Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #3

[human]

That's just the way the law works. Fathers have parental rights. A court isn't going to take them away without solid evidence of abuse.

JMO

that is not my point. My point is that I do not understand why anyone is cheering for him

 

[nuff]

I think the children are also Canadian citizens as their father is Canadian. IMHO, he's the last person who should have custody, of any kind, of those children. There was a news clip of him with one of the boys in his parents garden and the way he grabbed the child was just horrific.

Agreed. The children are not automatically Canadian citizens (especially the youngest, who was born in the US) unless someone applies for it.I don't think a family court will compel CC to bring them here, nor do I think JB will be able to enter the US given the history.

 

[nuff]

That's just the way the law works. Fathers have parental rights. A court isn't going to take them away without solid evidence of abuse.

JMO

Using a civil standard of proof, there is solid evidence IMO.

 

[Intermezzo]

I disagree. I also think the court will act in the best interest of the children. They had a relationship with their father and he continues to have parental rights. With no proof of child abuse no court is going to deny access to his children. They have rights, too.

The children lived with both parents in Canada before the mother absconded with them to another country. Nothing good ever comes out of a court battle for custody. The kids are the biggest losers. The mother needs to pull up her big girl undies and get them back to Canada.

I saw an interview with Dorothy Lee Barnett a year or so ago about her kidnapping her baby twenty years ago. She had no remorse whatsoever for denying the father access to his child and for denying the child access to her father. The child grew up believing another man was her father. Very sad case.

JMO

MyBelle
I am wondering why you refer to CC as absconding with the children to another country?

A family court Judge granted her temporary sole custody of the minor children and granted her permission to leave Canada with them

I am trying to find a news article or video clip where the unsealed family law court document was shown. The Family Law Court judge granted her permission to leave Canada with the children PENDING the results of a custody battle.

I agree nothing good ever comes out of a court battle for custody and the children are the biggest losers (I was a child of an ugly divorce and custody issue a long long time ago)

I think as it stands now, with all charges dismissed, JB will be and should be granted access/visitation with the children.
How that will look like is unknown to us but I believe the moment the criminal charges were dismissed his other lawyers were working on access to the children.

 

[Intermezzo]

I think the children are also Canadian citizens as their father is Canadian. IMHO, he's the last person who should have custody, of any kind, of those children. There was a news clip of him with one of the boys in his parents garden and the way he grabbed the child was just horrific.

Here is the link to a video of the photo you describe to see the before and after of the photo below

Joshua Boyle plays with son at parents’ house | Watch News Videos Online

Below is the photo you described above
There are before and 1 or 2 after photos. Smiling, showing his son the garden, then on the phone hiding behind the tomatoes looking at the media across the street.
He was trying to keep himself and his son hidden from the cameras

 

[Intermezzo]

Agreed. The children are not automatically Canadian citizens (especially the youngest, who was born in the US) unless someone applies for it.I don't think a family court will compel CC to bring them here, nor do I think JB will be able to enter the US given the history.

Perhaps one or both countries expedited the process and given the children citizenship based on the circumstances.

Now I could be wrong, but the family could have received emergency travel documents or emergency temporary passports when they flew commercial airline back to Canada. (they flew Pakistan to London to Toronto)

The kids had passports while living in Ottawa, that was revealed when she fled the apartment. She also had to produce passports when she crossed the border back into the US
Not sure which country issued the passports but I will venture a guess and say they are Canadian Passports

Post based purely on my own speculation

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Agreed. The children are not automatically Canadian citizens (especially the youngest, who was born in the US) unless someone applies for it.I don't think a family court will compel CC to bring them here, nor do I think JB will be able to enter the US given the history.

Since they went to Canada, I thought they would have gone through the citizenship process and were given Canadian passports? I mean right after they were rescued, on an expedited basis so they could enter the country.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Using a civil standard of proof, there is solid evidence IMO.

I would think the whole wannabe terrorist thing would be an issue. Self radicalized, married into a family of known terrorists, vocal sympathizer, etc. This guy is going to be in the news again, imo.

 

[otto]

How much would a custody battle cost?
I doubt if he wants to waste money in that when he can use money for other things more fun for him

Tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[Satchie]

Since they went to Canada, I thought they would have gone through the citizenship process and were given Canadian passports? I mean right after they were rescued, on an expedited basis so they could enter the country.

Canada will issue emergency visas to allow people to enter the country (such as refugees without valid passports). They'll also issue temporary residence permit to allow an American spouse to live in the country for a few years
Citizenship is a whole other process and a very big deal, and takes several years to acquire.

 

[Satchie]

I think the children could have dual citizenship, being born to parents of both nationalities. It would depend on submitting the actual paperwork for citizenship to each country and then applying for the passports from each country. Which actual passports they used wouldn't matter in terms of crossing the border, since they had the permission from the judge in lieu of JB's permission.

 

[otto]

that is not my point. My point is that I do not understand why anyone is cheering for him

We may not like the fact that some people are parents, but that's the way of the world. Expecting, and even insisting, that imperfect parents have their rights respected is quite different than cheering for the imperfect parent.

 

[MsFacetious]

Imperfect parents and dangerous parents are very different.
Josh Powell’s rights were respected.
I believe this would end the same way.

 

[musicaljoke]

Canada will issue emergency visas to allow people to enter the country (such as refugees without valid passports). They'll also issue temporary residence permit to allow an American spouse to live in the country for a few years
Citizenship is a whole other process and a very big deal, and takes several years to acquire.

If they came into Canada as refugees, they would have been issued Permanent Resident cards at the time of their arrival. They could apply for citizenship after being physically in the country for 3 years (1095 days in over a period of 5 yrs.)

I'm not aware of the temporary residence permit to allow an American spouse to live in the country for a few years. This hasn't been our experience in working with refugee families.

 

[Satchie]

If they came into Canada as refugees, they would have been issued Permanent Resident cards at the time of their arrival. They could apply for citizenship after being physically in the country for 3 years (1095 days in over a period of 5 yrs.)

I'm not aware of the temporary residence permit to allow an American spouse to live in the country for a few years. This hasn't been our experience in working with refugee families.

I was just citing the example of refugees, to show that the Canadian government could expedite entry and residence into the country for long-term hostages who probably didn't have valid passports. This wouldn't involve granting instant citizenship.

Certainly, they weren't refugees. JB is a Canadian citizen, as are his parents (very importantly in terms of pressure on the government).

Do you believe the government, after working for years to get them released by the Taliban, would send them to the back of the queue to wait for entry and wade through red tape, in order to go back home to JB's own country?

 

[bears10]

I disagree. I also think the court will act in the best interest of the children. They had a relationship with their father and he continues to have parental rights. With no proof of child abuse no court is going to deny access to his children. They have rights, too.

The children lived with both parents in Canada before the mother absconded with them to another country. Nothing good ever comes out of a court battle for custody. The kids are the biggest losers. The mother needs to pull up her big girl undies and get them back to Canada.

I saw an interview with Dorothy Lee Barnett a year or so ago about her kidnapping her baby twenty years ago. She had no remorse whatsoever for denying the father access to his child and for denying the child access to her father. The child grew up believing another man was her father. Very sad case.

JMO

BBM. He never even met one of the kids, and one of the other kids was only a year old when they came to the US. so i don’t think it’s a solid argument to say they have a relationship with him, and therefore it’s against their best interest if he doesn’t get custody. If CC can put on her big girl panties and go back to Canada, JB can just as easily slip into his big boy tighty whiteys and move to the US to be closer to his kids.

 

[MyBelle]

MyBelle
I am wondering why you refer to CC as absconding with the children to another country?

A family court Judge granted her temporary sole custody of the minor children and granted her permission to leave Canada with them

I am trying to find a news article or video clip where the unsealed family law court document was shown. The Family Law Court judge granted her permission to leave Canada with the children PENDING the results of a custody battle.

I agree nothing good ever comes out of a court battle for custody and the children are the biggest losers (I was a child of an ugly divorce and custody issue a long long time ago)

I think as it stands now, with all charges dismissed, JB will be and should be granted access/visitation with the children.
How that will look like is unknown to us but I believe the moment the criminal charges were dismissed his other lawyers were working on access to the children.

I used the word abscond because that is what the mother did. She didn't have the father's permission to take the children to another country. I think she and her U.S. mother planned his arrest in order to get full custody of the children. The family court judge was Canadian and she only granted temporary custody. I think because the criminal court judge didn't believe the mother's testimony about abuse, she's likely to lose full custody.

JMO

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-custody-battle-1.4811965

 

[MyBelle]

Using a civil standard of proof, there is solid evidence IMO.

The criminal court judge sure doesn't agree with you.

In his decision, read in an Ottawa courtroom, Ontario Court Judge Peter Doody raised issues with the credibility of both Mr Boyle's and Ms Coleman's testimony.

"I do not believe her, just as I do not believe Mr Boyle," he said in court.

The two gave very divergent accounts during the trial of the events that led up to Mr Boyle's arrest.

The judge said the evidence was largely circumstantial and that prosecutors ultimately did not prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

Mr Boyle did not comment on the decision on Thursday.

Speaking on his behalf, his lawyer Lawrence Greenspon told journalists that "Mr Boyle and his family are very happy with this decision".

Judge dismisses charges against ex-Afghan hostage

 

[MyBelle]

BBM. He never even met one of the kids, and one of the other kids was only a year old when they came to the US. so i don’t think it’s a solid argument to say they have a relationship with him, and therefore it’s against their best interest if he doesn’t get custody. If CC can put on her big girl panties and go back to Canada, JB can just as easily slip into his big boy tighty whiteys and move to the US to be closer to his kids.

Doesn't matter if he never met one of the kids, the father has parental rights. I don't believe a court is going to give sole custody to the parent whom a Canadian criminal court judge didn't find credible about her allegations of abuse.

JMO

 

[nuff]

I used the word abscond because that is what the mother did. She didn't have the father's permission to take the children to another country. I think she and her U.S. mother planned his arrest in order to get full custody of the children. The family court judge was Canadian and she only granted temporary custody. I think because the criminal court judge didn't believe the mother's testimony about abuse, she's likely to lose full custody.

JMO

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-custody-battle-1.4811965

There is no basis for this suspicion. CC had a legal and legitimate right to return to her home country with the children (and undoubtedly needed her family's support and help after all she'd endured.) The criminal court judge did not say he didn't believe her, but that the evidence before him did not meet a criminal standard of proof, in his opinion. In view of the pending criminal case, the family court judge was limited to a temporary custody order.