Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Lavanda Dolce]

One thing I have noticed about CA, and I brought it up in my forum, is that in two seperate video's she has "accidently" called Caylee "Case". I'm wondering if there is something more to that. However, as we all know...sometimes we all call others by the wrong name in the same family...but I also noticed she caught herself doing it. Twice. One is in the video in which she is taping Caylee on her greatgrandfathers lap....the other is a video that was taped in the family home.

 

[evergreen]

As I'v stated my feelings about KC and talking heads have said similar words when describing KC I would like to address the issue of the word, "Charming" when desribing psychopaths behavior. I'm curious to know if others would like to comment about how a male might feel after encountering a female psychopath. Jump in guys! It is known the psychopath use an endless stream of words. They talk, they talk around, around some more & around the actual subject. They don't say, I want something from you but smother you with ongoing, meaningless, butseemingly earnest talk about other things that somehow in their mind apply to the current problem. In one word it's BS. You know it is BS, but because you are polite or insecure your forced to sit and listen It wears you down (ex. sherrif KB), which is the point so you are more inclined to give in. Try to do an honest eval on a person to get to the truth is painful to the point of euthanasia. They don't even lie directly to you, they overwhel you with distractions, red herrings, sleight of hands. You ask them a question,"What time did you get to the house?" & for the next 20 min. you never hear the word "Time" or "house". This is why Miss KC was described by LE as being one of the toughest. I think we can say the word, "charming" should be used with caution. Thanks for listening! :clap:

Men are pretty primal. I think they are motivated a lot by their desire for sex, and will forgive some personality "quirks", at least in the beginning. Also, some men are "wired" to respond to manipulative women like KC. She triggers the savior instinct in men because she has mastered playing the woe is me victim...see Jesse for example...

 

[debs]

And yes...that is absolutely acceptable that we agree to disagree. However, let me clarify once again...nobody ever said that KC was dx'd with Aspergers nor autism. I never said that. You stated she wasn't born lacking the ability to have empathy and I stated that you cannot say that. YES...people are born lacking the ability to not have empathy. Absolutely, positively. I used my son who does have Aspergers who was born without the ability. Let me also clarify that just because someone does not have the ability to emphasize has nothing to do with compassion for other human beings and life.

This paragraph makes no sense in context with Kiki's comments. Having stated that Casey was not born without the empathy chip was not to say that NO ONE could be born with problems empathizing, such as in the case of your son. It is a gross misrepresentation of Kiki's position to take such a stand against what she has said because you personally know of the possibilities in Asperger's.

Those that do not have empathy clearly do not understand when someone next to them may be angry, joking, hurting or upset. They may question that person such as "are you mad?" this is a learning tool that is taught so that they can blend into society. THIS IS NOT A TRAIT THAT A person acquires because they were in a dysfunctional family....this is an ability they were born without...or had a lack of and were not taught how to recognize empathy.

Many people are confused by so many "tag lines" that I feel compelled to speak out and clarify the whole "empathy" dialogue. It's important. The general public needs to be aware if for any reason so that someday my son is not shot dead in a parking lot by a cop because my son has no empathy and doesn't understand that he is not to sing in public places. (Like the young man was shot and killed for singing in the Taco Bell parking lot. He was told to stop. All the social cues were there. The cop told him to stop. He didn't , he kept singing and tried to convey in his way to the cop that he was a real singer...clear to pulling his toy microphone from his shirt pocket. It was at that point he was shot dead. The cop thought it was a gun.)

I am puzzled again at what this has to do with what Kiki was saying. There is a vast difference between Asperger's which you want to continue to imply is in play in this tragic case of the death of Caylee Anthony. At every turn, Kiki has presented very eloquently that it was a confluence of a great number of things that brought Casey to where she is now, not the least of which is the (still quite demonstrable) contradictory parenting whereby a child is protected from the worst offenses and punished for the most ridiculous of things. I hope in your life no one has EVER dared accuse you of having parented your son to cause the symptoms of Asperger's that makes it difficult for him in society. You obviously have a great love for your son and a fear of what could potentially happen to him due to the public's lack of knowledge and understanding. I believe you're doing him a great service in raising awareness. Godspeed with that.

People assume if one lacks empathy they are capable of committing crimes against others. That is blatantly not true...nor is it an excuse for Casey either. If she lacks empathy...and quite honestly, I question the terminology used anyhow.... Reason being...if Casey lacked empathy then how did she get along so well socially? She knew what others expected of her in a social setting. She knew when someone was upset and crying...she wasn't confused by that. She seemed to blend in quite well. Sure she has a host of problems...however, empathy I do not believe is one of them.

I believe she indeed has empathy....she just has no cares for others empathy. That was the problem...not necessarily that she herself lacked it or lacked the understanding of being emphathetic. (If my son walked up to you and stood inches from your side and you stepped away...he does not have the empathy to understand that you are sending him a message that you want space, instead he will step closer to where you moved.)

Yes, in psychiatric journals it's found that many socio and/or psychopaths lack empathy...however, that is not a determining factor. There are many psychopaths that have empathy...just no remorse, no compassion for other human beings and no cares but for their own self gratifications, whatever they may be. And there are psychopaths who may have compassion and no empathy.....we could go on and on with the exchange of "tags" but you should know this anyhow. It's obvious you, like me, have been in medicine...hence, how did you know diagnosis abbreviated is dx ? While my posts are long and dragging...please don't mistake that I am being argumentative...I am actually enjoying the fact that you and I have a total different belief in the same system. Sort of like Freud vs Skinner. It makes for good thinking

This is precisely what Kiki has been stating! Beautifully put! Casey makes CHOICES that are destructive in life, perhaps with the ultimate destruction of her daughter being the ultimate tragedy in her attempt to do what she wanted to do. There is absolutely NO question in my mind that Casey was willful in her destructive behavior, making poor choices repeatedly. However, Kiki and I have both stated that it is because of a long pattern of destructive parenting in her life that brought her to this point, not a genetic problem. Her social life certainly never suffered (until she stole from friends, but then she just changed her group of friends). She is a very selfish young woman. You are so right to say she feels for others. She just doesn't CARE that she's caused them problems, because her immediate need is to get something for herself. It is THIS that is at the root of what Kiki and I talk about. Her need for approval and love has been so distorted with the twisted parenting of punishment/permissiveness that in the end, for Casey, she had no reason to care if she got caught stealing or lying.

I think you and Kiki have much more common ground than you thought!

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

There is a vast difference between Asperger's which you want to continue to imply is in play in this tragic case of the death of Caylee Anthony.

No. I have never stated such, nor am I implying in any way that Aspergers, autism, ADHD, or any other diagnosed medical condition is in play with Casey Anthony. Quite the contrary. I am, however, a bit "touchy" on the word lacks empathy as it is used to correlate with psycho-sociopathic behaviors. Even textbooks will show that is a "symptom" of psychopathic behaviors. (lacks empathy) When that is not necessarily true. There are a whole host of personality disorders that can be used but that does not mean that all psychopaths exhibit all of the personality disorders. And yes, Kiki stated that Casey was not born with the lack of empathy. I simply stated that how does she know that? She doesn't know if she lacks empathy and or was born lacking empathy or grew to ignore empathetic cues. And yes, KiKi and I have agreed on a number of things...and we have opposite views on other thoughts, as well. That's what makes us all unique

 

[kageykaren]

Lavanda I feel compelled to share a story about my son which is something I have never shared in a public forumn, but I feel could help you understand. The majority of the public is unaware on a day to day basis all thr different types of brain disorders for ex: The many forms of mental illness, Your sons disability Asperbers and my sons disability of epiepsy. I found how much we had to gently educate everyone around in his immediate enviroment. I'm sorry to say we can't control the ignorance of others. The highschool Le officer was telling everyone walking home from school to get off school grounds, when my son didn't move (complex-partial) the officer grabbed him through him up against a car while he was having a grandmal. He thought my son was making fun of him. Needless to say, the schoolboard implemented training session for epilepsy, Hopefully society will keep getting smarter, more compassionate for those who are differently able. :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Oh brother. Maybe it's me. But aren't you and Deven way over analyzing these pics? By the way, I have not seen them. Would you mind pointing the link for me? Sometimes I think this is a no win situation for the Anthony's. I think people have forgone the entire "victim" aspect of what they are enduring. Shame. Had they not taken a lot of family photo's...they would be rotten parents who didn't want to be reminded of their own flesh and blood...now that they did take family photo's it's because they wanted to show the world they were perfect family. Good gracious. Did it ever occur that they NEVER had an inkling that the world would see these photo's and it was for their own enjoyment of memories? Had they said "no comment" they were guilty...because they stated what they felt "they're guilty". I can't keep up!

Unreal! I came to finish my post from earlier but just had to stop and respond to this post. You are telling two people that they are over analyzing pics but then you mention that you have not even seen them?!?! How in the world would you know if they are over analyzing something you yourself have not even SEEN?!!?

 

[cfromcanada]

Wow..what a debate!! I have to chime in on nature vrs nuture though. I come from a family of five children. One is now in jail for several petty crimes. He is 42 and a drug addict. Another one, an older sister, shows clear signs of sociopathy and has raised four children. Two are doing fine, one is in jail for child molesting and the other is a girl who insists on being in abusive relationships. The remainder of us, are all relatively successful, law abiding citizens that love animals, small children and old people. We are good and honest people. Our parents raised us the same way, same values, same environment...I have to believe that genetics plays a large role. However, I believe that nuture can beat genetics if parents get the help they need. When we were growing up, it was unheard of to haul your pathological liar of a kid to pyschiatrist. Old fashioned parenting remedies were applied and of course, failed.They worked with the "normal" children, why did the other two not respond accordingly? We were also farm kids and I don't think my parents would have thought of things like mental illness, sociopathy, etc. but I know they still wonder wth happened back there?!!!

 

[sunflowerchick]

My question is: Is it our society, the "world in which we live" that is contributing to, what seems to me, a growing number of particularly younger people affected with this? Also, since the inception of the internet, video games & the ever accelerating, information gathering, overloading world we are now forced to keep up with, it begs the question is "sensory overload =Sensory Depravation?

Would love to hear from the experts on this.

(Bolded by me) I know this was brought up a while ago in this thread, but I wanted to contribute something that may be helpful. There is an illness known as Sensory Integration Dysfunction. This is not a mental illness, but rather something that can be treated with physical therapy. It is an issue where the receptors in the brain do not appropriately process the senses, such as touch, taste, smell, balance, etc. They either over process or under process sensory information. I am not sure if this could be applied to KC or how it would affect someone as an adult. This is usually diagnosed and treated in children, and most people who receive physical therapy can live "normal" lives. I do think that some of KC's behaviors might be explained by this type of issue.

 

[chizap]

Such a great post Kiki, I know people have a hard time understanding this "learned behavior", referenced in a powerful book, "Memes" (basically we are born with the "genes", the ones we rode in on the bus with) But, these so-called "memes" are a Powerful set of instilled feelings injected in us from parental influences. It certainly made me think about what was hardwired in myself by my own mother, fortunately for me mostly good, & it's awarness hits me daily. I think CA has demonstrated, that appearances & self preservation, at any cost, are paramount to humility & accountability. We have seen her unendless defense of the absurd, & now witness these same traits in KC to the extreme. CA is a force to be reckoned with! I feel anyone contending with her type of personality,(George included) would need a coat of armor, to maintain their own convictions & beliefs. Her will prevail. It's not difficult for me to see how KC developed indifference & lack of empathy. I also feel she loved Caylee, whose death resulted in some unsupervised moment. It is also unfathomable, to me, how she could withstand the crushing horror of what happened, shelve it, & go on living! I haven't heard it discussed here, so I'll throw it out to all on this thread. When I have watched the interviews with Greta, at the Anthony home, the overly conspicuous consumption of stuffed animals (which Greta commented, "I've never seen so many stuffed animals" & CA replied, "that's nothing, there's more"), toys, pictures, momentos of everything Caylee, the backyard Romper Room scene, seem so overly indulgent for 1 child, in light of the fact, that there is so much debt & apparently only one income?? Has anyone else thought it strange? Excessive emphasis on Caylee, mostly by CA paints a very disturbing picture to me, not to say grandchildren, aren't spoiled, especially by grandparents, but within their means. JMO!

KC's lack of emotion, when LA asked, "what's in this for you" (strange question) "why are you letting the police get involved?", her reply said it all, it was the one moment of clarity & truthfulness I've heard from KC, "Maybe I have been an unfit mother, a bad daughter, & bad sister, maybe this should have been done a long time ago"

bolded by me-the lies of the entire family have given this unfortunate situation its "over the top" circuslike atmosphere- but THIS TRUTH stated by KC is loud and clear to me along with some other truths she has laced in amongst the "storyline"
She said it loud and clear ..."from Day One (day 31)"

 

[chizap]

Lavanda I feel compelled to share a story about my son which is something I have never shared in a public forumn, but I feel could help you understand. The majority of the public is unaware on a day to day basis all thr different types of brain disorders for ex: The many forms of mental illness, Your sons disability Asperbers and my sons disability of epiepsy. I found how much we had to gently educate everyone around in his immediate enviroment. I'm sorry to say we can't control the ignorance of others. The highschool Le officer was telling everyone walking home from school to get off school grounds, when my son didn't move (complex-partial) the officer grabbed him through him up against a car while he was having a grandmal. He thought my son was making fun of him. Needless to say, the schoolboard implemented training session for epilepsy, Hopefully society will keep getting smarter, more compassionate for those who are differently able. :blowkiss:

I am sensitive to this also- my uncle was beat to death by LAPD while he was having an epilectic attack - they thought he was drunk in public- It was some time ago and not too much was known about epilepsy back then- Sorry about your son's epilepsy-

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda I feel compelled to share a story about my son which is something I have never shared in a public forumn, but I feel could help you understand. The majority of the public is unaware on a day to day basis all thr different types of brain disorders for ex: The many forms of mental illness, Your sons disability Asperbers and my sons disability of epiepsy. I found how much we had to gently educate everyone around in his immediate enviroment. I'm sorry to say we can't control the ignorance of others. The highschool Le officer was telling everyone walking home from school to get off school grounds, when my son didn't move (complex-partial) the officer grabbed him through him up against a car while he was having a grandmal. He thought my son was making fun of him. Needless to say, the schoolboard implemented training session for epilepsy, Hopefully society will keep getting smarter, more compassionate for those who are differently able. :blowkiss:

And I do soooooooo understand what you are saying! I imagine that had you very upset and hurt. I'm sorry to hear this. The public needs awareness and I believe parents are where it should begin. I'm not necessarily talking about parents of the child with differences, I'm talking about parents in general. They need to educate their children to not make fun of, or talk about other children who are different. Kids can be cruel...and adults can be ignorant.

I know a very nice young man who has tourettes syndrome and he has serious episodes of having a hard time going out in public because of the reactions he gets from people and I can certainly understand his fears. He told me once that he refused to go to outpatient at the hospital as he knew in the lobby he would utter repeatedly "bad words" such as the "n" word and the lobby had a lot of african americans. He says it makes him fear they would retaliate. I suggested that he carry a small business card that simply states "I have tourettes" and for it to explain in a few sentences what tourettes consists of. When he is in a situation he can hand the card to whomever may be lashing out at him.

I also worked with a young woman who had complex partial seizures who came to me to tell me as nobody at work was aware and she did not want them to be aware. She sought me out in case she would have a seizure that I be there for her. Her seizure consists of repetitive motions in which she undresses herself while in a "blank state". So you can imagine I was constantly looking out for her!

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I am sensitive to this also- my uncle was beat to death by LAPD while he was having an epilectic attack - they thought he was drunk in public- It was some time ago and not too much was known about epilepsy back then- Sorry about your son's epilepsy-

That is absolutely awful and I'm very sorry to hear what happened to your uncle. I just cannot imagine what his family went through

I've known this also happens with diabetics...with the police. However, most LE is now pretty well educated on what to look for with diabetics. They can appear to be drunk or intoxicated when in fact it is their diabetes. What further makes it difficult is that they can have the smell of alcohol on their breath and they have never taken a drink. This is why it is important for those with conditions to wear a bracelet or necklace to identify their medical need. It's also very difficult to try and have a teenager to do this as it stands out to their peers. <sigh>

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

bolded by me-the lies of the entire family have given this unfortunate situation its "over the top" circuslike atmosphere- but THIS TRUTH stated by KC is loud and clear to me along with some other truths she has laced in amongst the "storyline"
She said it loud and clear ..."from Day One (day 31)"

I think the very moment I heard the "kidnap story" and learned it was not reported for 30 days was the clincher for me of her guilt.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Regarding Casey being a model inmate, I think her being a model inmate is only until convicted. Then, if she doesn’t commit suicide, she will most likely go the way of inmate Susan S. in South Carolina ... using sex for power, which is an extremely serious and dangerous violation of rules for inmates and staff. Using sex for power and control is one of her primary survival strategies and about the only asset she has left, a very powerful tool for bartering and trading with staff in prison. Casey always takes the easy way out, the path of least resistance, so suicide is a high risk and so is bartering and trading with sex.

Only opinions,
Russell

I missed this post yesterday with all the other postings going on. ITA with every word you have said in this post. I had brought up quite awhile ago that I felt she may kill herself rather than go to prison (think Melinda Duckett) or confess. Anyway, I think you are dead on with this!

 

[txanmom]

wow, things are going a little off track here. Lavanda, did you see my earlier post about my brother also having Asperger's? The main reason i put it out there was because back then (only 20 short years ago) that and many other PDD disorder's were NOT considered genetic and WERE considered caused due to the PARENTING. Nowaday's many agree that it actually is genetic. I guess my main argument with nature vs nurture is that we are speedily finding out more and more psychological disorders DO have a genetic load. Heck, it's only been in the last 40 years or so that any of these disorders are even diagnosed and spoken about as they were thought to be personality quirks or flaws or cold and indifferent parents.

Other posters, what do you think about evolving science saying that more of these types of things actually do have a genetic component? Do you think in the future we will see science isolating these as genetic problems or will they move away from that and see it as parental environment only?

Thank you for any replys!

 

[JBean]

Good morning and knock off the bickerfest :blowkiss:
Remember, when you tell someone you are putting them on ignore, you are not ignoring them at all.

 

[reeseeva]

wow, things are going a little off track here. Lavanda, did you see my earlier post about my brother also having Asperger's? The main reason i put it out there was because back then (only 20 short years ago) that and many other PDD disorder's were NOT considered genetic and WERE considered caused due to the PARENTING. Nowaday's many agree that it actually is genetic. I guess my main argument with nature vs nurture is that we are speedily finding out more and more psychological disorders DO have a genetic load. Heck, it's only been in the last 40 years or so that any of these disorders are even diagnosed and spoken about as they were thought to be personality quirks or flaws or cold and indifferent parents.

Other posters, what do you think about evolving science saying that more of these types of things actually do have a genetic component? Do you think in the future we will see science isolating these as genetic problems or will they move away from that and see it as parental environment only?

Thank you for any replys!

Just a thought, I have 2 sons in Genetics, & their work has involved speculation that pesticides, food additives, & a host of chemicals in our enviroment, as well as the "pharmacologizing of America" has led to some significant changes in our genectic structure.

 

[PaddieAB]

How about this theory...
Many physiologists believe that the ultimate significant event in the shaping a child&#8217;s level of honesty is whether someone catches the child the VERY FIRST time they lie or steal, which happens before the age of six. Future events do not have the same impact - the brain is programmed by that first event. The first event is most often something as innocent as a child having bubblegum in their pocket that you do not remember buying for them - where did you get that bubblegum?...oh my my friend Johnny gave it to me. But the child stole that bubblegum off the shelf.

This first event does not necessarily happen under parents control - it might be when a child is with relatives or a babysitter, anyone. I believe Casey was not caught the first time, and so whatever consequences she faced for future events didn&#8217;t truly teach her that lying was wrong. She was bright enough to learn how to manipulate and appease her parents - she became adept at feeding their love with apologies and a flash of a smile - she plays on their love, hope and forgiveness - and we saw lots of this during the tapes of the jail interviews.

While many are blaming Casey&#8217;s parents for how she was raised, I notice no discussion at all around the significance of peer pressure, which plays an even greater role throughout and onward of adolescence.

So lets talk about adolescence. As a child who lies grows older what should happen is they learn they can&#8217;t lie and deceive friends, bosses or co-workers, even if it worked to manipulate their &#8220;stupid parents&#8221;. The consequence of lying to good friends is that friends drop them like flies. This didn&#8217;t happen even in the most significant point in Casey&#8217;s life - when Caylee was born. Look at her relationship with Jesse. She conned him through and through. But three years later Jesse still defends Casey as some lovely person he once knew - even after the fact now knowing she played a role in the death of Caylee. What were the consequences of conning people that Casey learned from Jesse? That she could lie and deceive and still be loved? (Two peas in a pod IMO.)

We know that the friends Casey went on to choose recently were not looking for a Casey/daughter relationship, so I imagine for them it was easy to believe the nanny stories. Casey conned her friends about her entire lifestyle. However at the time they didn&#8217;t realize they were being conned - Casey didn&#8217;t get caught - so no consequences to her, in fact she played the &#8220;good mother&#8221; role with everyone - not just her parents. (I'm in no way blaming friends - just saying she was adept at conning...)

So IMO awfully one-sided to throw Casey&#8217;s parents in the enabling bucket alone without looking at EVERYONE around Casey. Everyone influences everyones thoughts and actions in some way - if we chose to play the blame game. Is everyone then accountable - her parents and each of her friends? Of course not!

Casey is responsible for whatever she did to Caylee. She is not insane as she has the ability to admit lying to LE about her job at Universal Studios. This is her time to tell the complete truth, REGARDLESS of who she draws into it, and face the consequences. Instead she has fallen into the net of yet another pack of enablers who are preventing her from facing consequences for her actions - called her defense team.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Unreal! I came to finish my post from earlier but just had to stop and respond to this post. You are telling two people that they are over analyzing pics but then you mention that you have not even seen them?!?! How in the world would you know if they are over analyzing something you yourself have not even SEEN?!!?

It's overanalyzing when one is talking about looking at pics of family photo's and then to state "they were staged to let the world think they are a perfect family". That's overanalyzing. One doesn't have to see the pics to understand that. right?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

wow, things are going a little off track here. Lavanda, did you see my earlier post about my brother also having Asperger's? The main reason i put it out there was because back then (only 20 short years ago) that and many other PDD disorder's were NOT considered genetic and WERE considered caused due to the PARENTING. Nowaday's many agree that it actually is genetic. I guess my main argument with nature vs nurture is that we are speedily finding out more and more psychological disorders DO have a genetic load. Heck, it's only been in the last 40 years or so that any of these disorders are even diagnosed and spoken about as they were thought to be personality quirks or flaws or cold and indifferent parents.

Other posters, what do you think about evolving science saying that more of these types of things actually do have a genetic component? Do you think in the future we will see science isolating these as genetic problems or will they move away from that and see it as parental environment only?

Thank you for any replys!

Yes, I believe I did reply to your post? My apologies if I didn't. Science and medicine has come a long way. Thank goodness!!