Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[LoisLane]

Good summary on Wiki:
2019 Northern British Columbia murders - Wikipedia

 

[NJSleuth91]

I’m not sure “confession” is the right word here. Maybe “bragging” is more appropriate? Because if they “confessed” to any other person prior to fleeing, I can’t think of one good reason they wouldn’t have come forward and confessed to police as well.

Confession insinuates acknowledge of guilt yet that wasn’t a factor if they went on to murder LD and steal his car.

I don’t think they told anyone.

Confession is just a technical term meaning owning up to one's role in a crime. Like when the police get a confession from a suspect. The term does not necessarily have a moral value judgment of whether the person felt guilty or not.

 

[Esprite]

Good summary on Wiki:
2019 Northern British Columbia murders - Wikipedia

Thank you for sharing this excellent summary.

 

[Jan424]

. I can't help but feel if they were talking to other kids round their age something would have leaked by now.
Also, I don't mean to make them sound like social outcasts or anything, but most of the kids we heard from that the media interviewed were just kind of fair weather friends and coworkers. No friend has come forward that truly knew them on a deeper level like Kam and Bryer new one another. I get the impression their social circle was mostly a two man show and that's perfectly okay.

SBM
THIS...^^^^
I posted similar thoughts how dubious I was about this type of news not getting out especially since it’s hard for me to believe anyone they said anything whatsoever to could keep that to themselves. Also I thought the same... what friends? Aside from the casual friends maybe they occasionally hung around with, I don’t think there are others they have any connection to that could warrant staying in touch with that way. All speculation of course and JMO

 

[Valiant]

I would take anything on Wikipedia with a grain of salt.

Notice how there is no footnote to a source for the text about the handguns? I'd consider it rumor.

 

[Hanami]

re:
By August 12, an autopsy report from Winnipeg had confirmed that the two bodies found belonged to the wanted suspects and that they had died due to self-inflicted gunshot wounds.[38] Two handguns were located near the bodies and were to be tested for a ballistic match to the three murders.

Finding handguns is news to me. Implications are immense.

I think that Wikipedia authors may not always be as precise with language as they should when paraphrasing sources. It can lead to confusion and should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

I have only seen reference to two “firearms” in MSM or police statements and think the term “handgun” was used here carelessly.

 

[Inkblot]

Perhaps 'feeling sorry ' for the killers is a bit disrespectful , really. These murders were brutal, and that is often forgotten in the rush to try and figure out what made two 'nice little boys' turn into ruthless and determined murderers, one of their victims an unarmed and unwary woman, and it could be that they were just born killers, waiting for their moment. It does happen, it doesn't need a 'trigger' , or a 'reason', or 'bad parenting' or any and all,.. it just is.

In this case, perhaps, it just was. They wanted to kill, they went out to kill and they killed.

In my opinion, I liken it (somewhat) to the case in Victoria, BC of Cameron Moffat and Kruse Wellwood (accused of killing Kimberly Proctor). The thought pattern could be similar. Their ages were 16 and 17 and they bonded over video games.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

Wellwood said he remembered calling Moffat sometime before the killing to discuss his fantasy, and that’s when he said they began “playing ideas off each other”.

“That’s when it became a lot more real,” he said. “It was planned but I don’t think either of us considered the reality of it.”

“I know for myself it had to do with getting the gratification I was looking for,” Wellwood said, and added at the time he felt there was power in taking a life.

“It was an emptiness in my soul. I didn’t have a purpose in life,” Wellwood said.

A priest who spoke in support of him at the hearing later said Wellwood has become an Orthodox Christian while in jail.

“I think I ultimately felt powerless,” Wellwood said. “I wanted to be powerful.”

Here is a link to the entire article: Shocking details emerge as Vancouver Island teen's killer denied day parole

 

[Pyecraft]

Statement from the Assistant Commissioner Jane MacLatchy on the reduction of resources deployed in the Gillam area | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
To clarify:

This official report is written in the moment, without the hindsight of later investigation, which I find quite informative. Facts, as they are seen by rcmp at the above report issue time include:

The manhunt begins on the afternoon of burning rav4 discovery. Its is continuous throughout the night and for the coming days using all equipment/manpower available. My observation, following any cursory glimpse over official rcmp reports for Manitoba, is that they are far and away the most experienced force in the country at this stuff. They seem to be in continuous manhunt mode.

They conclude an exhausting, comprehensive hunt with a warning that the two suspects may 'have had some sort of assistance to flee the area'. In other words, 'if we couldn't find them, they're not here'. I doubt they issue such an admission if it wasn't opined to be true - we have learned from the burning vehicles, there's no smoke without fire. So if that's a real 'possibility' from the experts, we might also presume the possibility that the suspects were met after all, perhaps whisked away from detection, only to be turfed or escape back into the bush once the rcmp search was 'scaled down'. In the interest of sleuthing, why do we choose to accept one possibility while dismissing the other?

I also doubt that such a hard-bitten experienced crew like the Manitoba force would bring in an expensive infra-red plane if, as suggested here, it wouldn't work 'through the trees'. Hiding under a piece of aluminum which was once a boat, would offer little protection as such a huge manpower worked below, flushing out every heat-source in its path.

We have repeatedly believed the local muskeg to be unnavigable, but one local interview posted here yesterday said there were trails and cabins used for hunting. If you were fleeing a burning vehicle then surely, these trails would be the pathway of choice, including the professionals. Also, these two would not have been in the best of shape like their hunters.

An assumption of the maximum distance these suspects could have reached from the vehicle made by the commanding officer, in all his experience must have been measured . The well-tooled, highly-armed force, including sniffer dogs would have easily scoured every trail and cabin in that radius, before scaling down the operation. The 8km (corpse location) factor is not in play at the time of this report which only adds to its integrity.

Finally then the rcmp operation in Manitoba proved exceptionally excellent, and re-established their public persona world-wide, to 'always get their man'. It was sorely needed following their very public lack-luster reaction in BC, before the first victims were identified, as non-locals.

 

[LoisLane]

Thanks for the link. The Wikipedia article states specifically hand guns were found with the bodies of BS & KM. This was never reported via MSM, correct? The only mention I remember regarding type of firearms was rifles from one MSM source. (It also incorrectly states that the bodies of LF & CD were found by Trevor Pierre, the highway worker, and not the trucker.)

First time I have seen the handgun reference too.

Overall, the summary is in neat order, but could use some work.
I haven’t had a chance to check the resources.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Another bit of info that stood out to me in the article @MistyWaters shared:

Rob Creasser, another retired RCMP officer, was hopeful the guns could be linked to one or both of the B.C. crime scenes.

"They can do ballistics and determine that yes, that was the same gun used at the crime scene involving the two young people," Creasser said.

This retired officer alludes, but still no mention if Leonard's death wast the result of gunfire. I just find this so strange that other than that one Australian news outlet, (whom I also think misspoke) there has been no mention of his cause of death or even a confirmed direct link to Chynna and Lucas' murders. This also remains the reason I'm still unconvinced Kam and Bryer were responsible for all three murders. Also, that Wikipedia article mentions "handguns" I wonder if they're basing this off of the number of shell casings they found at the murder scene of Chynna and Lucas. Or once again a media outlet misspoke and declared a handgun was used. It was six shell casings as reported. In my experience with rifles and shotguns, rattling off six rounds in quick succession is not something one tends to do. Rifles and shotguns are more of a one shot to knock something down, a second shot to make sure it stays down. I apologize if that sounds graphic, but I was thinking about the years I used to go hunting with family and friends in Wisconsin (Age 12 to 25.) It's been almost 11 years now since I last went but I still remember those days and shooting that many rounds at say a deer was not something I ever did. Goodness, even when I missed I don't think I fired more than 2 shots. I have to admit, when I heard "six shell casings" I also immediately thought handgun.
~More opinion and yet another story I wanted to share.

Murder suspects died of 'suicides by gunfire,' autopsy results suggest: BC RCMP

 

[Kiantra]

Good summary on Wiki:
2019 Northern British Columbia murders - Wikipedia

Thank you.

Both victims were found in a ditch close to their van, with their bodies having visible gunshot wounds and laying five feet apart from one another.[11] Both were laying north, with their heads facing west.[12] The van's back doors were left open with their windows smashed, according to Pierre.[12] On 19 July, a burnt-out pickup truck was discovered south of the Stikine River Bridge on Highway 37.[13] The body of Vancouver resident Leonard Dyck was found two kilometres south of the vehicle fire, with "similar circumstances" as Fowler and Deese (whose bodies were found 470 kilometres away).[14]

Backdoors open and windows smashed? And, “similar circumstances”? I don’t think that is entirely correct is it? Although, it does lead you to think a gun was also used to kill LD.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Statement from the Assistant Commissioner Jane MacLatchy on the reduction of resources deployed in the Gillam area | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
To clarify:

[...]

I also doubt that such a hard-bitten experienced crew like the Manitoba force would bring in an expensive infra-red plane if, as suggested here, it wouldn't work 'through the trees'. Hiding under a piece of aluminum which was once a boat, would offer little protection as such a huge manpower worked below, flushing out every heat-source in its path.

Even though infrared detection won't work through dense trees, it is still useful to search for them using it. Much of the terrain is not dense trees. Just look at the photos of the burnt RAV4 for an example. Bush, or short trees, will not hide them. In order to avoid detection you need either a thick tree trunk, or many layers of leaves overhead. So if the subjects happen to be in an area without dense trees when the plane comes along, they're going to be spotted.

Also, if the subjects are foolish enough to keep moving while the plane is flying overhead, they would probably be detected, because even an area of thick trees usually has areas of lesser density.

I suspect the need to maintain dense tree cover could be a reason they only made it 8k away. Overall, from what I've seen of the area via photos, the trees don't look very ideal for hiding from infrared sensors.

We have repeatedly believed the local muskeg to be unavigable, but one local interview posted here yesterday said there were trails and cabins used for hunting. If you were fleeing a burning vehicle then surely, these trails would be the pathway of choice, including the professionals. Also, these two would not have been in the best of shape like their hunters.

[...]

Yeah, I think the overall conditions have been highly overstated. I posted here before that the area is covered with rough roads and trails that are easily seen on satellite photos. But they can't just run willy-nilly down the roads and trails, or they're going to be spotted.

It seems these fugitives hid in plain sight, almost. They were just a few hundred meters off the main road. They basically went nowhere. Quite amazing, actually.

I suspect the RCMP didn't do very much actual bush hunting. Too high a risk of an officer losing their life.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Statement from the Assistant Commissioner Jane MacLatchy on the reduction of resources deployed in the Gillam area | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
To clarify:

[...]

I also doubt that such a hard-bitten experienced crew like the Manitoba force would bring in an expensive infra-red plane if, as suggested here, it wouldn't work 'through the trees'. Hiding under a piece of aluminum which was once a boat, would offer little protection as such a huge manpower worked below, flushing out every heat-source in its path.

Even though the infrared detection won't work through dense trees, it is still useful to search for them using it. Much of the terrain is not dense trees. Just look at the photos of the burnt RAV4 for an example. Bush, or short trees, will not hide them. In order to avoid detection you need either a thick tree trunk, or many layers of leaves overhead. So if the subjects happen to be in an area without dense trees when the plane comes along, they're going to be spotted.

Also, if the subjects are foolish enough to keep moving while the plane is flying overhead, they would probably be detected, because even an area of thick trees usually has areas of lesser density.

I suspect the need to maintain dense tree cover could be a reason they only made it 8k away. Overall, from what I've seen of the area via photos, the trees don't look very ideal for hiding from infrared sensors.

It's kind of sad that that giant, noisy airplane is the best Canada's military could do. Don't they have silent drones or satellite technology?

We have repeatedly believed the local muskeg to be unnavigable, but one local interview posted here yesterday said there were trails and cabins used for hunting. If you were fleeing a burning vehicle then surely, these trails would be the pathway of choice, including the professionals. Also, these two would not have been in the best of shape like their hunters.

[...]

Yeah, I think the overall conditions have been highly overstated. I posted here before that the area is covered with rough roads and trails that are easily seen on satellite photos. But they can't just run willy-nilly down the roads and trails, or they're going to be spotted.

It seems these fugitives hid in plain sight, almost. They were just a few hundred meters off the main road. They basically went nowhere. Quite amazing, actually.

I suspect the RCMP didn't do too much actual bush hunting. Too high a risk of an officer losing their life.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It seems these fugitives hid in plain sight, almost. They were just a few hundred meters off the main road. They basically went nowhere. Quite amazing, actually.

That is amazing. The news articles made it seem like it was impenetrable terrain. I wonder if they killed themselves much sooner than we think, and the RCMP said "a few days" just to not reveal too much as usual.

I suspect the RCMP didn't do too much actual bush hunting. Too high a risk of an officer losing their life.

One of those Boston Dynamics robots probably could have done the job. And, if equipped with speakers, could be used for negotiations.

 

[Kiantra]

Update: Father of B.C. teen murder suspect allowed to see video of son's ‘last will and testament’

Now he’s seen it.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Update: Father of B.C. teen murder suspect allowed to see video of son's ‘last will and testament’

Now he’s seen it.

Good. The RCMP should have just allowed it from the beginning -- it just caused them more issues in the end anyway to withhold it.

Also, if they allowed him to see it, I take it the report must be coming out pretty soon, then? JMO. EDIT: NDAs don't mean much if the person has very few assets.

 

[KR72]

Some people want to help others, who have flaws. They don't distance themselves (thank goodness, or we wouldn't have nurses, doctors or teachers). Not all of us automatically distance ourselves from people who others find distasteful. It's not "normal" to do so, not for all humans. Some people do distance themselves, some of us do not.

Sorry, but if I was a teen girl and a classmate threatened to behead me, I'd distance myself. If I were a teen boy into gaming and my friend began to take aspects of gaming too far and fantasize about the game being real, or joining a militia, and gave me the creeps, I'd also distance myself. Do you think the girl should have forgotten about the threat to try and help BS? The boy who was weirded out by BS's "extreme" gaming, should he have ignored his feelings and remained friends with him?

If I were a teen and someone I knew was into Nazi paraphernalia, invoked the KKK for an online username, amongst who knows what other dark things you bet I'd distance myself from that person as well. I certainly wouldn't get a couple of firearms and then go on a road trip with them. Would you? Would anyone here?

My point is, a normal person would not tolerate such behaviour from a peer. I'm not talking about a person who works in a professional capacity here, I'm talking about Kam. His continued association with Bryer means that he accepted those things that you said are distasteful, and imo, it's because he was as messed up as Bryer was, not because he was trying to help him.

 

[LoisLane]

Update: Father of B.C. teen murder suspect allowed to see video of son's ‘last will and testament’

Now he’s seen it.

IMO RCMP were delaying the video to AS as long as they could but I bet they knew perfectly well that he had rights to it. I’m curious how long the non-disclosure is in effect for.

This must mean the public will hear more soon too.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Oh wow! They actually let him view the entire thing, not just the 30 seconds.

‘It’s not an easy thing’: Father of B.C. murder suspect watched entire video recorded before son’s suicide

Yeah this report must be coming out really soon. Also I guess that rules out that Bryer specifically excluded his dad from the video, which I never believed for a second.

 

[tabitha111]

I am wondering how long AS can keep it to himself. Anyone think that some news station or news reporter will be offering him big money for what he saw in the video?