Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[JoshuaTree]

Here's the most zoomed out image I could find of the RAV in the ditch.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EARE-bTVAAAoi4L?format=jpg&name=large

No offence intended at all, but do you have the actual media link that includes this photo.
The reason I am inquiring is because I do not see any flames https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924 (taken by Billy Beardy first on scene), nor charring of the vehicle https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

It certainly does look like same vehicle and surroundings, just wondering why there are no flames/charring.

I'm also in agreement with you that the vehicle did in fact slide off the road - do you think maybe Bryer was driving at that point?

 

[FactFinder3000]

Here's a link that shows what I was talking about:

- soil looks loose

- back wheel looks partially buried

- looks like it could be bottomed out

Burnt vehicle found in northern Manitoba used by suspects in B.C. homicides: RCMP

 

[tabitha111]

https://www.terracestandard.com/new...7DUZGq7NmyxOTkHcwhEdZuTENlCUVxTm7q5DFHk6OAgzc Sept 3, 2019
Stretch of road longest in BC without cell service

"many residents are still fearful and hesitant to help anyone along the road"
Re: Dease Lake area

 

[copkid]

What's interesting is that a family that was nearby picking berries drove over in their truck, to see what the smoke was all about. K and B easily could have killed them for their vehicle.

This is strange, Billy Beardy states him and his family waited for 45 minutes before anyone came, B/K had to be fairly close by.

Makes me wonder, especially, now that we know K/B had weapons, why did they not take their truck?

Mr Beardy states he was with his family, were there children? Was there too many people for BS/KM?

I also notice in the cbc article posted by @JoshuaTree:
Bill Beardy states he feels the Rav4 was "pushed" into the ditch.

 

[SovereignSnake]

No offence intended at all, but do you have the actual media link that includes this photo.
The reason I am inquiring is because I do not see any flames https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924 (taken by Billy Beardy first on scene), nor charring of the vehicle https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

It certainly does look like same vehicle and surroundings, just wondering why there are no flames/charring.

I'm also in agreement with you that the vehicle did in fact slide off the road - do you think maybe Bryer was driving at that point?

Oh no worries. I actually found the photo on Twitter. I'm thinking this photo was taken the following morning when they pulled it out because it's cloudy and obviously not on fire vs the first image that went up the evening of the 22nd, it looked like hazy early evening sun and still burning. Bryer driving? It's a possibility but based on everything we've seen and read, I don't think Bryer drove even once during the whole journey. Honest opinion, I think he was scared to drive and trusted Kam. My guess with Kam, he was either exhausted, distracted or driving too fast on that kind of road and lost control. Maybe even Bryer was being a bad navigator and barked out a random change in direction startling Kam? Or combination of all of the above.

Speculating: July 23rd or 24th shortly before they pulled it out onto the road.
Kat Slepian on Twitter

July 22nd when it was first discovered.
Northern B.C. homicides: Teen murder suspects subject of a nationwide manhunt

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yeah, it's a gravel road, and if they made a last minute decision to turn down that side road, they easily could have slid off the road. It's the only thing that really makes sense, frankly. That's just not a spot where they would choose to go off-roading.

 

[NJSleuth91]

This is strange, Billy Beardy states him and his family waited for 45 minutes before anyone came, B/K had to be fairly close by.

Makes me wonder, especially, now that we know K/B had weapons, why did they not take their truck?

Mr Beardy states he was with his family, were there children? Was there too many people for BS/KM?

I also notice in the cbc article posted by @JoshuaTree:
Bill Beardy states he feels the Rav4 was "pushed" into the ditch.

I think that, whatever their original motive for killing was, they were done with killing at that point. They probably could have found another opportunity to kill someone and take their vehicle, if they wanted, with the remote areas they were driving in, and buy some more time. But the speed with which they traveled to Gillam, indicates they most likely didn't even attempt to do this. Or if the objective was killing, they could have waited for the cops to show up and tried to take some of them out before killing themselves. But I think they were just in flight mode at that point and I don't think they wanted to kill another person at that point.

This criminologist seems to agree:
Were B.C. killings planned in advance? Criminologist has doubts

 

[Zella]

I'm of two minds about the camper truck. If Kam graduated last year and his first and ONLY job was at Walmart for five weeks along with Bryer, then I feel letting him take the camper was a tad indulgent, imo. If Kam did nothing aside from gaming and playing airsoft in the bush for the last year, then I feel that speaks volumes about his ambition or lack of it in life.

However, we have no idea what, if anything Kam did in the year after his grad, it's quite possible he worked elsewhere before the Walmart gig and if that's the case, then I can see nothing wrong with parents allowing a 19 year old to take the truck to try and find work.

I actually suspect Kam's employment at WM predated Bryer's for a few months. One reason is some articles have reported they worked there several months and others 5 weeks. Based on the message from Bryer's dad about a second pay check, I think Bryer was definitely only there for five weeks, but I'm wondering if the reports about several months are from Kam's time there.

Another reason I think he was employed there longer is Bryer's grandma's neighbor said she never remembered seeing Kam at her house or on their street, but she remembered him from WM and even shared an anecdote of him being helpful. I don't think an employee who's only been on the job a month, especially one who only ever worked night shifts, is going to be that memorable to a customer. But one who has been there several months? Definitely. In fact, the article where she talks about Kam and WM mentions "months" at WM.
RCMP continue search for suspects in three B.C. slayings

In a way, I would be surprised if he wasn't working pretty soon after his graduation in 2018. I suspect his parents would be fine with a job at WM but not him just sitting around playing video games all day once he finished school. MOO

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Could they have run short of ammunition? Maybe they were holding back to save what they had for the end, if they hadn't been able to replenish their supply on the road.

 

[Tilly23]

Are teens their age familiar with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?

Could "Sundance" have been an appealing destination for a "last stand" where a pair of outlaws end it all together?

MOO

 

[Jan424]

Weeks and weeks ago I read that they ended up in a ditch because they had taken a turn too quickly on the gravel road and ended up in the ditch. I don't have a link, unfortunately, as it has been weeks, now.

Could it be that the SUV would not start after they ran off the road?

There was even speculation awhile back here on WS that they also wrecked the truck/camper before torching it.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Could they have run short of ammunition? Maybe they were holding back to save what they had for the end, if they hadn't been able to replenish their supply on the road.

If this was planned, not having extra ammunition seems like a pretty basic misstep. I mean, it is these guys, and they had a "talent" for basic missteps, but I feel like anyone could figure out to bring a bunch of extra ammunition if their plan was to kill a bunch of people.

 

[musicaljoke]

... Yeah it seems like Vancouver Island is almost as expensive as New Jersey! I also think they were upper middle class but not insanely rich or anything.

Someone said something on here about how in Port Alberni, young people are kind of expected to make their own way in the world, like it has kind of a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" culture.

Me either. But probably their parents were hoping they would grow up a bit and be able to do something, if not heavy manual labor, maybe even decide to go to college.

I could definitely see this happening. And maybe they went into a dark spiral because of feeling pressure and a lack of options about their future.

All JMO.

The average price for a detached house in Vancouver is $1.400,000.00. The city has the second highest housing prices in North America. I don't think that there would have been any expectation that the suspects would get a job and buy a house. But perhaps they were expected to get a job and live in the back yard in the camper truck. moo

Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver - Statistics

 

[musicaljoke]

I honestly don't think there was a plan for their escape. Looking at the route they traveled, it looks to me like they just picked a random direction and traveled in that direction until they couldn't anymore, and then walked until they couldn't anymore. I think it was moment to moment thinking. I think they were in denial that they were out of options and this was a process of accepting that their lives were over.

If they had planned to live as fugitives in the wilderness, I don't think they would have picked that particular location. Even if they had managed to get enough food to survive somehow, they would have died in a couple of months as soon as it got cold...it gets insanely cold there.

Last year, a woman drove her vehicle into the lake near my home because she was following her GPS and it had her go down a boat ramp, which she did.

That makes me wonder if the suspects got stuck on the not-a-road in Cold Lake AB because they were using a GPS which took them there. Perhaps it was an undeveloped road allowance that showed up on the maps. If I remember correctly, there were comments made by the folks who got the suspects unstuck, that people were often driving into the mud there.

Is there a way to check if a GPS would lead a person down that wrong path? If we knew that they were using a GPS, then it could mean they headed to Gillam deliberately.

 

[KR72]

Someone said something on here about how in Port Alberni, young people are kind of expected to make their own way in the world, like it has kind of a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" culture.

People love to say that, but what do they really mean? IMO it's sometimes just a dig at kids who live at home and go to university/college, acquire a trade or have parental/financial support which KM appears to have had.

I heard a conversation recently about a young man who decided to move to Winnipeg to attend university. The conversation was surprisingly negative and it was said that, "he never knew the meaning of hard work anyway," and the old "bootstraps" line. I quietly wished the young man (unknown to me) all the success in the world and hope he shows those fools one day!!

 

[Chingaling]

No offence intended at all, but do you have the actual media link that includes this photo.
The reason I am inquiring is because I do not see any flames https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924 (taken by Billy Beardy first on scene), nor charring of the vehicle https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

It certainly does look like same vehicle and surroundings, just wondering why there are no flames/charring.

I'm also in agreement with you that the vehicle did in fact slide off the road - do you think maybe Bryer was driving at that point?

How did the RAV get upside down.it was upright while on fire?

 

[Inkblot]

I think that, whatever their original motive for killing was, they were done with killing at that point. They probably could have found another opportunity to kill someone and take their vehicle, if they wanted, with the remote areas they were driving in, and buy some more time. But the speed with which they traveled to Gillam, indicates they most likely didn't even attempt to do this. Or if the objective was killing, they could have waited for the cops to show up and tried to take some of them out before killing themselves. But I think they were just in flight mode at that point and I don't think they wanted to kill another person at that point.

This criminologist seems to agree:
Were B.C. killings planned in advance? Criminologist has doubts

That's a good article - thanks for that, and I agree with your summation.

 

[musicaljoke]

How did the RAV get upside down.it was upright while on fire?

Probably rolled by the tow truck so it could be dragged out of the ditch. After the fire it didn't have any tires, so dragging it on the roof would have been easier. moo

 

[LadyL]

No offence intended at all, but do you have the actual media link that includes this photo.
The reason I am inquiring is because I do not see any flames https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924 (taken by Billy Beardy first on scene), nor charring of the vehicle https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

It certainly does look like same vehicle and surroundings, just wondering why there are no flames/charring.

I'm also in agreement with you that the vehicle did in fact slide off the road - do you think maybe Bryer was driving at that point?

there are flames in your first link

 

[NJSleuth91]

The average price for a detached house in Vancouver is $1.400,000.00. The city has the second highest housing prices in North America. I don't think that there would have been any expectation that the suspects would get a job and buy a house. But perhaps they were expected to get a job and live in the back yard in the camper truck. moo

Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver - Statistics

Port Alberni is cheaper than Vancouver though. People listed real estate prices for Port Alberni here a while back, and I think it was slightly cheaper than average real estate in NJ.

I don't think anyone was thinking that far ahead at that point. What 18 and 19 year olds are thinking of buying a house these days? Plus a lot of young people don't even want to be property owners anymore. I think their parents wanted them to be taking steps towards independence and fulfillment.

That's a good article - thanks for that, and I agree with your summation.

A big reason why I suspect this was unplanned, and possibly a robbery or altercation gone wrong, is because nearly all the opinions I've seen from people who either have worked with troubled teenagers or have a degree in criminology, have been along those lines. JMO.