Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

  • #401
RCMP believe auntie and grandma are receiving assistance to stay hidden (and IMO no LE agency worth their salt would state something like that publicly if they didn't have evidence to lead them to believe it), yet the co-counsel for mom is talking about concerns for their safety and their bodies showing up somewhere?

Essentially accusing the RCMP of not pursuing any other "alternative".

I'm calling Lawyer Baloney 101.

I think mom knows exactly where they are, and I think once they're all located, she'll be charged as well as her mother and her sister.

As they should be, for defying a court order and kidnapping those children.

jmo

Agree. The lawyer’s clients aren’t the children, it’s the mother, and it’s a defense attorney’s job to present the client in the best light possible and to muddy the waters of any theory that implicates the client. Of course the lawyer is going to spit out some BS about someone else abducting them and dumping their bodies somewhere, hoping a future potential juror hears it buys into it.
 
  • #402
This strikes me as the lawyer telling the mother and her family whatever they want to hear. The mother wants full custody of the children and to exclude the father from the children's lives. She believes that by replacing the Judge, she'll get what she wants.

"Castle said ... The girls’ mother is requesting a stay of the March 12 custody decision and recusal of the judge who rendered the judgment, stating “due process has not been followed.” (link)
Let's suppose that the mother's family produces the children and custody is reconsidered by the courts.

Isn't it more realistic that the abduction has severely compromised any chance that the mother has of securing sole custody, and that, when the father's rights are considered, unsupervised access by the mother or her family poses a serious risk that the children will once again disappear?
 
  • #403
I still think the “end game” could be that the abductors are taking this time to condition and indoctrinate the young children to say “all the right things” to claim sexual and/or physical abuse by the father and then the abductors claim they had to abduct the children for their own safety. Huge gamble but I think they are desperate because they are losing custody.
 
  • #404
I still think the “end game” could be that the abductors are taking this time to condition and indoctrinate the young children to say “all the right things” to claim sexual and/or physical abuse by the father and then the abductors claim they had to abduct the children for their own safety. Huge gamble but I think they are desperate because they are losing custody.

There is no question that any investigation by the Alberta Children's Hospital in Calgary regarding allegations of abuse is 100% tainted because the children have likely been coached to disparage their father. The lawyer knows that statements from the children are unreliable given the continuous exposure to the family that is seeking to discredit, and damage the reputation of, the father.

I call rubbish, hogwash and nonsense regarding this claim:

"Castle said the case is one of the most unique she’s seen in her 32-year career" (link)​

The mother and her family may think that the path they have chosen is unique, but the courts have seen this exact situation many times before. Any lawyer with 32 years experience knows this well.

Furthermore, the lawyer ought to know that allegations of child abuse should immediately be brought to the attention of the family doctor, who will refer the children to a team at the Children's Hospital to investigate the validity of allegations. These concerns should obviously not be brought to the RCMP, as RCMP cannot assess a parent's interpretation of preschoolers' claims of abuse. Hopefully the lawyer provided competent advice regarding the correct process to address allegations of child abuse.

The Children's Hospital will conduct medical examinations and interviews with the children over a period of a few months, compile a report and submit it to the courts. The courts will act on that report. Based on information that has been released about the custody dispute, it seems that the mother bypassed medical assessment of abuse, and expected RCMP to take action based exclusively on her statements. It seems that the lawyer may have omitted providing information to the mother regarding the most important step in assessing whether abuse occurred.
 
  • #405
There is a possibility that allegations of child abuse did result in the mother prioritizing the children's well-being over custody battles, and that, upon learning of abuse, the children were immediately delivered to the care of the family doctor. That is the right thing to do in authentic child abuse situations.

If that happened, it resulted in immediate referral to the Alberta Children's Hospital where the children are being, or have been, assessed and treated by medical and health professionals for the possibility of child abuse. Since the Judge ruled on March 12 that the father has sole custody, one has to conclude that there is no child abuse investigation to support claims of abuse.

However, if the mother took allegations of child abuse directly to RCMP during an acrimonious custody dispute, and then became critical of RCMP for not taking action, the I see that as prioritizing custody over the welfare of the children. Injured children must be seen by a medical doctor, not the RCMP.

If the mother's first decision after fearing that the children were injured was to contact RCMP and demand that they prevent the father from access to the children, then we know that the mother's first and foremost priority is not the children's best interest, and that allegations of abuse are most likely unfounded.
 
  • #406
There is a possibility that allegations of child abuse did result in the mother prioritizing the children's well-being over custody battles, and that, upon learning of abuse, the children were immediately delivered to the care of the family doctor. That is the right thing to do in authentic child abuse situations.

If that happened, it resulted in immediate referral to the Alberta Children's Hospital where the children are being, or have been, assessed and treated by medical and health professionals for the possibility of child abuse. Since the Judge ruled on March 12 that the father has sole custody, one has to conclude that there is no child abuse investigation to support claims of abuse.

However, if the mother took allegations of child abuse directly to RCMP during an acrimonious custody dispute, and then became critical of RCMP for not taking action, the I see that as prioritizing custody over the welfare of the children. Injured children must be seen by a medical doctor, not the RCMP.

If the mother's first decision after fearing that the children were injured was to contact RCMP and demand that they prevent the father from access to the children, then we know that the mother's first and foremost priority is not the children's best interest, and that allegations of abuse are most likely unfounded.

I wonder if the mother is still overly hostile over the divorce initiated by him, often misconstrued as personal rejection. So her only weapon against him is using the children, an outlet to express her anger.

To my way of thinking if the dad was a child abuser why would he initiate the divorce, then proceed to battle for custody? I’d think a husband in that situation would prefer to maintain the status quo. JMO
 
  • #407
I wonder if the mother is still overly hostile over the divorce initiated by him, often misconstrued as personal rejection. So her only weapon against him is using the children, an outlet to express her anger.

To my way of thinking if the dad was a child abuser why would he initiate the divorce, then proceed to battle for custody? I’d think a husband in that situation would prefer to maintain the status quo. JMO

No doubt the O'Driscoll mother was angry when her husband filed for divorce. In my opinion, she seems to view her children as the only retaliatory pawn, or weapon, in her toolbox. This is evident in her poor choices for addressing best practice when aware of child abuse.

Although I don't know the specific history of custody, my impression is that the children, by consent, initially remained with the mother. However, as time went by, it appears that the mother made it increasingly difficult for the father to see the children. That escalated the divorce to an unnecessary acrimonious custody dispute where parents behave badly and the children pay a lifelong price.

If the father was a child abuser, he would not have been awarded sole custody after almost two years of allegations against his parenting skills. If he wanted to abuse his children, not only would he keep them and co-conspirators closes, but all of his daughters would be prepared to testify against him. That's not the case. Older daughters are not party to abuse allegations.
 
  • #408
Some wild thoughts ... opinions at this time - the Lawyer is at least "milking this case" for all she can get, if nothing else. The kid's Mother has lied to her sister and her Mother about "abuse" of any kind (she is just one of those "I have to have my way, no matter how or what I have to do" people). Some older friends of the sister or mother are hiding them all out.

Realistic or fantasy?
 
  • #409
Some wild thoughts ... opinions at this time - the Lawyer is at least "milking this case" for all she can get, if nothing else. The kid's Mother has lied to her sister and her Mother about "abuse" of any kind (she is just one of those "I have to have my way, no matter how or what I have to do" people). Some older friends of the sister or mother are hiding them all out.

Realistic or fantasy?

It wouldn’t surprise me if friends of family members are involved.

This fued/abduction so far beyond a typical ex-husband and ex-wife sorting through custody issues. It’s resembles an out of control tsunami. Is the mother leading it I wonder or is she getting swept along by her other family members? Not many grandmothers or aunts who I know would agree to abduct children...in fact not any.
 
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  • #410
It wouldn’t surprise me if friends of family members are involved.

This fued/abduction so far beyond a typical ex-husband and ex-wife sorting through custody issues. It’s resembles an out of control tsunami. Is the mother leading it I wonder or is she getting swept along by her other family members? Not many grandmothers or aunts who I know would agree to abduct children...in fact not any.

Exactly, which brings up the question of whether these two children, the abducted children, are the only grandchildren Theresa O'Driscoll will ever have. Although it is clear that Theresa O'Driscoll has two other daughters, one of whom is an abductor, it seems unlikely that those two daughters have enough of a maternal instinct to provide Theresa O'Driscoll with more grandchildren. Has Theresa O'Driscoll hit the wall in terms of feeling useful at the age of 68, she sees no usefulness outside of parenting, wants to raise her daughter's children, so she abducted them?

The big picture does leave one wondering whether the matriarch has become irrational, enlisted another daughter to pose as the children's mother while they flee any possibility that the children's father could cut into grandparent time. That's messed up, but not out of the question.
 
  • #411
Really? No updates or even comments/ posts since Monday? I find it difficult to believe that Grandma and Auntie have given up everything familiar including family, friends, jobs, homes, cars ... everything - to be on the run with two little girls who might really be upset with the changes. Children pick up emotions all around them and they are too young to understand what is happening ... and must really miss their mom. This is a crazy case that has gone on much to long to be healthy for anyone involved. Please Grandma, do the right thing and bring them home to their Daddy and face the consequences of your foolish decision. Moo
 
  • #412
Cochrane Now
New Article today in Cochrane news ... but nothing new ... at least they are still looking ... Moo
 
  • #413
I don’t get the point either because assuming the two eventually surface with the girls safe and sound, given this abduction - even if they don’t spend time in prison - they will have no access to the children in the future or it’d be strictly limited and supervised. So if they really do care about these children, regular ongoing access and maintaining contact is far better than none at all, especially if the motivation for the abduction involves the children’s welfare.

If the two have no intention of surfacing with the girls safe and sound - none of the various possibilities can be good.

I really do abhor the idea of child abductions in general. I leaves me feeling people who steal or hide children consider them to be nothing more than possessions....as in “It’s mine, you can’t have it.”

JMO

I agree, but feel like often in cases like these, people think with their hearts & not their heads. I’m sure the custody battle was emotionally charged and they were devastated to lose custody of the little ones.

It does seem a little sus that mom is not calling for their return? I guess dad is enemy #1 in the O’Driscoll family.
 
  • #414
Really? No updates or even comments/ posts since Monday? I find it difficult to believe that Grandma and Auntie have given up everything familiar including family, friends, jobs, homes, cars ... everything - to be on the run with two little girls who might really be upset with the changes. Children pick up emotions all around them and they are too young to understand what is happening ... and must really miss their mom. This is a crazy case that has gone on much to long to be healthy for anyone involved. Please Grandma, do the right thing and bring them home to their Daddy and face the consequences of your foolish decision. Moo
Plus it takes a lot of funds to be on the run, funds which most people don’t have. I wonder how financially secure grandma is?
 
  • #415
Plus it takes a lot of funds to be on the run, funds which most people don’t have. I wonder how financially secure grandma is?
And if grandma has funds, how is she accessing them? Financial transactions can be traced. Is she carrying around her retirement funds in a handbag?

jmo
 
  • #416
And if grandma has funds, how is she accessing them? Financial transactions can be traced. Is she carrying around her retirement funds in a handbag?

jmo

RCMP have said they believe that the mother's family is helping the abductors. That means someone is providing cash and whatever else they need.
 
  • #417
Plus it takes a lot of funds to be on the run, funds which most people don’t have. I wonder how financially secure grandma is?

Just going by the glimpse of the rural residence on the Global TV video linked a few days ago, it’s probably not an example of the typical stereotype of a grandma’s house. For that reason I don’t think the family in general is strapped for cash. It probably costs far less to finance an abduction than what they’ve already spent on legal costs over the past year or more, especially now if they’re being provided shelter by others who are complicity involved.
 
  • #418
Really? No updates or even comments/ posts since Monday? I find it difficult to believe that Grandma and Auntie have given up everything familiar including family, friends, jobs, homes, cars ... everything - to be on the run with two little girls who might really be upset with the changes. Children pick up emotions all around them and they are too young to understand what is happening ... and must really miss their mom. This is a crazy case that has gone on much to long to be healthy for anyone involved. Please Grandma, do the right thing and bring them home to their Daddy and face the consequences of your foolish decision. Moo

It’s very hard to understand. Surely this latest lawyer hasn’t led the family to believe she can totally turn things around by getting the judge removed, therefore nullifying the custody order to the dad. For that reason are they still hanging on to false hope I wonder? But I’d be very surprised if any proceeding take place while the children are still missing. JMO

“Castle said the case is one of the most unique she’s seen in her 32-year career, noting “everything on this file stinks.” The girls’ mother is requesting a stay of the March 12 custody decision and recusal of the judge who rendered the judgment, stating “due process has not been followed.”...”
'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald
 
  • #419
It’s very hard to understand. Surely this latest lawyer hasn’t led the family to believe she can totally turn things around by getting the judge removed, therefore nullifying the custody order to the dad. For that reason are they still hanging on to false hope I wonder? But I’d be very surprised if any proceeding take place while the children are still missing. JMO

“Castle said the case is one of the most unique she’s seen in her 32-year career, noting “everything on this file stinks.” The girls’ mother is requesting a stay of the March 12 custody decision and recusal of the judge who rendered the judgment, stating “due process has not been followed.”...”
'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald

It does seem that Castle has told the mother exactly what she wants to hear. Perhaps the family is hiding the children until the decision is reversed, then they will produce the children. Could the mother think that she can blackmail the courts - no children until the courts do as she demands?

I agree that a Judge will most likely suspend decisions on applications regarding children that may, or may not, be alive. Diann Castle, the lawyer with 32 years experience in divorce court, knows whether a custody decision that favours the abductor of missing children is realistic. It seems unlikely.

However, if awarding custody to the mother, even temporarily, means that the children will reappear, perhaps that's the best strategy to encourage the abductors to produce the children. Would a lawyer with questionable ethics be involved in a scheme whereby the client is misled to achieve a goal regarding the children?
 
  • #420
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