Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[acutename]

I do believe they would have closer to two days to make it to Liard Hot Springs area.
Bryer had texted his dad shortly after 8 in the morning on the 12th. It is assumed they hadn't left yet. It also matters which ferry they took to the mainlands. There is a ferry in Nanaimo and one in Port Hardy.

Let's assume they took the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver. It is an hour and a half drive from Port Alberni to Nanaimo. Then there is the line up for the ferry, plus it takes an hour and half to get across to Vancouver. So they'd have reached the mainlands by early to mid-afternoon at the earliest.

If they took the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert, there would have been an almost five hour drive from Port Alberni to the ferry. This ferry runs less often, and it would have taken 14 hours to get to Prince Rupert. Then there is still the drive to Liard River Hot Springs, not including any construction, bathroom breaks, eating breaks, gas breaks, and sleeping.

possibly dumb Q- will the RCMP know which ferry they took because there will be records?

 

[kmclaren]

possibly dumb Q- will the RCMP know which ferry they took because there will be records?

No they will not, you can catch a variety of ferries on/off the island without records. They could check credit card records but you can also pay cash.

 

[acutename]

If this is true, I would think you only drive so hard if you're meeting someone, or have a definite schedule set. Alternatively, you'd be giving it so hard if you were being followed, or chased or simply trying to get far away from something pronto.
Either way, you are in a hurry.

Otherwise human nature would have you just drive the trip in a comfortable stride?

they are 18 and 19- fairly new drivers and not necessarily sleeping a lot. if anything, I would imagine them sleeping a bit late in the a.m. and then staying awake- they worked the night shift at Walmart too, right? (speculating)

 

[whiterhino]

Ok hold up... I'm not over here stating things as fact, I'm speculating and proposing theories that are Jmo which IIRC is acceptable here?

Agreed, they seem like Reddit/4Chan types and the content of 4Chan is in the vein of dead animal memes etc. Dudebro culture Imo.

The armband and knife were from Bryer. I was talking more specifically about Kam. His digital footprint seems to be obscured.

I do not have links or "proof" of any rumors of prior mental health issues, I already stated it was something I thought I'd read in the threads when they were initially listed as "missing". I've already tried searching the threads but was unsuccessful. I know it was in the early days of the probably the first couple of threads.

I also wasn't implying that anyone of their Steam friends has "secret insider information". Please don't twist my words around. I said there's most likely at least one other friend or user that had some idea of what they were like, their frame of mind.

Not to say there's a third person, not to say someone else knew there was a premeditated plan or anything. Just saying, Bryer was going around trying to recruit people to join a militia. Not exactly stealthy or secretive but highly doubtful anyone would cough up what they really knew for fear of being entangled. Aside from the one friend that was interviewed. And no, I don't have any links for that interview but they're already in one of the 19 threads here somewhere.

I wasn't trying to connect Bryers learning disability to anything either. Want to make that crystal clear!! Just wondering if part of the reason for the alternative school wasn't maybe related to his behaviour towards other students, for example, telling someone he was going to decapitate them. Because if that didn't play a role, it really should have.

Also yeah, I get that choosing a username like Angel of Death might be no big deal on one hand but on the other, to me it's kind of a red flag. Jmo, don't come for me.

Again, I'm not sure why you're asking or expecting me to provide proof of their house being for sale? I never made a statement about being for sale prior, I said "I thought I'd read that the house was up for sale". Thought. Nothing more.

Others have said that it appears like Kam deleted most of the content on his Steam, someone else has replied to me saying no one can find his Youtube, his Instagram looks pretty barren aside from a few landscape type pics, etc. I am not saying I know for a fact he deleted anything but it appears like he did.

And again, I do not have proof and do not know why you're asking me specifically when I'm just asking like so many others here.

I agree they were most likely on 4Chan (and Reddit). I don't know about the dead animals thing though. And there were a lot of things out there that we know about...the Nazi knife and armband, the gun in mouth picture, the Airsoft pictures, the "speaking of politics" thing...enough to paint a picture.

Some of those people probably knew him and those were genuine condolences. Some were probably just people joking around trying to be edgy. Either way I don't see how leaving a message on his page means they had some secret insider information.

I believe people said it was a character from an anime, which was also Kam's profile picture on Facebook.

I've never heard that about the mental health issues. Do you have a link?

Also both of them were in the alternative school -- Kam graduated in 2018, and Bryer may or may not have graduated in 2019. The alternative school is called the Eighth Avenue Learning Center VAST program, and from what I can tell it seems to be more for students with learning disabilities, like a more personalized attention thing, rather than severely emotionally disturbed students. The 60 Minutes interview said Bryer had "learning difficulties." Judging by the few comments they left on Steam and Instagram that we have seen, both of them seemed to barely have a grasp of the written word...like I literally wrote better than that in third grade. My theory is they were both dyslexic, and Bryer also may have had ADHD...JMO...and I don't think that's related to their crimes.

Or...it could have been because it was for a gaming site and a lot of the games they played involved killing opponents. I don't see anything unusual about his username and I doubt he was trying to send a message about being a future killer years later. I think it's a very typical username for a teenage gamer to use.

Where is the evidence that he deleted stuff? His Facebook was deleted but it most likely wasn't by him, because it was deleted when they were in the woods and possibly dead already.

Where is any evidence that their house was/is for sale, now or prior to the murders? I have never heard that.

Not all of them do, though. For example, the Columbine killers never hurt animals -- in fact Eric Harris was said to be very attached to his dog and even stayed home from school to take care of it when it was sick. I don't think we should assume they did that unless there's evidence. Usually the type of kids who do that, aren't very secretive about it, and the other kids know.

 

[whiterhino]

I’d like to know the source for this as well. IIRC reportedly K’s family left town because of the media presence. Is this being misconstrued into they moved????

To be clear I have no proof, I was asking for clarification because I thought I'd read this in one of the earlier threads.

Clearly I have misunderstood. Don't make it bigger than it is please. I don't want to be responsible for getting this thread shut down lol.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I’d like to know the source for this as well. IIRC reportedly K’s family left town because of the media presence. Is this being misconstrued into they moved???

I have read, not sure where now that it was Bryer's mother who left town. Kam's dad jointly owns a business (which I won't list the name of it here, but is not too hard to find) and has a lot of space on his property which is far weighs out of the city core so keeping a distance is a lot easier.

 

[Arnie M]

I've actually suspected for awhile that the damage to Chynna's face may have been because she was shot in the head from behind and it was an exit wound in her face. MOO

Could be , but I got thinking if they used a shotgun it would totally damage anything it hit. Gruesome subject I know , just thinking out loud ,

 

[acutename]

Tried to separate my comments, your reply and my response to your replies below:

To clarify, I am just speculating. None of my posts are stated as fact.

**I'm extremely curious to know what other things they got up to online, what their search history and Youtube history looks like.**



>Oh, I know that there isn't much out there that anyone has discovered yet but there's definitely something. Someone must have screenshot something. The fact that there isn't more of a trail is suspicious. I have a feeling they were trolling the internet for awhile before they set about their plans.

These 2 seem like 4Chan trolls who spend their time in the comments and making memes about dead animals Imho.

In the screenshots on Steam you can see other players usernames, there has to be at least one person other than Bryer and Kam that knows something and is keeping their mouth shut. There are comments on Bryers' Steam that express condolences, R.I.P and "bruh".

Anyone know anything about the vampire "emoticon" image they both posted on June 4th? Kam posted on Bryers first and then Bryer posted a few hours later. The fact that there is a gap in the time shows that they weren't next to each other or even online at the same time.

Wonder what they were up to when they were NOT together?

**Wasn't there some history of mental health issues or something mentioned?**



> For some reason when they were first listed as missing, I could've sworn that there was mention of mental health issues or concern for their mental health. Maybe I misread?

I know that BS was in some kind of alternative school. Wondering if it had anything to do with telling that girl he would cut off her head?

**I can't help but think that Kam calling himself the "Angel Of Death" was an indication of something dark.**



>Imho it's relevant. To refer back to Luka Magnotta, we know from his internet presence, his choice of usernames and activity reveal his online persona. Many of LMs usernames hinted at well known SKs'.

The fact that Kam possibly choose that username at such a young age kind of screams "look at me, I am morbid" Imo. I realize a lot of kids do this kind of thing, choose usernames that are in poor taste or hint at the personality they're beginning to develop.

I think it's a hint at Kams' mindset, not just a nod to heavy metal. Angel of Death is also used to describe a certain type of SK. Angel of death is like the reaper. B&K committed not only homicide but suicide... makes me wonder if Kam had some kind of power trip complex, like being able to decide if someone dies or not. Also, Bryer seemed like he was on a mission. Maybe Kam thought he would help bring his friend some peace?

Is there anything to indicate that Kam was as into Nazi "stuff" as well? To me, the fact that Kam deleted so much and seems to have hidden things is kind of telling.

I can't help but think Kam had done something bad and was trying to erase it. Something in my gut says he was playing "death" and making burials in the forest. *Just my own projections and imaginings, I am NOT saying this actually happened*

**As some posters have said, the parents house was up for sale.**



>Did I say before? An assumption made by me. This is why it would be great to have things a bit separated into facts or what is known.

I assumed their house was already for sale. Again, I must have misread.

So they put it up for sale after the fact? Because I had started to wonder if that wasn't maybe a factor in Kam deciding to take off... Wrong again!

**A lot of serial killers start out killing small animals and often have some kind of experience with hunting.**

So far we have no evidence of any of those things, although it's possible.

>I know and I have no proof. Just pointing out a common fact among serial murderers. Yes this is true there's no evidence (yet, did they search the Mcleod property?) but from everything we know of murderers and SKs', A LOT of them start out small. When you factor in age etc, I can easily see these 2 being the type to hurt helpless beings.

Could this be part of the "war games in the woods" story from AS. Practicing?

I just don't see 2 teenage guys on the border of adulthood going off on a murderous "spree" without having any prior exposure to violence aside from video games. I've known guys like this. They are the kind who rip wings off a butterfly or legs off a spider.

Also, I have to say that between the 2 of them, Kam looked like he was in rough shape in the Meadow Lake footage. He looks disheveled and the expression on his face seems... like he is lost or something. Meanwhile, Bryer seems like he took a lunch break and didn't come back.

Another question: Where did the pork chops come from?! Did they buy them and cook them along the way? Did they buy them at a restaurant? Has this been discussed already?

Apologies to those who find my posts tiresome... I just want answers like everyone else.[/QUOTE]

MSM stated at some point that BS sort of harassed other Steam subscribers- something like trash talked them or bullied them in games. Not sure if there was "proof,"

B.C. teen murder suspect’s online gaming activities under scrutiny | Watch News Videos Online

and the articles I have seen do not give too much detail.

(FWIW, if I were a betting person, I would bet that LD purchased the pork chops; I just do not see BS and KM buying food other than burgers, chips and drinks, but sometimes in remote areas, you buy what the store has in stock, IMO.)

 

[sandbar]

possibly dumb Q- will the RCMP know which ferry they took because there will be records?

I'd bet there's a Port Authority camera or two around the docks. Can't say for certain, but...

 

[Zella]

Could be , but I got thinking if they used a shotgun it would totally damage anything it hit. Gruesome subject I know , just thinking out loud ,

It's possible, but to me what Trevor Pierce described/gestured didn't sound like a shotgun's damage to me. MOO

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I was thinking of working theory where my original opinion of this whole thing being Bryer's idea can possibly be skewed. I remembered back to Kam's father's statement. It was shortly after they were named as suspects. He must have had idea before then that his son was missing before then. What if the two guns came from Kam's house? Kam had the truck, the camper, so it wouldn't be a stretch to have guns that he could have easily taken.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

No they will not, you can catch a variety of ferries on/off the island without records. They could check credit card records but you can also pay cash.

Isn't there cameras on or around the ferries?

 

[acutename]

I was thinking of working theory where my original opinion of this whole thing being Bryer's idea can possibly be skewed. I remembered back to Kam's father's statement. It was shortly after they were named as suspects. He must have had idea before then that his son was missing before then. What if the two guns came from Kam's house? Kam had the truck, the camper, so it wouldn't be a stretch to have guns that he could have easily taken.

the thing that strikes me is that neither family seems to have thought that BS and KM were incapable of taking a road trip and finding work- they provided the truck, supplies, money. they did not seem to think that the two couldn't navigate, or camp or get food, so whatever "learning problems" or shortfalls we can speculate that they might have had, the families did not think that this trip was dangerous or "a bad idea" or anything that would end in tragedy.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

the thing that strikes me is that neither family seems to have thought that BS and KM were incapable of taking a road trip and finding work- they provided the truck, supplies, money.

I mean they could have saved some money from the month they worked at Walmart. I mean they both graduated, or at the very least Kam did. With technology and Kam knowing how to drive it wouldn't have been that hard. Even driving north, there was only one highway to Whitehorse. The only thing I can see them having concerns about is the lack of phone service. I have a feeling Bryer's family didn't particularly care, except maybe his grandma and his father on some level on what he did.

 

[whiterhino]

I have seen that posted here as well. I believe if you go on Bryers Steam account, you can see screenshots of him ganging up on someone? It was also posted somewhere in the threads that there were comments about warnings on his Steam page or something.

Of course I do not have proof or links or post # or poster names from WS to verify.

MSM stated at some point that BS sort of harassed other Steam subscribers- something like trash talked them or bullied them in games. Not sure if there was "proof,"

B.C. teen murder suspect’s online gaming activities under scrutiny | Watch News Videos Online

and the articles I have seen do not give too much detail.

(FWIW, if I were a betting person, I would bet that LD purchased the pork chops; I just do not see BS and KM buying food other than burgers, chips and drinks, but sometimes in remote areas, you buy what the store has in stock, IMO.)

I can't make sense of the pork chops at all. It makes no sense for them to stop and buy pork chops anywhere let alone take the time to cook them.

It also seems ridiculous that they would discover them in a cooler and decide to have a barbecue in the midst of being fugitives. Although, maybe they just didn't care because at the end of the day, the plan was suicide. Jmo, moo, speculation etc.

 

[Arnie M]

Regarding the Ram Truck and slide in camper the boys started out with and was later found burned.

At one time I worked as a professional auto-body and frame technician and when I saw pictures of the burned out cab I found it very odd the way the roof was dented sharply down over the rear window. There is no way the fire would have caused it , fire will stretch and distort an auto body but never make such a prominent crease like that truck cab has.

The only way to do that is a significant impact from above. Next I saw what I would describe as a significant bent main frame of the truck under the cab and box .... frame is bent downwards and you can see in the pictures how the cab and box lines no longer line up.

Also in another picture the right front wheel and axle is bent up and sitting up in the air .... that truck has a solid front axle (Four wheel drive) .... this indicates to me the front truck frame is also bent up .

Now if you look at the terrain in front and behind the burned out truck you will see solid rock outcrops and possibly rock under the right front wheel area.

In my opinion the truck was moving at a speed of at least 60 kmh and hit a rocky outcrop bringing it to a sudden stop , bending the frame the way it did because of the top-heavy slide in camper it was carrying.

It may be possible the front overhang of the camper caused the sharp crease in the truck roof , although (to me) the underside of the camper is flat and smooth and should have pressed down on the whole roof instead of as such a sharp crease.

Maybe the whole thing stared out if they "accidentally" damaged their own truck and then subsequently encountered and harmed the other victims while looking for a new ride.

I had planned to include pictures but the thread got closed for a day or so and I no longer have them on this computer . Some of the pictures I captured from a video of the burned truck If anyone has them handy please post. Many thanks

 

[Trooper]

the thing that strikes me is that neither family seems to have thought that BS and KM were incapable of taking a road trip and finding work- they provided the truck, supplies, money. they did not seem to think that the two couldn't navigate, or camp or get food, so whatever "learning problems" or shortfalls we can speculate that they might have had, the families did not think that this trip was dangerous or "a bad idea" or anything that would end in tragedy.

Or ….they had blotted their copybook so badly at Walmart in Port Al that the chances of securing another job there was remote, and it was with a sigh of huge relief that the entire population of Port Al saw the dust from the wheels of that elderly campervan on the horizon, heading outta town.

Perhaps their guardians/parents saw it as a learning tool, a way to appreciate how food gets on the table, how clothes appear magically in the wardrobe, how bills get paid, all that normal ordinary stuff that comes as a hell of a shock to the majority of teenagers.

Kam and Bry were in the very brink of adulthood. They had navigated the shoals and rips of early teenagerdom not exactly successfully ( the alternate school, the threats to behead various girls, the addictive 'war game' stuff, etc ) and quite a lot would be reasonably expected of them , comparatively …

Certainly it is rational to assume no one, no one at all except Kam and Bry expected what did in fact happen. No one could have.

 

[whiterhino]

the thing that strikes me is that neither family seems to have thought that BS and KM were incapable of taking a road trip and finding work- they provided the truck, supplies, money. they did not seem to think that the two couldn't navigate, or camp or get food, so whatever "learning problems" or shortfalls we can speculate that they might have had, the families did not think that this trip was dangerous or "a bad idea" or anything that would end in tragedy.

BBM

Not to fixate on your posts specifically but...

AS seems Imo to have had some kind of idea of something. He already had his book in the works and his quote about a "blaze of glory" is telling. Again MOO.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

BBM
AS seems Imo to have had some kind of idea of something. He already had his book in the works and his quote about a "blaze of glory" is telling. Again MOO.

He could have had a bad feeling before they left. I'll have to find the article, but wasn't he supposed to see Bryer before Bryer messaged him about going to Alberta with Kam? Maybe their was an arupt change in plans, so he instantly though something was wrong. Projecting maybe.

 

[whiterhino]

He could have had a bad feeling before they left. I'll have to find the article, but wasn't he supposed to see Bryer before Bryer messaged him about going to Alberta with Kam? Maybe their was an arupt change in plans, so he instantly though something was wrong. Projecting maybe.

Nah, at the risk of getting attacked and whilst walking the fine line of not sleuthing parents, I believe AS knew more about the inner workings of Bryers mind than he lets on. I do see some projection though, for sure!

It seems he would have given BS whatever he could, like he was being a friend or the cool dad Imo. He is the one who bought that air soft rifle. Was he unaware that his son threatened to cut off a classmates head? Did he buy the air soft after the threat? Who does that?!

Does anyone know what brand the cologne was?