Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[whiterhino]

Can someone point me in the direction of posts regarding Kam and Bryers' online presence?

I checked out their Steam accounts and saw that KM deleted his. Also saw the screenshots and messages on BS's. I'm extremely curious to know what other things they got up to online, what their search history and Youtube history looks like.

I've also been wondering, is it possible that these two have done other sinister things prior to all this? We know Bryer told some girl he wanted to cut off her head and nothing was seemingly done about it. I'm wondering what was going on in Kams' mind? Wasn't there some history of mental health issues or something mentioned?

I can't help but think that Kam calling himself the "Angel Of Death" was an indication of something dark. As some posters have said, the parents house was up for sale. Something is nagging me saying there could be God only knows what in those woods around that house?! A lot of serial killers start out killing small animals and often have some kind of experience with hunting. Not saying anything in particular per se, just... wondering out loud.

Throughout this whole case, I keep being reminded of Luka Magnotta for some reason. The online element, the red flags that were not taken seriously enough, the threats made specifically pertaining to beheading, the Russian/N@zi elements, going on the run, recording things, severe mental health issues, having multiple usernames... there's just so many similarities. Especially the bold parts.

Is there any way to organize the threads under one larger thread or a way to organize discussions? Or is it a matter of waiting for more results from RCMP? I'm just asking because there are so many different conversations being had about so many different aspects of this case, it would be so much easier to search through threads if they were in categories as is often done here on WS with other cases. Jmo.

Apologies if my questions are repetitive, I've been lowkey in the thread but there's too many to read through.

 

[srper2]

@Moriarty thank you for posting that link. I had no idea they investigated a third scene. So Kam and Bryer were camped just outside of Dease Lake for a number of days. Then possibly asked to move. I have to wonder how long they had set up camp at the spot where they torched the Dodge and Camper. Just seeing the image of that dutch oven set up (also not burned interestingly) tells me they must have been there for at least a couple nights, but who knows, maybe it was just Thursday night?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-killed-missing-alaska-highway-1.5220571

I am pretty sure that is not a "dutch oven", it is a stand holding a sieve investigators are using to go through ashes. it explained in one of the reports that showed this picture.

 

[MsBetsy]

Even if it were, FOIA requests often take months if not longer. They’re not granted immediately and “private” information is usually blacked out.

Can you imagine the hay-day criminals would have if they could request information in police investigative files under FOIA? Even considering more liberal Sunshine laws in some states in the US, police investigations are always confidential which is why they often to refer to not releasing details as “the importance of the integrity of an investigation”.

Most recently they’ve said the investigation is still ongoing. Toxicology tests often take weeks. We just have to wait.

This is what I have always thought, too, but I'm confused about what LE is required to release because on another case I am following a poster said the LE is "mandated legally" to release a 911 call to the public. It's a missing persons case and there is no evidence of foul play, but people think the 911 call (made after she went missing) should be released.

This is a murder investigation, and in other cases records have been requested and if there is a court order finding that it is in the public's best interest to have the information, it is sometimes made public.
Although must often, it is not released in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.

So I guess I'm still confused about when it is the public's right to know.

Not that it's a big deal, I just want to understand the circumstances in which the public has a "right" to the information. Imo

 

[Jan424]

As mentioned, for some reason I also thought it’d been mentioned the investigators made the tripod to sift through the ashes but I’m unable to find the link.

Oh then maybe that is the case. I’ll see if I can find something.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Haven't checked this thread in sometime, * twiddling fingers* for the RCMP report.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is what I have always thought, too, but I'm confused about what LE is required to release because on another case I am following a poster said the LE is "mandated legally" to release a 911 call to the public. It's a missing persons case and there is no evidence of foul play, but people think the 911 call (made after she went missing) should be released.

This is a murder investigation, and in other cases records have been requested and if there is a court order finding that it is in the public's best interest to have the information, it is sometimes made public.
Although must often, it is not released in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.

So I guess I'm still confused about when it is the public's right to know.

Not that it's a big deal, I just want to understand the circumstances in which the public has a "right" to the information. Imo

Yes often the media attempts to obtain documents public records such as 911 calls in locations where they’re considered to be public records by law. In Canada our Privacy Laws far outweigh FOIA.

Families of victims have rights and names and cause of deaths require their consent prior to being released by police to the media.
“Police added they will not be releasing the names of the deceased out of respect for the family.”
Brampton mother and 13-year-old son killed in stabbing, father found dead by suicide: Police

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh then maybe that is the case. I’ll see if I can find something.

JudgeJudi posted the link just above along with a photo of it assembled in their immediate work area.

“An RCMP officer sift through evidence from the scene of the burnt-out truck on B.C.'s Highway 37. “
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...ng-twice-about-hiking-camping-trips-1.5223024

 

[Jan424]

View attachment 203899

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...ng-twice-about-hiking-camping-trips-1.5223024

Well, that settles that about the "dutch oven". It was more interesting to think it been a dutch oven K&B put together themselves. IMO

 

[10ofRods]

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

We are entitled to know if the rcmp believe the dead suspects were responsible for the murders, as citizens of the Province where the crimes were committed. We have a right to public safety, and do not deserve an unnerving silence from the people we pay to enforce our people's laws.

The rcmp obligation is to their half of a contract agreement - we the tax-payer, pay up readily and in return their obligation should be for an honest explanation of how they've earned their part of the agreement by enforcing our laws. Their silence speaks of an arrogant disregard.

If there are no other suspects, then yes they really do need to tell us definitively that our roads are now safe and the killers have been caught. Period. No reason to hedge your bets or fudge the language if you are confident of the truth. But, its looking evermore that they're not confident in their suspicions and are having trouble joining the dots to prove guilt, beyond public scrutiny.

Perhaps you are correct in that a law enforcement agency be allowed exist outside responsibility.
Just that I can't shake off, expecting a little accountability for my tax dollar.

ITA. And transparency for the system of justice. Cases ought not to be opened and closed outside the public view. Justice is supposed to be administered and one of its aspects is instructive. Closure comes from transparency, and confidence in LE is based on transparency. If LE loses the confidence of some of the public by disregarding public trust, so well expressed in your post, it makes its own job much harder. Facts that may have gone into building this case surely include assistance by the public in noticing the crime itself. People need to know that their own eyes are needed in law enforcement, and the police do a separate job of piecing things together.

It's not a magical process. People need to know how it worked and how these two men came to be suspects in this tragic chain of events.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is a screenshot from the video at 00:40. It’s not of the rest stop where the professors body was found because that was quite muddy. And it’s not adjacent to where the truck burned because there’s no white tarp when the camera panned the wreck. But it’s definitely a site of interest just off the side of the road, that somehow connects with the murder investigation of LD.

Who was B.C. murder victim Leonard Dyck?

I believe it is the site where LD’s body was found and that’s why you see the white tarp. His body can’t be adjacent to where the truck was found because the truck was 2 kms further down the road.

I’ve included two screenshots from the YouTube video linked below.

1) Tyre tracks and footprints in muddy ground and the ground has been marked in orange in several places.

2) LD crime scene, crime scene tape, tarp in full sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8TCrG4Hhpo

3) My screenshot of LD's crime scene.

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1738419

4) Your screenshot showing both police cars.

You took yours at 00:40 but I took mine at 00:38. You’ll notice two things straight away. First, mine shows tyre marks on the road turning straight into the crime scene, and second, the crime scene is now in heavy shade as is most of the road. In your image it is obvious one or each of the police cars has its headlights on so it was obviously taken much later in the day compared to the image of the tyre tracks in the mud, and the ground has probably had many hours in which to dry.

In pic 2 the tarp has been placed loosely on the ground. Some people think the tarp was used to cover his body. Bodies are left undisturbed until forensic photographs are taken from every angle and then placed in a body bag to avoid contamination. This is why Trevor Pierre was sent to secure the scene where Lucas and Chynna were found and they lay uncovered even after police had arrived at the scene.

I believe the tarp was used to cover all the tyre tracks once the body had been removed and the tracks had been photographed and investigated. The surrounding area could then be investigated. I also believe these tracks were made when the ground was much wetter as it still looks very damp compared to the dry areas in the second image. In the third pic the tarp has been stretched taut and is weighted down in several places on each side. All the evidence markers have been removed and the crime scene tape is now lying flat on the ground at the very edge of the road. It is also possible they took casts of the tracks and possibly footprints and were waiting for them to dry.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm extremely curious to know what other things they got up to online, what their search history and Youtube history looks like.

We have no information on any of this at this time. A news article stated Kam had a Youtube channel for gaming, but it wasn't linked and nobody has been able to find it. I'm sure the RCMP has a ton of information on their internet activity though (probably why the report is taking so long).

I wish someone had archived Bryer's Instagram after the 19th but before it was scrubbed, because I've heard there used to be more stuff on there. Unfortunately I didn't follow this case until the 24th and a lot of information had been taken down by then. Either way the data is stored in the servers for a while after it's deleted, so I'm sure the RCMP has it.

Wasn't there some history of mental health issues or something mentioned?

Kam has no confirmed history of mental health issues that we know of. In fact, no information has come out about either of them ever being diagnosed with anything beyond Bryer having "learning difficulties." We have speculated on it extensively though.

I can't help but think that Kam calling himself the "Angel Of Death" was an indication of something dark.

It could be relevant, or not. Angel of Death is one of the most famous metal songs of all time, and teenagers often have usernames along those lines. But, that song is also about Josef Mengele, and if Bryer had an interest in Nazi stuff, Kam probably did too. So who knows. However he had that username for a few years so I don't know how relevant it was.

As some posters have said, the parents house was up for sale.

It was up for sale before the murders? That's the first I'm hearing of that.

A lot of serial killers start out killing small animals and often have some kind of experience with hunting.

So far we have no evidence of any of those things, although it's possible.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Well, that settles that about the "dutch oven". It was more interesting to think it been a dutch oven K&B put together themselves. IMO

Very true! I never realized they were using it to sift through things. I thought maybe it was the remnants of charred food they were knocking through it. I also never looked closely at the tray. (In the video I attached, which I'm sure most of us have all seen several times, I was way more fascinated by the zoomed out shots of the pullouts where they found the pickup and then Leonard vs the tripod.) I thought it was some kind of metal mesh on the tray but it looks more like plastic/fabric tarp like netting on closer inspection. I agree, I was very impressed with their construction skills had they made that for cooking. Also, impressive the RCMP investigators would construct something like that for sifting through ashes. Perhaps they even put it together there at the site. So we can probably conclude also Kam and Bryer may have not been camped at the "burn site" for more than say just Thursday night. So they drove out of town South after the Super A sighting at 3pm and then headed down the 35 miles to the "burn site" and spent the night. But what happens during the night and day that followed on Friday is the bigger mystery.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Credit to @JudgeJudi for sharing this link and video above. I had never seen this video until now. I've seen those "dusk photos" but for whatever reason I completely glossed over them. So it looks like those photos (also the screen caps you shared above) were taken Friday night given the sun has set. It also gave me a better understanding of what side of the road these pullouts were located on. It would appear the both pullouts are on the West side of Hwy 37. (Other being the burn scene.) That was my hunch, but now I'm certain. I agree though, it sounds like their first priority was removing the body of Leonard, then getting the tire tracks and possible footprints covered with a tarp until they could get some daylight on the whole situation. Then in the photo with the reporter, the camera is facing North and I will wager since the police tape is there that video was shot Saturday round midday. Given the moisture in those tracks (the photos with the cones) it either rained Thursday/Thursday night and they preserved it under the tarp for them to still be that damp or it could have even rained Saturday morning again. The sky in the video with the reporter on Saturday looks like it had just rained hours earlier. However, those Friday dusk photos look like it was a mostly a clear, calm night. ~All speculation of course unless we can dig up weather reports from the area on the 18th, 19th and 20th.

Who was B.C. murder victim Leonard Dyck?

 

[Moriarty]

Just an FYI to anyone interested in this sort of thing, I came across this article today. It's not directly linked to this case, but it has interesting implications for any crime involving bodies.

Dead Bodies Move While Decomposing, Australian Researchers Find

 

[Jan424]

Very true! I never realized they were using it to sift through things. I thought maybe it was the remnants of charred food they were knocking through it. I also never looked closely at the tray. (In the video I attached, which I'm sure most of us have all seen several times, I was way more fascinated by the zoomed out shots of the pullouts where they found the pickup and then Leonard vs the tripod.) I thought it was some kind of metal mesh on the tray but it looks more like plastic/fabric tarp like netting on closer inspection. I agree, I was very impressed with their construction skills had they made that for cooking. Also, impressive the RCMP investigators would construct something like that for sifting through ashes. Perhaps they even put it together there at the site. So we can probably conclude also Kam and Bryer may have not been camped at the "burn site" for more than say just Thursday night. So they drove out of town South after the Super A sighting at 3pm and then headed down the 35 miles to the "burn site" and spent the night. But what happens during the night and day that followed on Friday is the bigger mystery.

@SovereignSnake , I am amazed at your ability to keep track of K&B's timeline, as nonsensical as it was. It sure helps me as I can't seem to sort thru all of those particular details (especially in your earlier post). Now as for K&B's cooking equipment, I'm going to guess they ate mostly on the fly (pork chops aside).

 

[FactFinder3000]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Yes, I am feeling frustrated. I can't imagine just what they are waiting for. People have been making excuses, but I just don't agree. Is it possible the videos are so messed up that they just don't even know what to say?

I admit that I have trouble articulating just why they should release their findings. It seems self-evident to me. The general public needs closure. The rumors need to be quashed.

Here's what Toronto police chief had to say about the report that they published:
"Toronto police Chief Mark Saunders said in June that police took the "unprecedented step" of releasing their findings in the year-long probe out of compassion for the families and in recognition of the widespread impact the attack had on the community."

source: Toronto shooting survivor says details helped her as RCMP mum on B.C. cases

It took them a year, though, in that case. I have a feeling we're in for a long wait. I thought I could apply a little pressure via this website. Maybe not the greatest idea I've ever had.

 

[Grouper]

Not to interrupt the conversation above but I’m just trying to review the timelines and am a bit confused — so B and K left home on the 12th, and reached the area of Liard Hot Springs (or 20km south of there, at least) on the 14th?

That’s approx. a 24 hour journey, with no stops at all. If that is the case, then their relentlessness blows my mind (not applauding, just.... baffled).

I’ve looked at a few different timelines and if they did murder C and L, then they drove for a day straight before doing so. Apologies if this has already been covered as nauseum.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes, I am feeling frustrated. I can't imagine just what they are waiting for. People have been making excuses, but I just don't agree.

It's been about five weeks. That's really not very long at all for a high-profile, multi-province, multi-agency, multi-suspect and victim investigation with no clear initial motive.

Is it possible the videos are so messed up that they just don't even know what to say?

I imagine these investigators have seen it all in their careers, so I doubt it. I also don't think Kam and Bryer filmed the actual murders -- that would have been difficult logistically, considering they didn't even know if the people they were attacking were armed. Also, the news articles said the videos were filmed while they were on the run in late July and early August, and they weren't on the run and it wasn't late July or early August when the murders happened.

It took them a year, though, in that case. I have a feeling we're in for a long wait.

I recommend reading the book Meltdown: Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It, specifically the part on how people are absolutely terrible at estimating how long a project will take before they undertake it. Just think of all the paperwork they have to do.

Also was going to mention this and forgot, if you guys look in BC criminal court records, there was a hearing on September 9th at the provincial court in Terrace BC, where a stay of proceedings was called on the second-degree murder charges against Kam and Bryer. That is standard procedure when the suspect dies. I assume it took that long due to needing to get a judge to be available to do it.

So things are moving along. Maybe not at the pace we want them to, but they are moving along.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Not to interrupt the conversation above but I’m just trying to review the timelines and am a bit confused — so B and K left home on the 12th, and reached the area of Liard Hot Springs (or 20km south of there, at least) on the 14th?

That’s approx. a 24 hour journey, with no stops at all. If that is the case, then their relentlessness blows my mind (not applauding, just.... baffled).

I’ve looked at a few different timelines and if they did murder C and L, then they drove for a day straight before doing so. Apologies if this has already been covered as nauseum.

They had three days to get there. They left the morning of the 12th so they had most of the 12th to drive. Then they had the 13th. Then Lucas and Chynna were murdered either late on the 14th or early on the 15th.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Not to interrupt the conversation above but I’m just trying to review the timelines and am a bit confused — so B and K left home on the 12th, and reached the area of Liard Hot Springs (or 20km south of there, at least) on the 14th?

That’s approx. a 24 hour journey, with no stops at all. If that is the case, then their relentlessness blows my mind (not applauding, just.... baffled).

I’ve looked at a few different timelines and if they did murder C and L, then they drove for a day straight before doing so. Apologies if this has already been covered as nauseum.

The murders were discovered on the morning of July 15. They left on the morning of the 12th. That gives them all day on the 12th, 13th, and 14th, to get to Liard Hot Springs.