Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #2

[Summersolstice]

(BBM)

Thank you, but I'm still not sure what you mean by the BBM part. What is happening now? Last I heard, LE has arrested an officer with reportedly the full cooperation of the military brass, charged him with four crimes, and are investigating if he's connected to more. Am I missing something?

If someone climbed through the ranks when the prevailing attitude of superior officers toward women and sexual assault was unenlightened, should we be surprised that such a person would retain certain attitudes? Should we be surprised that a person could have slipped under the radar for some time, given the attitudes of those superiors?

Is it possible that the old "don't ask, don't tell" attitude meant the red flags were there, but not seen?

It is noteworthy that there was an officer charged with sexual assault at CFB Borden on September 16, 2009. So, yes, charges can and do happen.

 

[Summersolstice]

Scottish coverage:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...yals-is-alleged-serial-killer-86908-22063674/

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Scottish coverage:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...yals-is-alleged-serial-killer-86908-22063674/

I don't mean to be disrespectful, though we already have all this information. The fact that the UK is reporting it is only because he has been a pilot for the Queen and he was born in the UK and their headline is to just grab attention, so people will buy their paper and for more sensationalization.The general rule of thumb is in order to be considered a serial killer, you must be convicted of at least three murders - at this point he's only been charged with two. I understand that not everyone agrees with this, though most profilers will use three as their basis for serial killings.

I am unclear what the comment about retaining certain attitudes has to do with red flags or anything to be honest. There are a lot of people out in the world that have similiar attitudes as RW and they don't go around murdering/raping women. This entire situation is about one individual who has been charged with crimes, not the entire military, I'm not sure what you are trying to allude to, if anything.

 

[Summersolstice]

Taking a cue from LE, who have spoken often about commonalities, I have considered a commonality between Michelle Knight Mendes and Melissa Haggart, a key witness in the case of Joe Grozelle.

Grozelle was recruited for the basketball team at RMC in 2001, and started basic officer training in St. Jean, Quebec. He attended RMC in the fall of 2001. Grozelle vanished from RMC in Kingston on October 23, 2003, and was found dead weeks later in a nearby river. For more on the case:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/shadowsofdoubt/timeline.html

We know that RW's time at RMC overlapped with Joe Grozelle's:

http://www.windsorstar.com/entertai...+death+Father+wants+review/2548018/story.html

Melissa Haggart, Grozelle's girlfriend, was a trophy-winner player on the women's soccer team at RMC at the time of Grozelle's death:

http://137.94.251.50/athletics/varsity/Soccer-W/IND_TEAM_REC_STATS_WEB.pdf

This article says Mendes graduated from RMC in 2001, and went on to marry Victor Mendes, a soccer coach at RMC:

http://afghanistan.pigstye.net/article.php?story=MichelleMendes

I hope this clarifies the chronology and dates.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Taking a cue from LE, who have spoken often about commonalities, I have considered a commonality between Michelle Knight Mendes and Melissa Haggart, a key witness in the case of Joe Grozelle.

Grozelle was recruited for the basketball team at RMC in 2001, and started basic officer training in St. Jean, Quebec. He attended RMC in the fall of 2001. Grozelle vanished from RMC in Kingston on October 23, 2003, and was found dead weeks later in a nearby river. For more on the case:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/shadowsofdoubt/timeline.html

We know that RW's time at RMC overlapped with Joe Grozelle's:

http://www.windsorstar.com/entertai...+death+Father+wants+review/2548018/story.html

Melissa Haggart, Grozelle's girlfriend, was a trophy-winner player on the women's soccer team at RMC at the time of Grozelle's death:

http://137.94.251.50/athletics/varsity/Soccer-W/IND_TEAM_REC_STATS_WEB.pdf

This article says Mendes graduated from RMC in 2001, and went on to marry Victor Mendes, a soccer coach at RMC:

http://afghanistan.pigstye.net/article.php?story=MichelleMendes

I hope this clarifies the chronology and dates.

Are you suggesting that RW is somehow connected to these deaths? I'm completely confused what this this has to do with the case we are presently discussing.

 

[Summersolstice]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, though we already have all this information. The fact that the UK is reporting it is only because he has been a pilot for the Queen and he was born in the UK and ther headline is to just grab attention, so people will buy their paper and for more sensationalization.The general rule of thumb is in order to be considered a serial killer, you must be convicted of at least three murders - at this point he's only been charged with two. I understand that not everyone agrees with this, though most profilers will use three as their basis for serial killings.

I am unclear what the comment about retaining certain attitudes has to do with red flags or anything to be honest. There are a lot of people out in the world that have similiar attitudes as RW and they don't go around murdering/raping women. This entire situation is about one individual who has been charged with crimes, not the entire military, I'm not sure what you are trying to allude to, if anything.

The title of the post is the headline from the newspaper article.

The fact is that RW stands accused of these crimes, including the alleged murder of one of the soldiers under his command. The fact is that he is a Lieutenant-Colonel and was CO of a large military base. We are hearing many comments in the media about no red flags being raised. Indeed, the military is launching a review of his file, to see if anything should have been considered a red flag. In other words, did everyone along the way who promoted RW to his current position do their jobs correctly? Were things missed that should have been cause for concern?

My question is: were the red flags there all along? Were they not noticed by the military, before the alleged murder of a subordinate officer under his command? If so, why not? This is relevant to the case.

The Canadian military allowed this individual to be in contact with high-profile dignitaries from other countries. Obviously, it is crucial to review the situation, to prevent similar circumstances in the future. I do wonder if this will strain diplomatic relations with Britain. Our military allowed one individual to come very close to the Queen. I'm sure they'll have some explaining to do to the Queen's security, if RW is found guilty.

From what I have brought forward in past articles, there have been problems in the military before with regards to sexual assault. If this is an ongoing situation that remains unresolved, we can expect more of the same.

 

[Summersolstice]

Are you suggesting that RW is somehow connected to these deaths? I'm completely confused what this this has to do with the case we are presently discussing.

Joe Grozelle's father has asked for a review in relation to RW, as noted above:

http://www.windsorstar.com/entertai...+death+Father+wants+review/2548018/story.html

LE has said that many case files will be reviewed.

I have no idea if Michelle Mendes came into contact with any of these individuals.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thank you for summarizing / clarifying your thoughts into one succinct post, summer. You are an exceptionally prolific poster, and our mind-reading skills are not always in peak form

I think we get your overall theory, but might be having difficulties reading through such a multitude of posts/links that seem to indicate your thoughts are leaning towards an overall coverup/conspiracy within the military ... while scratching heads and wracking brains trying to figure out how these matters are more directly related to what we know about Jessica Lloyd and/or RW.

While it may eventually lead to bigger things, IMO, we have to look at each case individually, where the more immediate evidence / information takes us ... ground up, as opposed to sky down

all MOO

 

[pinkeyesucks]

Taking a cue from LE, who have spoken often about commonalities, I have considered a commonality between Michelle Knight Mendes and Melissa Haggart, a key witness in the case of Joe Grozelle.

Grozelle was recruited for the basketball team at RMC in 2001, and started basic officer training in St. Jean, Quebec. He attended RMC in the fall of 2001. Grozelle vanished from RMC in Kingston on October 23, 2003, and was found dead weeks later in a nearby river. For more on the case:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/shadowsofdoubt/timeline.html

We know that RW's time at RMC overlapped with Joe Grozelle's:

http://www.windsorstar.com/entertai...+death+Father+wants+review/2548018/story.html

Melissa Haggart, Grozelle's girlfriend, was a trophy-winner player on the women's soccer team at RMC at the time of Grozelle's death:

http://137.94.251.50/athletics/varsity/Soccer-W/IND_TEAM_REC_STATS_WEB.pdf

This article says Mendes graduated from RMC in 2001, and went on to marry Victor Mendes, a soccer coach at RMC:

http://afghanistan.pigstye.net/article.php?story=MichelleMendes

I hope this clarifies the chronology and dates.

Okay so whack me upside the head if I am being dense here...Joe Grozelle, found dead in the river at rmc, his college girlfriend found dead in Kandahar sometime afterwards?

Am I reading that right?

Could be the paint fumes if I got it all mixed up.

 

[Summersolstice]

Okay so whack me upside the head if I am being dense here...Joe Grozelle, found dead in the river at rmc, his college girlfriend found dead in Kandahar sometime afterwards?

Am I reading that right?

Could be the paint fumes if I got it all mixed up.

Yes, it's the paint fumes. Joe Grozelle was Melissa Haggart's boyfriend.

 

[Summersolstice]

Thank you for summarizing / clarifying your thoughts into one succinct post, summer. You are an exceptionally prolific poster, and our mind-reading skills are not always in peak form

I think we get your overall theory, but might be having difficulties reading through such a multitude of posts/links that seem to indicate your thoughts are leaning towards an overall coverup/conspiracy within the military ... while scratching heads and wracking brains trying to figure out how these matters are more directly related to what we know about Jessica Lloyd and/or RW.

While it may eventually lead to bigger things, IMO, we have to look at each case individually, where the more immediate evidence / information takes us ... ground up, as opposed to sky down

all MOO

I'm thinking there may be a bigger picture, and that it might be worse than what my imagination can muster. There's something about that reported quick confession that makes me scratch my head (which is sometimes in the clouds).

 

[Sillybilly]

Crawling through the fumes here ...

RW's connection to Grozelle and Mendes can be summarized as follows:

2001 - Michelle Mendes graduated from RMC and went on to marry (date unknown) Victor Mendes, the RMC soccer coach

2001 to 2003 - Joe Grozelle was attending RMC when he disappeared in 2003. His girlfriend at the time was Melissa Haggart who was on the women's soccer team. At the same time, RW was at RMC doing his masters of defence studies.

 

[Sillybilly]

For those who haven't been to Deborah Rashotte's thread today, there is reportedly a massive LE presence on Hwy 37 north of Tweed (Hawkins Bay Rd and Byers Rd area ... Deborah's dad apparently lives in the area)

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2462399

http://www.mix97.com/news/2010/02/police-search-near-actinolite-for-deborah-rashotte/

Not looking good, but still offering up prayers here for this young gal.

 

[Summersolstice]

Crawling through the fumes here ...

RW's connection to Grozelle and Mendes can be summarized as follows:

2001 - Michelle Mendes graduated from RMC and went on to marry (date unknown) Victor Mendes, the RMC soccer coach

2001 to 2003 - Joe Grozelle was attending RMC when he disappeared in 2003. His girlfriend at the time was Melissa Haggart who was on the women's soccer team. At the same time, RW was at RMC doing his masters of defence studies.

The military says RW was not in Kingston, but in Toronto, with the RMC:

http://www.windsorstar.com/entertainment/Military+disputes+link+dead+cadet/2559456/story.html

 

[pinkeyesucks]

Yes, it's the paint fumes. Joe Grozelle was Melissa Haggart's boyfriend.

Think I'll go open the window a little wider

 

[Sillybilly]

The military says RW was not in Kingston, but in Toronto, with the RMC ...

Smellin' sumpin' fishy ?

My original notes and the following link (one of many):

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...al+military+college"&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

According to his biography on a Department of National Defence website, Williams moved to Kingston in August 2003 to study in the Canadian Forces Command and Staff Course. He graduated from RMC the following June

 

[Sillybilly]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html

August 2003 to June 2004
Williams obtains a master's of defence studies from the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ont.

and from The Star:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...++"russell+williams"&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

From the tiny Manitoba community to Halifax in the early 1990s, he continued to rise through the ranks. He attended the Royal Military College in Kingston where he received his master's degree, then was promoted to lieutenant-colonel and appointed commanding officer of 437 Transport Squadron in Trenton in 2004. It was there, in July 2009 he took charge of Canada's largest airbase, Williams rose from one posting to the next, notching up perfect reviews, medals and promotions.

 

[pinkeyesucks]

I'm thinking there may be a bigger picture, and that it might be worse than what my imagination can muster. There's something about that reported quick confession that makes me scratch my head (which is sometimes in the clouds).

Yeah that's my problem too Summer....One day I think okay, quick confession, maybe it's just that- ....then I end up laying awake at night thinking there is WAY more to this story than we will ever know.

 

[Summersolstice]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html

Yes, it's the "moved to Kingston" thing that doesn't match up, isn't it? And then there's this, which is probably why Joe Grozelle's dad would like to know exactly where RW was, and when:

http://www.rmc.ca/aca/ws-eg/index-eng.asp

"The core program is located at RMC’s campus in Kingston, Ontario with distance learning opportunities available at military sites across Canada. With some war studies courses available through WebCT, students can take courses from virtually anywhere in the world."

Where is "anywhere in the world"? Gee, the military removed his biography from their website.

Another thing that is so very odd: why would the military send RW's personal friend to court to be the military's "eyes and ears" in the RW case? For purposes of appearing impartial, it should be obvious that someone who had no personal, and preferably no professional contact with RW should be attending. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...r-case-put-over-till-march-25/article1473795/)

Lieutenant-Colonel Tony O'Keeffe is from RMC Kingston, and is apparently a PR man for the military. I wonder how long O'Keeffe has been at RMC, and whether he was there during the troubles in 2002.

 

[Sillybilly]

googling Tony O, found http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/ReferencesView.aspx?PersonID=1252435240

with a defunct link to:

www.rmcc.forces.gc.ca/news_avis/080114_varrun_e.html - [Cached Version]
Last Visited: 12/10/2008

which says in part:

"I am personally delighted to see varsity running make its way back to RMC's sports program," states Lieutenant-Colonel Tony O'Keeffe, RMC's Military Director of Athletics.

So, it would seem that at some point in 2008(?), RW's good friend Tony O'Keefe was Director of Athletics at RMC. Hmm .. i guess if you are a soccer coach and at some point the Director happens to be good budds with RW, that makes it a bit of a sticky-wicket, eh?