Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[MistyWaters]

Not to interrupt the conversation above but I’m just trying to review the timelines and am a bit confused — so B and K left home on the 12th, and reached the area of Liard Hot Springs (or 20km south of there, at least) on the 14th?

That’s approx. a 24 hour journey, with no stops at all. If that is the case, then their relentlessness blows my mind (not applauding, just.... baffled).

I’ve looked at a few different timelines and if they did murder C and L, then they drove for a day straight before doing so. Apologies if this has already been covered as nauseum.

IIRC according to AS’s text, the two left early the morning of the 12th. And L&C became crime victims very late the 14th or early hours of the 15th. So if B&K left @7am, even to 12am July 15th that’s 65 hours according to my math. 24 hours driving time and two nights sleep, that leaves plenty of time for them to be in the Laird area the late night/early hours when the murders occurred IMO.

Purely speculation, they drove north towards Watson Lake, maybe intending to stop at Laird HS Prov Park for night, noticed the van and talked about it, agreed on the opportunity (whether they noticed occupants or not I don’t know) then later drove back to it during the very early hours of the 15th, when traffic would be virtually nonexistent. I think police were able to obtain evidence of their truck and camper cross-tracking back and forth recovered from CCTV, highway cams or dashcam and that’s one of the reasons why both crime scenes are linked to the suspects.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

They had three days to get there. They left the morning of the 12th so they had most of the 12th to drive. Then they had the 13th. Then Lucas and Chynna were murdered either late on the 14th or early on the 15th.

I do believe they would have closer to two days to make it to Liard Hot Springs area.
Bryer had texted his dad shortly after 8 in the morning on the 12th. It is assumed they hadn't left yet. It also matters which ferry they took to the mainlands. There is a ferry in Nanaimo and one in Port Hardy.

Let's assume they took the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver. It is an hour and a half drive from Port Alberni to Nanaimo. Then there is the line up for the ferry, plus it takes an hour and half to get across to Vancouver. So they'd have reached the mainlands by early to mid-afternoon at the earliest.

If they took the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert, there would have been an almost five hour drive from Port Alberni to the ferry. This ferry runs less often, and it would have taken 14 hours to get to Prince Rupert. Then there is still the drive to Liard River Hot Springs, not including any construction, bathroom breaks, eating breaks, gas breaks, and sleeping.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I don't think there's any chance they took the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert. The fare is $398 for the vehicle and $175 per person. That's $748 and it doesn't save enough driving to be worth it.

Nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay would have been $92.90.

 

[MistyWaters]

I do believe they would have closer to two days to make it to Liard Hot Springs area.
Bryer had texted his dad shortly after 8 in the morning on the 12th. It is assumed they hadn't left yet. It also matters which ferry they took to the mainlands. There is a ferry in Nanaimo and one in Port Hardy.

Let's assume they took the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver. It is an hour and a half drive from Port Alberni to Nanaimo. Then there is the line up for the ferry, plus it takes an hour and half to get across to Vancouver. So they'd have reached the mainlands by early to mid-afternoon at the earliest.

If they took the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert, there would have been an almost five hour drive from Port Alberni to the ferry. This ferry runs less often, and it would have taken 14 hours to get to Prince Rupert. Then there is still the drive to Liard River Hot Springs, not including any construction, bathroom breaks, eating breaks, gas breaks, and sleeping.

Google maps takes into account ferry time as well as drive time, at appx 24 hours. Advance tickets can be bought for the Nanaimo ferry so people need not wait in line and B’s great uncle said during an interview the plans were known in advance.

 

[Gina20]

It could be relevant, or not. Angel of Death is one of the most famous metal songs of all time, and teenagers often have usernames along those lines. But, that song is also about Josef Mengele, and if Bryer had an interest in Nazi stuff, Kam probably did too. So who knows. However he had that username for a few years so I don't know how relevant it was.

If their playlists had that and "Blaze of Glory" by Bon Jovi, it might be indicative of something.

 

[Zella]

If their playlists had that and "Blaze of Glory" by Bon Jovi, it might be indicative of something.

Or it could just indicate they like those bands.

I own what some might consider a truly creepy number of murder ballads/murder ballad compilation albums. Doesn't really mean anything on its own. MOO

 

[Grouper]

Thanks to everyone for clarifying — still quite a bit of driving, assuming they cleared 8 hours a day for three days (I still couldn’t imagine that). Not nearly as impossible as my tired brain originally imagined, though.

 

[Moriarty]

Thanks to everyone for clarifying — still quite a bit of driving, assuming they cleared 8 hours a day for three days (I still couldn’t imagine that). Not nearly as impossible as my tired brain originally imagined, though.

They went a lot harder than that from Dease Lake to Gillam between July 19 and 22! And we're assuming only Kam was driving...

 

[SovereignSnake]

I do believe they would have closer to two days to make it to Liard Hot Springs area.
Bryer had texted his dad shortly after 8 in the morning on the 12th. It is assumed they hadn't left yet. It also matters which ferry they took to the mainlands. There is a ferry in Nanaimo and one in Port Hardy.

Let's assume they took the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver. It is an hour and a half drive from Port Alberni to Nanaimo. Then there is the line up for the ferry, plus it takes an hour and half to get across to Vancouver. So they'd have reached the mainlands by early to mid-afternoon at the earliest.

If they took the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert, there would have been an almost five hour drive from Port Alberni to the ferry. This ferry runs less often, and it would have taken 14 hours to get to Prince Rupert. Then there is still the drive to Liard River Hot Springs, not including any construction, bathroom breaks, eating breaks, gas breaks, and sleeping.

I remember you posting this timeline a couple weeks back and I'm glad you shared it again. I keep thinking about people not factoring in the ferry times and other particulars in their drive. I do suppose it's very possible depending on how early they left Port Alberni on that Friday the 12th. We know Bryer had texted Alan shortly after 8am but then was it another few hours before they left? We can't assume they were on the road at any approximate time on Friday. Besides, delays always happen the day you set off on a trip. Then yes, also factor in construction, traffic, bathroom breaks, just breaks to stretch your legs. I mean that is a lot of driving for one guy! Putting it in on Google maps and it says it's a 26 hour drive, but once again, Google is not adding ferry speeds and delays, in their estimated travel time. They only factor the distance travelled. The last time I did a 26 hour estimated drive it took me 3 solid days. Driving 10-12 hours a day and stopping at night to sleep. That's the other thing, they had to stop and sleep for the night as well. I remember I left on a Wednesday morning about 10am (the very same day the 35W bridge collapsed in Minneapolis in 2007) and didn't get to Seattle until Friday night about 7pm. I want to say it was doable for Kam and Bryer to be in Liard River late that night of the 14th but my god was that a haul!

 

[NJSleuth91]

If their playlists had that and "Blaze of Glory" by Bon Jovi, it might be indicative of something.

I don't think they were the Bon Jovi type. I always kind of assumed they were into metal though because it goes with a lot of the other subcultures they were part of. But in any case, it could be something, or not. If being into a song about killing people makes one into a killer, there would be millions of murderers on the loose and society would collapse.

 

[Pyecraft]

I remember you posting this timeline a couple weeks back and I'm glad you shared it again. I keep thinking about people not factoring in the ferry times and other particulars in their drive. I do suppose it's very possible depending on how early they left Port Alberni on that Friday the 12th. We know Bryer had texted Alan shortly after 8am but then was it another few hours before they left? We can't assume they were on the road at any approximate time on Friday. Besides, delays always happen the day you set off on a trip. Then yes, also factor in construction, traffic, bathroom breaks, just breaks to stretch your legs. I mean that is a lot of driving for one guy! Putting it in on Google maps and it says it's a 26 hour drive, but once again, Google is not adding ferry speeds and delays, in their estimated travel time. They only factor the distance travelled. The last time I did a 26 hour estimated drive it took me 3 solid days. Driving 10-12 hours a day and stopping at night to sleep. That's the other thing, they had to stop and sleep for the night as well. I remember I left on a Wednesday morning about 10am (the very same day the 35W bridge collapsed in Minneapolis in 2007) and didn't get to Seattle until Friday night about 7pm. I want to say it was doable for Kam and Bryer to be in Liard River late that night of the 14th but my god was that a haul!

If this is true, I would think you only drive so hard if you're meeting someone, or have a definite schedule set. Alternatively, you'd be giving it so hard if you were being followed, or chased or simply trying to get far away from something pronto.
Either way, you are in a hurry.

Otherwise human nature would have you just drive the trip in a comfortable stride?

 

[Gina20]

If being into a song about killing people makes one into a killer, there would be millions of murderers on the loose and society would collapse.

Alas, I did not make such a sweeping statement.

 

[MistyWaters]

They went a lot harder than that from Dease Lake to Gillam between July 19 and 22! And we're assuming only Kam was driving...

Yes that’s right, it’s a minimum 36 hours straight drive time from Stikine River Bridge at Hwy 37 to Sundance, MB July 19th to July 22nd, when the burning RAV4 was found.

 

[MistyWaters]

If this is true, I would think you only drive so hard if you're meeting someone, or have a definite schedule set. Alternatively, you'd be giving it so hard if you were being followed, or chased or simply trying to get far away from something pronto.
Either way, you are in a hurry.

Otherwise human nature would have you just drive the trip in a comfortable stride?

An average of eight hours per day drive time on a long distance trip with 18 hours or more of daylight in the summer isn’t a rush trip. This wasn’t ever supposed to be have been a leisurely vacation for them. What did else did they have to do? Drive, sleep, eat. They had a camper, so no camp to set up. Their families probably ensured it was packed with easy-to-prepare food for their trip to Whitehorse job hunting. No video games, no online access, winding roads, trees and more trees, no mental stimulation, boring.......then what, they decided to create their own excitement?...

 

[FactFinder3000]

An average of eight hours per day drive time on a long distance trip with 18 hours or more of daylight in the summer isn’t a rush trip. This wasn’t supposed to be a leisurely vacation. What did else did they have to do? Drive, sleep, eat. They had a camper, so no camp to set up. Their families probably ensured it was packed with easy-to-prepare food for their trip to Whitehorse job hunting. No video games, no online access, winding roads, trees and more trees, no mental stimulation, boring.......then what, they decided to create their own excitement?...

Exactly. I think there's even a good chance they spent some time job hunting on the way, if that was truly their goal.

It's 1:12 from Port Alberni to Nanaimo. At that point they're waiting for a ferry and then riding a ferry, not driving. From Horseshoe bay they could then drive a little over 8 hours to hit Prince George on their first day.

They would then have 2 days to make the 13 hour trip to Liard Hot Springs.

In fact, they didn't make very good time, really. Which makes it seems unlikely that they drove through the night. This suggests to me that they probably saw Lucas and Chynna broken down during the day, possibly even stopping in to chat. They then formulated their diabolical plan and returned in the middle of the night. Just one possible scenario.

 

[SovereignSnake]

If this is true, I would think you only drive so hard if you're meeting someone, or have a definite schedule set. Alternatively, you'd be giving it so hard if you were being followed, or chased or simply trying to get far away from something pronto.
Either way, you are in a hurry.

Otherwise human nature would have you just drive the trip in a comfortable stride?

Agree 100%. Interesting, in fact, when I did that 26 hour drive in 3 days I was going hard as well because I needed to be in Seattle by Friday night, because we left that very same night on a camping trip to Sekiu and Neah Bay.

Another thing about the time Kam and Bryer actually left Port Alberni. Bryer messaged Alan at 8:24am and remember Bryer didn't have a cellphone provider so he had to have internet access. I would say the odds are fairly certain he sent those two messages shortly before they set out from Kam's house or in another scenario Kam picked Bryer up at his Grandma's that morning. I'm more inclined to think Bryer spent the night at Kam's that night before they however. ~Just a feeling.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agree 100%. Interesting, in fact, when I did that 26 hour drive in 3 days I was going hard as well because I needed to be in Seattle by Friday night, because we left that very same night on a camping trip to Sekiu and Neah Bay.

Another thing about the time Kam and Bryer actually left Port Alberni. Bryer messaged Alan at 8:24am and remember Bryer didn't have a cellphone provider so he had to have internet access. I would say the odds are fairly certain he sent those two messages shortly before they set out from Kam's house or in another scenario Kam picked Bryer up at his Grandma's that morning. I'm more inclined to think Bryer spent the night at Kam's that night before they however. ~Just a feeling.

Am I remembering correctly that AS said he got the text from B when he was in Nanaimo, heading towards Port Alberni to visit his son?

I really wonder what AS plans were that day, with B. Surely AS didn’t just plan to just show up. Because I don’t understand why B wouldn’t have let his dad know he was leaving town the day before. Okay, so maybe he forgot but the terse text msg reads to me a “don’t call me, I’ll call you”, a means of avoidance. Internet access shouldn’t be a problem until travelling through the Rocky Mountains, hours away had they actually been heading towards Alberta (which they can’t have been). Then for B to tell his Port Alberni family one story and his dad another, there’s something about his family dynamics within that. JMO

July 12 8:24AM
“Me and Kim(sp) are going to Alberta today. So I won’t have internet for awhile so I’ll talk to you when I can.”
Update: Father of B.C. teen murder suspect allowed to see video of son's ‘last will and testament’

 

[FactFinder3000]

The unfortunate reality is that parents are often not a child's top priority. Parents get taken for granted. Also, this is a parent that didn't raise him.

B and K could easily have gone through Alberta. The route through Jasper and Grand Prarie would add 1:20 above the most direct route. There are lots of jobs in Grand Prarie. It's possible they did go to Alberta first, for whatever reason, which would certainly explain Bryer's text.

 

[sandbar]

...timeline of the days Kam and Bryer were actually camped in Dease Lake. I completely forgot Claudia Bunce said they stopped at the Jade Store in Jade City on Thursday the 18th for free coffee. I've tried finding an approximate time but I can't find one. Then they were spotted at the Super A store round 3:15 also on Thursday in Dease Lake. So if the Jade Store is a 1 hour and 40 minute drive North of Dease Lake does this mean Kam and Bryer were still traveling South to Dease Lake on Thursday the 18th? In other words did they stop at like noon for coffee on Thursday in Jade City then stop at the Super A later that afternoon shortly after 3, picking up food and maybe some supplies, then continued South out of town to where they would eventually leave the Dodge and Camper and Leonard? By the way, it was the mother of one of the cashiers at Super A who claims she saw them hitchhiking outside of town (Dease Lake.) I'm trying to get an understanding of where this "third scene" was located. My intuition told me it was outside of town heading South from Dease Lake but I guess it could have been North of town along the lake just as well. It doesn't make sense to me that they would be seen camped outside of Dease Lake for a few days, seen hitchhiking, then suddenly they're randomly two hours North in Jade City Thursday, then back down in Dease Lake later that afternoon, then 35 miles further South of Dease Lake that very same night. Like they were trolling up and down that stretch of Hwy 37. It just sounds so bizarre. Still, I do believe they were seen at the Jade Store. But if they were allegedly South of the Liard River the night of the 14th with Lucas and Chynna where were they the 15th, 16, 17th? I mean which is it? Were they camping outside Dease Lake for the few days leading up to what went down on the 19th or were they still traveling South from where ever they had been, stopped at the Jade Store on Thursday the 18th and then two hours later the Super A store, then finally stopped at the spot where the Dodge was burned Friday afternoon. Very strange. I guess this just sounds even more weird because I was under the impression they had been camped out at this "third scene" for a couple days, then had to move to the "final spot" for another couple days before they burned everything. Also, I'm assuming if mother indeed spotted them hitchhiking, it was in fairly close proximity to one of their camps. The question now is, was it near their original spot the "third scene" or the final "burn scene?"

This sounds like we need @otto. Are you out there MapMaster?

 

[sandbar]

BUT ..... I need to ask .... truly, what right do we (the public) need to know?? What obligation does the RCMP really owe us - the common public? According to the RCMP (at the moment) there are no other suspects, so they really do not need to tell us anything.

I believe that as Canadians we pay the RCMP through our taxes and as such we play a part in how that institution is constructed.

They owe us as thorough, unbiased, and complete investigation that technology and investigative processes allow at this time, and the willingness to reconsider if a certain threshold is met. I don't know what that threshold is.

It was approx 3 weeks for the crime to run its course, and it's been 36 days since they found K&B, and today. Let's keep some perspective.