Canada- Sharif Rahman, owner of Curry House restaurant, assaulted by 3 men, suffered brain injury then died, Owen Sound, ON, 17 Aug. '23 *Arrests*

[Calcano]

Minor(s) involved, perhaps?

 

[Charlot123]

One interesting thing in there is that the cook said the bill was actually closer $150 (not $40), and that they didn’t come close to finishing their food before trying to leave.

Overall though, based on the facts available, this really sounds like a pretty standard dine and dash by three (possibly young and possibly drunk) guys that had an awful and tragic outcome. The lawyers interviewed seem mystified by what the OPP’s reason for the secrecy could be, and I’m just as confused.

They’ll have to explain, sooner or later. Mysteriousness will only generate suspicions and rumors. The only problem I see is if the person who actually stroke the deadly blow was a minor but now is an adult. Technically the fault lies with the oldest guy but what if he did not participate in the struggle? I think it might be the phase when the lawyers are negotiating the charges. If Rahman or his family knew the assailants before (which is not impossible; we really don’t know), it might complicate matters.

 

[Ceedee]

I think whatever the reason for secrecy is might make some or a lot of sense in hindsight once we know more about it, it’s just hard for me to imagine it right now, and I think my best guess is that it’s related to some kind of other ongoing investigation. As one of the lawyers alluded to in the article, it’s not standard practice for this level of opaqueness, even in cases that involve minors, complex personal relationships or weird sets of facts.

 

[branmuffin]

Minor(s) involved, perhaps?

No way any of those pictured running away are minors.

 

[branmuffin]

I think whatever the reason for secrecy is might make some or a lot of sense in hindsight once we know more about it, it’s just hard for me to imagine it right now, and I think my best guess is that it’s related to some kind of other ongoing investigation. As one of the lawyers alluded to in the article, it’s not standard practice for this level of opaqueness, even in cases that involve minors, complex personal relationships or weird sets of facts.

Sharif was from Bangladesh and he was Muslim. I'm hoping that whoever the perps are they are not of another faith that are currently embroiled in a war in Gaza. The last thing the cops need right now is a bunch of protesters from both sides of the aisle having demonstrations which devolve into violence.

Here's a link to the Toronto's Sun's take on the silence. A couple of Toronto cops think the silence might be related to Asian gang activity in the form of shakedown activity. HUNTER: What's missing in murder of beloved Owen Sound resto owner?

 

[Charlot123]

Sharif was from Bangladesh and he was Muslim. I'm hoping that whoever the perps are they are not of another faith that are currently embroiled in a war in Gaza. The last thing the cops need right now is a bunch of protesters from both sides of the aisle having demonstrations which devolve into violence.

Here's a link to the Toronto's Sun's take on the silence. A couple of Toronto cops think the silence might be related to Asian gang activity in the form of shakedown activity. HUNTER: What's missing in murder of beloved Owen Sound resto owner?

<modsnip>

I am thinking of a very simple reason that we have not considered. People don't settle alone, there are communities, families. What if someone from Rahman's family was dating, say, the assailants' relative? That could generate a typical "the Montekkis vs the Capulettis" response, especially if the community is anti-immigrants. And the lawyers can use "crime of passion" defense. And of course, no one wants to rock the boat, if you read the comments to the article, the situation in Canada is not without own problems.

I have no idea what has happened, but this is something I can add to the examples of complex situations where no one wants to air someone' laundry in public.

 

[Calcano]

No way any of those pictured running away are minors.

I had a similar build to orange-shirt when I was in high school. So respectfully, I don't think it's a stretch. But as others have alluded to, just being minors might not be enough to warrant this silence so I'm out of guesses lol.

 

[branmuffin]

Not the behavior to be expected from the other faith and even more so, from their parents. JMO.

I am thinking of a very simple reason that we have not considered. People don't settle alone, there are communities, families. What if someone from Rahman's family was dating, say, the assailants' relative? That could generate a typical "the Montekkis vs the Capulettis" response, especially if the community is anti-immigrants. And the lawyers can use "crime of passion" defense. And of course, no one wants to rock the boat, if you read the comments to the article, the situation in Canada is not without own problems.

I have no idea what has happened, but this is something I can add to the examples of complex situations where no one wants to air someone' laundry in public.

There is no evidence the community is anti-immigrant.

 

[musicaljoke]

There is no evidence the community is anti-immigrant.

Very true. The people of the community lined the streets at his funeral. This family was loved and supported by the community, leading many to believe that he was murdered by people just passing through.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/sharif-rahman-remembered-1.6949313

 

[helix527]

I was away from WS for a few months. So happy to see the arrests.

The reality is more likely that they were average Canadians that committed a hate crime because of rising anti-South Asian sentiment in Canada. A lot of average Canadians are harboring the same extremist kind of sentiments (one can look online, even on normal, popular platforms like Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook, and Reddit to see hateful and at times violent sentiment regarding South Asians) and I wouldn’t be surprised if some extremely South Asian looking man telling them to pay up for their meal triggered something in them.

I know this theory isn’t interesting or fancy or whatever, but with the recent uptick in anti-South Asian hate crime, it’s probably what it is. More of these incidents will become commonplace in the future. And they don’t look like poor thugs to me, so I doubt this isn’t racially motivated to some extent (as there are instances of criminals attacking restaurant owners for free meals and what not).

Oh, and their clothing just looks like what average men their age wear in America. I don’t think there’s a deeper meaning behind their clothing. I’m not from Canada but I’ve been to Canada like four times now, and their clothing also wouldn’t be completely out of the norm for summers there.

JMO.

I mentioned the possibility of this being a hate-motivated crime in a post prior to the arrests:

2. Possibility that this is a targeted racist attack against the South Asian community. There have been discussions about whether or not this could be a hate motivated attack, with many singling out Rahman's Muslim faith. However, I think it's possible that the attack was directed at the South Asian community at large, irregardless of religion, and in particular, directed at the Indian community. In the last few years, the number of immigrants entering Canada has been the largest in a half century. The majority of these immigrants are from India, and this has led to some racist sentiment, especially in smaller and mid-size cities that historically have been very white with minimal racial diversity, and are now seeing newcomers in their communities. Many Canadians have scapegoated immigrants, particularly the Indian community, for current Canadian inflation, limited job prospects and the housing affordability crisis. If I were the police, I would consider scanning extremist message boards and social media channels to see if there was any chatter in the lead up, or immediately after, the event.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I think there is reason to believe the crime was pre-meditated:

As I noted in a previous post, there is something about these dudes, especially the clothes, that makes their visit to an Indian restaurant seem unusual. Their clothing makes them looks like they would be more comfortable in a family restaurant or sports bar. If you’re a Canadian, think a Boston Pizza or Kelsey’s. Unlike the UK or large Canadian cities, Indian food is still fairly niche and exotic in small town Canada.

Alternatively, perhaps the police are saying the case is "complex" because it involves members of the Canadian army?

The Canadian Forces base, CFB Borden, is about 100 km from Owen Sound.

 

[Warwick1991]

Sharif was from Bangladesh and he was Muslim. I'm hoping that whoever the perps are they are not of another faith that are currently embroiled in a war in Gaza. The last thing the cops need right now is a bunch of protesters from both sides of the aisle having demonstrations which devolve into violence.

Here's a link to the Toronto's Sun's take on the silence. A couple of Toronto cops think the silence might be related to Asian gang activity in the form of shakedown activity. HUNTER: What's missing in murder of beloved Owen Sound resto owner?

The murder of Sharif Rahman occurred in August 2023, before the Gaza war began. I can't find anything in any Canadian MSM that even remotely suggests that there were conflicts of the kind that would lead to violence between any faith groups in Owen Sound, including Jews and Muslims.

 

[branmuffin]

The murder of Sharif Rahman occurred in August 2023, before the Gaza war began. I can't find anything in any Canadian MSM that even remotely suggests that there were conflicts of the kind that would lead to violence between any faith groups in Owen Sound, including Jews and Muslims.

I know Canada is known world wide as a beacon of impartiality and embracing of other cultures and, as a whole, that is true. But don't kid yourself that Islamophobia doesn't simmer here, because it does. So does antisemitism even if it isn't related to what happens in Canada. Hate doesn't need to be triggered by an overt act of war 6000 km away, we do fine here all by ourselves, thank you very much. Muslims are the second most targeted religious group in Canada. Most of that occurred after 911, whereas Jews have always borne the brunt of the kind of baked in prejudice that seems to occur the world over. It doesn't need a trigger to raise its head. I moved from Toronto, which is one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world, and I was shocked at the casual prejudices bandied about by people who lived in the more rural environment I moved to. Nobody blinked an eye when someone said the N word, or used wordage that obviously was a slur to Jews, and the animosity toward the LGBTQ groups, even though there was a transgendered man who wore dresses in a town of 1000 people who made fun of him, never to his face though. He was a freak of nature, someone to make fun of and the kids to goad.

 

[J Sleuth]

I hope there are some Ontario lawyers here that can explain some things for us. The arrests were made at the end of July and we have heard nothing about any charges having been laid. Don’t charges have to be laid within a certain time after the arrests or the arrested get released? If charges have been laid, do they not become public? Thanks for any enlightenment on this.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I hope there are some Ontario lawyers here that can explain some things for us. The arrests were made at the end of July and we have heard nothing about any charges having been laid. Don’t charges have to be laid within a certain time after the arrests or the arrested get released? If charges have been laid, do they not become public? Thanks for any enlightenment on this.

(Not a lawyer.) We’re not sure yet if they laid charges.

‘OPP said Thursday that officers made arrests on July 30 but would not say whether charges were laid, or how many people were picked up, citing the "complexity" of the investigation.’

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7266179

I’m baffled by it as well.

 

[AndrewM71]

Just speculating, but I don’t think they would announce the arrests if charges weren’t already laid or imminent. It would basically be a nothing burger.

I know Canadian police are normally tight lipped, but this is like nothing I’ve ever seen. I don’t agree with the speculation in the article posted up thread that it’s gang related. Something has made it complicated.

 

[JDG]

It may be as simple as having three adult males but not being able to prove who was driving the car.

Which two stayed back and got physical? Who went to get the car?

Depends what the charges are.

If no one admits to driving the car, how do they go to court and say, for instance, that #1 & #2 were passengers, #3 was the driver…..etc.

From the pictures, two were running away but it was noted that there was at least one other male involved or at the scene.

Up in Canada we do not normally get any details until it goes to court.

All evidence is preserved for trial.

This is going to take awhile……I do think, IIRC, that once charged you must come before the court within some time frame or the charges get dismissed.

I have never heard of it happening with a crime involving death.

 

[helix527]

(Not a lawyer.) We’re not sure yet if they laid charges.

‘OPP said Thursday that officers made arrests on July 30 but would not say whether charges were laid, or how many people were picked up, citing the "complexity" of the investigation.’

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7266179

I’m baffled by it as well.

Just speculating, but I don’t think they would announce the arrests if charges weren’t already laid or imminent. It would basically be a nothing burger.

I know Canadian police are normally tight lipped, but this is like nothing I’ve ever seen. I don’t agree with the speculation in the article posted up thread that it’s gang related. Something has made it complicated.

It may be as simple as having three adult males but not being able to prove who was driving the car.

Which two stayed back and got physical? Who went to get the car?

Depends what the charges are.

If no one admits to driving the car, how do they go to court and say, for instance, that #1 & #2 were passengers, #3 was the driver…..etc.

From the pictures, two were running away but it was noted that there was at least one other male involved or at the scene.

Up in Canada we do not normally get any details until it goes to court.

All evidence is preserved for trial.

This is going to take awhile……I do think, IIRC, that once charged you must come before the court within some time frame or the charges get dismissed.

I have never heard of it happening with a crime involving death.

One theory I saw on reddit is that the reason the case could be "complex" is that the suspects are cops.

 

[branmuffin]

One theory I saw on reddit is that the reason the case could be "complex" is that the suspects are cops.

They might not be cops but they might be members of the military. There is a military training camp in Meaford which is only about 16 km away. I'm not sure how it works if active military members are involved in crimes. Do they get charged by the local police force or are they tried by a military tribunal. Maybe @Vern could give us some insight.
To complicate the situation even further, Owen Sound and Meaford are on Saugeen Ojibway Nation Territory. So lets assume the perps are members of that community, how would that work? Local police, reserve police? I know when I worked for the OPP, Reserves were policed by Indian Policing utilizing aboriginal officers although serious crimes like murder, kidnapping, etc were dealt with by the OPP.

 

[musicaljoke]

They might not be cops but they might be members of the military. There is a military training camp in Meaford which is only about 16 km away. I'm not sure how it works if active military members are involved in crimes. Do they get charged by the local police force or are they tried by a military tribunal. Maybe @Vern could give us some insight.
To complicate the situation even further, Owen Sound and Meaford are on Saugeen Ojibway Nation Territory. So lets assume the perps are members of that community, how would that work? Local police, reserve police? I know when I worked for the OPP, Reserves were policed by Indian Policing utilizing aboriginal officers although serious crimes like murder, kidnapping, etc were dealt with by the OPP.

Owen Sound is on traditional territory, but is not part of a First Nations Band territory, so the tribal police wouldn't be involved.

I have no link to support this, so please consider it gossip, but according to some within the legal community in that region, an update from police is expected shortly.

My suspicion is that there may be an international element to the arrests that is complicating the matter.

 

[musicaljoke]

Owen Sound is on traditional territory, but is not part of a First Nations Band territory, so the tribal police wouldn't be involved.

I have no link to support this, so please consider it gossip, but according to some within the legal community in that region, an update from police is expected shortly.

My suspicion is that there may be an international element to the arrests that is complicating the matter.

The reason I suspect there may be an international element, is because police can detain a foreign national without charges. At least, I believe so. But I am not a lawyer.