Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[kiki the parrot]

But KC has done None of that. Her attention never went away from herself and to the "accident" victim. She has been secretive, dishonest, gone underground, was never going to report it, did not ask for support or help, and evidence suggests she may even have planned it. And now we find the victim here wrapped in a bag and thrown in a garbage heap, which is not indicative of an accident victim. LE knows how to tell one parent from the other and gave KC every opportunity to come clean and admit it was a terrible accident. She did not. LE has profiles of parents who caused a terrible accident by neglect or a mistake, and parents who commit these terrible crimes on their children. LE has concluded, after considerable analysis of the facts and evidence, that KC is most likely part of the latter category.

(respectfully snipped) Hmm, wonder where she learned this self-preservation and these irresponsible, blameshifting, deceitful behaviors... Is it possible the values were, if not taught openly, at least tolerated or even subtly modelled while growing up? Could it be that small lies overlooked led to bigger lies... If we call our children only on the lies that cause us inconvenience and embarassment while turning a blind eye to the ones that make things less stressful, or "normalize" what's going on in the home eg we are headed for trouble. Parents who either model, or excuse "little white lies" all along, instead of instilling in their child very early on the value of truthfulness, are planting seeds that will bear fruit for years to come. And will be in for a real ride when it comes time to hold their teen accountable, for whom deception has been ingrained, only now the child can outwit them--and the ante has soared. I don't think KC from a baby was predestined or predisposed to lie and deceive any more than she was programmed to blameshift. Could it be excuses had long been accepted and consequences spared? Could a lack of empathy, exploitation, the sense of entitlement and a hardened have resulted from an overbearing parent who ran her brain, and having to fight for even the right to disagree or have an opinion of her own? Or from enmeshment with a parent for whom children were seen as mere extensions of herself. KC wasn't just born missing the "empathy chip." Of course CA didn't "make" KC murder--and neglect alone can easily cause the death of a toddler--but we shouldn't minimize the role of the parent in shaping and forming who our children become--and whether they ever grow up or develop a spine, or a moral compass. I am not disagreeing w your assessment of who KC became, I'm taking issue w/ how she got there.

this is a brilliant post, i totally agree! because if you think about it, ca mother (or father) would have had to be a narcissist to have raised her to be one, to have ultimately raised kc to be this way. so far, we haven't seen anything that indicates this.

Also, I cannot imagine how hard it was to raise her, i am sorry to say this but those pics of KC as a baby and child spooked the heck outta me. she had the same creepy mask/smile she has in every single picture i have seen of her.

this is the most interesting thread and i agree in part with both sides of the debate. i love how you are all debating and there is so much i have learned or validated about my own thoughts from those of yours. ahhh, the old nature vs. nurture debate brings back so many memories of college.

Has anyone here read the book "We Need To Talk About Kevin" by L. Shriver (mods if i referenced that wrong please let me know the correct way?)? It is an excellent look into this debate. It is a fictional story about a boy who as a teen massacres his classmates in a gymnasium. It depicts the relationship between the mother, son who commits the crime, sister, and father. It eerily parallels Kc's actions. I HIGHLY recommend it.

(bold mine) While KC's features as a baby may not have been, in the opinion of some, as cute as her daughter's who we all came to love and adore, to go as far as referring to any baby or small child as "creepy" seems a little childish. We're simply recognizing the same features we've come to associate w/ her abhorrent behavior as an adult. And I disagree completely that we see no signs of narcissistic parenting, or parent-centered parenting! (On one hand, CA eg will neither give KC "permission" to relinquish parental responsibility by refusing to allow KC to adopt out Caylee as KC planned as KC knows and admits she isn't prepared to make the sacrifices of parenting. But neither will CA entirely assume the responsibility. Above her protests, CA talks KC out of giving away "her grandchild" so it could be argued CA should therefore assume full responsibility. And not only by footing the bill or assuming those responsibilities when it's convenient for her, as she goes along steadily reminding KC of all she's doing and maligning her daughter, and particularly while it is also gratifying some need of her's as a needy parent is so apt to do... just one eg). And I don't have any trouble at all imagining "how hard it was to raise KC" or more accurately, to live w/ KC after failing to raise her w/ boundaries or limits. Many parents are simply in need of a better working definition of "love." Because every parent who loves their child disciplines them. Yet how often, in trying to spare children consequences, we do them such a disservice, confusing accountability w/ unforgiveness, and by equating love with licentiousness. No this job isn't for the fainthearted nor weakkneed, requires skills and sacrifices, and doesn't lend itself well to "winging it." JMO

While working on an adolescent psych. inpatient unit I realized many parents of teens who have acting out behaviors think this is a phase their child is going through and they will work out of it. These are pts. who have not hurt themselves or others at this point. After a short stay of one month they return home, behavior escaltes to harming self by stealing lying, physical harm, everything pointing to sciopathic behaviors, possible dual diagnosis of mental illness & so on. By the time adulthood arises, parents thenn start to understand they are dealing with a severe problem. The pt. may get better or just placid until the next wave of deviant behavior starts. I am no fan of the A's. I feel if a counselor for KC in highschool would have approached the A's with concern for KC's acting out in some ways, they would have been offended and chose to ignore any slightest problem. Very common for we parents to stick our heads in the ground when our own personal lives are anxiety ridden & we just don't choose to believe the worst for the ones we love. All those stuffed animals, model home look was to say to the world, "See, we love her." Caylee was never on the backburner of our, dysfunctional, broke, mistruth family life.

ITA. You can not look the other way, go on ignoring all the warning signs... minimizing, normalizing, and sanitizing problems, excusing, and enabling for 22 years... and then one day look up and wonder, "Where did we go wrong??" CA seems to have had some sort of idealized fantasy of what the perfect family should look like, and feels pressure apparently to project this. JMO

An example of mixed messages given by CA to Kc was in the jail visitation video where CA tells KC when she returns home after all this is figured out she doesn't have to work. What!!! isn't KC sitting in jail at that time because she wasn't responsible. Wasn't the choke hold because of KC lack of being responsible that she chooses to steal. I was blown away to hear a mother after all that had occured tell her daughter she wouldn't have to work.

(bold mine) THANK YOU! I about fell out of my chair on that one myself... (that is after I picked myself up from GA's, "Maybe we were too domineering...") Just plain crazymaking. JMO2!

 

[txanmom]

(respectfully snipped) Hmm, wonder where she learned this self-preservation and these irresponsible, blameshifting, deceitful behaviors... Is it possible the values were, if not taught openly, at least tolerated or even subtly modelled while growing up? Could it be that small lies overlooked led to bigger lies... If we call our children only on the lies that cause us inconvenience and embarassment while turning a blind eye to the ones that make things less stressful, or "normalize" what's going on in the home eg we are headed for trouble. Parents who either model, or excuse "little white lies" all along, instead of instilling in their child very early on the value of truthfulness, are planting seeds that will bear fruit for years to come. And will be in for a real ride when it comes time to hold their teen accountable, for whom deception has been ingrained, only now the child can outwit them--and the ante has soared. I don't think KC from a baby was predestined or predisposed to lie and deceive any more than she was programmed to blameshift. Could it be excuses had long been accepted and consequences spared? Could a lack of empathy, exploitation, a sense of entitlement and a hardened have resulted from an overbearing parent who ran her brain, and having to fight for even the right to disagree or have an opinion of her own? Or from enmeshment with a parent for whom children were seen as an extension of herself... Of course CA didn't "make" KC murder, but we shouldn't minimize the role of the parent in shaping and forming who our children become. And I am not disagreeing w your assessment of who KC became, I'm taking issue w/ how she got there.



(bold mine) While KC's features as a baby may not have been, in the opinion of some, as cute as her daughter's who we all came to love and adore, to go as far as referring to any baby or small child as "creepy" seems a little childish. We are simply recognizing the same features we've come to associate w/ her abhorrent behavior as an adult. And I don't have any trouble at all imagining "how hard it was to raise KC," or more accurately, to live w/ KC after failing to raise her w/ boundaries or limits. Many parents are simply in need of a better working definition of "love." Because every parent who loves their child disciplines them. Yet how often, in trying to spare children consequences, we do them such a disservice, confusing accountability w/ unforgiveness, and by equating love with licentiousness. No this job is not for the fainthearted or the weakkneed, requires skills and sacrifices, and doesn't lend itself well to "winging it." JMO



ITA. You can not look the other way, go on ignoring all the warning signs... minimizing, normalizing, and sanitizing problems, excusing, and enabling for 22 years... and then one day look up and wonder, "Where did we go wrong??" CA seems to have had some sort of idealized fantasy of what the perfect family should look like and feels pressure to project this. JMO



(bold mine) THANK YOU! I about fell out of my chair on that one myself... (that is after I picked myself up from GA's, "Maybe we were too domineering...") Just plain crazymaking. JMO2!

i still don't know how to snip posts so bolding is mine and i would like to respond to this part. maybe it is childish of me, but i in my own i life always stare into people's eyes when i talk to them or they talk to me. it is also the first thing i am drawn to in pictures of people and childish or not, there is something OFF in pictures of kc as a child or adult TO ME. she just looks masklike and not normal to me. but, maybe you are right about the things i know about her now coloring my view of her. but, i will tell you this, i often get gut feelings about people and so far i have never been wrong, in my own life anyways.

kiki, i like all of your posts i think all of you on this thread are extremely intelligent and insiteful to me at least and i really like learning from you.

ps. i know my spelling is atrocious, sorry....(insert little embarrassed smiley here)

 

[Brini]

(my bold)

ITA NO one is responsible for the path Casey has chosen except Casey.

There is dysfunction in the family to be sure; but I have always believed it was largely created and perpetuated by Casey. The one person who has repeatedly and mercilessly, without shame or remorse- used and abused every single person in her family for her own selfish gain; with precious little Caylee paying the ultimate price.

She continues to do it to them to this very day.

And, everybody enabled her. Until that fateful family fight, after whih she killed her daughter.

KC was "entitiled" not to be confronted.

 

[Brini]

You folks are just SO hot, on this thread! This is one of the best w/s debates, ever!

 

[Devon]

When I first saw those baby pictures of KC, especially the one of her dressed up in a Christmas outfit and sitting on the floor, the first thing that struck me was the fixed 'smile' that seemed to not quite reach her eyes, very disconcerting to see this in a small child, but I didn't see this as 'creepy' or in any way indicative of some sort of 'evil' yet to be released. What occurred to me was that she probably didn't like being dressed up and 'posed' for 'perfect family Xmas' pictures. The whole scene seems somehow artificial and her expression is certainly not a happy one. There seem to be an awful lot of similar pictures of Caylee too, and it suggests to me that CA (and probably KC through CA's example) liked to have these sorts of photos as a sort of permanent reinforcement of the 'perfect' family, proof of the 'love' being bestowed on the child and of the efforts made to provide all that a child could ever 'need'. Somewhat like a false Utopia.

Edited to add - KC has the same 'all but the eyes' type of smile in many of her adult pics too. IMO she is not really happy, just making it look like she is. All about image and keeping up a facade - where did she learn that from again?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Well, we have to agree to disagree. I do not believe a sociopathic personalitly is due to how one was raised. I believe in genetics and I also believe in misnomers in utero that can occur and specific genes or traits can be damaged and thus a child is born with the predisposition to having mental or personality issues / disorders. However, that said...I also believe that an environment, whether it be a home environment or environmental as in their surroundings, can attribute to escalation of the problem....but I don't put the blame of the problem on how one was raised as justification for committing murder.

(bold mine) Has anyone here said that lol? Since you are responding to my post I assume this is directed toward me yet I've said nothing of the kind, in fact repeatedly the opposite. I'm sorry you are unable still to appreciate the difference between an effort to understand--and to excuse or "justify." And also feel the need to misrepresent and distort other's opinions to "justify" your own. We do not even know for certain yet whether murder was committed! But please, by all means, continue in your present way of thinking and just disregard my future posts if you don't find them useful. Only recognize that in one dismissive statement you've taken on the entire study of modern psychology (not to mention 50 years of hardearned wisdom, parenting and grandparenting, which bears this out... lol) JMO

 

[reeseeva]

I hold her accountable for being stupid and allowing Casey to manipulate her as she did. I do not hold her accountable for any cover ups. Until evidence suggests such, I can't.

Lavanda Dolce, I respectfully agree to disagree with you. Cindy instilled in Casey the propensity to hide, lie, ignore & put the blame on everyone, but herself. Is it really a surprise that Casey could not own up to a mistake? CA essentially created the monster that she is now having to deal with. IMHO, Cindy is the Master manipulator, & taught her daughter, thru example, how to squirm her way thru anything.

 

[txsvicki]

I have a question about narcissists. If Casey was raised by a narcissist and that is why she turned out the way she did, then is everyone sure they are looking at the right parent? Cindy is getting the blame for everything from people on forums to George being interviewed by LE and blaming everything on Cindy. A really good narcissist would have every one believing that they are a victim and that it's really someone's else's fault. This seems to be what is being done to Cindy. Maybe she's in on it though, who knows, but what if George is the true narcissist and passed it along with nature and nurture?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Perhaps YOU have been assuming things based on what we have seen of this family since Caylee went missing, I have not! Though their recent behavior has certainly helped firm up my opinions in regard to this "family".

Did you NOT read Cindy's mothers emails, her brother Rick's accounts of his sisters history of "denials", the emails between the two of them?? Did you not listen to Lee's & George's interviews with police or FBI about Casey's behaviors and her relationship with her mother, how her mother treats her? Did you miss the fact that Casey has stolen money from her grandparents & her parents (Not to mention her brother, her brothers friends and one of her own friends PRIOR to Caylee going missing) and nobody did anything about it to attempt to teach her right from wrong?! Have you read the account from one of her former teachers from high school who spoke of Cindy coming to the school and blaming the school rather than Casey for Casey's issues (even using the term "helicopter parenting)?!

The "help from George" that I was refering to in my post was his enabling of Cindy. For example, with the death smell in the car- George said that Cindy smelt it and said "It's the pizza, isn't it George?" and George, IMO knowing full well what the smell was told her yes, it was the smell of the pizza rotting. I see George what for he is, you don't have to try and convince me LOL. I do disagree with you though that he "blows smoke around in mirrors in that house", I think each member of that family sees George for what he is and remind him of it often.

One, as always YOU ROCK :rocker:
People's real character is indeed revealed under pressure, and yes only what's already in the glass can spill out lol! Please let me add, all your suffering has NOT been not in vain!!! At least you've been determined to squeeze as much insight as you can from it, and now choosing to be of benefit to others. Thanks as always for sharing, appreciate all your thoughts.
:blowkiss:

 

[kiki the parrot]

When I first saw those baby pictures of KC, especially the one of her dressed up in a Christmas outfit and sitting on the floor, the first thing that struck me was the fixed 'smile' that seemed to not quite reach her eyes, very disconcerting to see this in a small child, but I didn't see this as 'creepy' or in any way indicative of some sort of 'evil' yet to be released. What occurred to me was that she probably didn't like being dressed up and 'posed' for 'perfect family Xmas' pictures. The whole scene seems somehow artificial and her expression is certainly not a happy one. There seem to be an awful lot of similar pictures of Caylee too, and it suggests to me that CA (and probably KC through CA's example) liked to have these sorts of photos as a sort of permanent reinforcement of the 'perfect' family, proof of the 'love' being bestowed on the child and of the efforts made to provide all that a child could ever 'need'. Somewhat like a false Utopia.

Edited to add - KC has the same 'all but the eyes' type of smile in many of her adult pics too. IMO she is not really happy, just making it look like she is. All about image and keeping up a facade - where did she learn that from again?

Precisely. CA seems to be orchestrating, coaching and overdirecting videos too IMO.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Could a lack of empathy, exploitation, the sense of entitlement and a hardened have resulted from an overbearing parent who ran her brain, and having to fight for even the right to disagree or have an opinion of her own? Or from enmeshment with a parent for whom children were seen as mere extensions of herself. KC wasn't just born missing the "empathy chip."

How can you say that? My own son was born with no ability to emphathize. Which is exactly one of the common traits among those with Aspergers, of which my son has. So how can you state that Casey was not born with the ability to have empathy? This you are definetly reaching out with. People are born without that ability.

On one hand, CA eg will neither give KC "permission" to relinquish parental responsibility by refusing to allow KC to adopt out Caylee as KC planned as KC knows and admits she isn't prepared to make the sacrifices of parenting. But neither will CA entirely assume the responsibility. Above her protests, CA talks KC out of giving away "her grandchild" so it could be argued CA should therefore assume full responsibility. And not only by footing the bill or assuming those responsibilities when it's convenient for her, as she goes along steadily reminding KC of all she's doing and maligning her daughter, and particularly while it is also gratifying some need of her's as a needy parent is so apt to do... just one eg

Again, how can you say this? You don't know exactly what transpired. You said that CA talked Casey out of giving away the child? How do you not know that what she talked her out of was to not ABORT the child and instead to give the child up for adoption? None of us were in their living room or privy to that conversation. You can't go by hearsay on this.........nor can you state that she went along "steadily reminding KC of all she's done...and maligning her daughter". It sounds like you really are blaming a lot on a woman that you know nothing about. I may sound like I am totally defending her...but that is because none of the trial has taken place, Cindy has not gotten the opportunity to defend herself against all of these assumptions....which they are...merely assumptions...and all we know as factual is that the family was no doubt dysfunctional and Casey was a selfish spoiled self centered brat that expected the world to be one big wild party at any cost including ridding herself of all that got in her way.....her parents and her daughter. If it wasn't going to be Casey's way....it wasn't going to be theirs. That was her motto. Let's not forget she left the home on her own for 30 days. She wasn't thrown out. Casey was not about to adhere to any more rules set forth by her parents, nor threats...which as you know is what ANY GOOD parent would have done. Exactly what Cindy Anthony did. Either grow up, get responsible, get a job and take care of this child....or we will take custody. How can you negate that is a negative?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Precisely. CA seems to be orchestrating, coaching and overdirecting these IMO.

Oh brother. Maybe it's me. But aren't you and Deven way over analyzing these pics? By the way, I have not seen them. Would you mind pointing the link for me? Sometimes I think this is a no win situation for the Anthony's. I think people have forgone the entire "victim" aspect of what they are enduring. Shame. Had they not taken a lot of family photo's...they would be rotten parents who didn't want to be reminded of their own flesh and blood...now that they did take family photo's it's because they wanted to show the world they were perfect family. Good gracious. Did it ever occur that they NEVER had an inkling that the world would see these photo's and it was for their own enjoyment of memories? Had they said "no comment" they were guilty...because they stated what they felt "they're guilty". I can't keep up!

 

[kiki the parrot]

I think CA has demonstrated, that appearances & self preservation, at any cost, are paramount to humility & accountability. We have seen her unendless defense of the absurd, & now witness these same traits in KC to the extreme. CA is a force to be reckoned with! I feel anyone contending with her type of personality,(George included) would need a coat of armor, to maintain their own convictions & beliefs. Her will prevail. It's not difficult for me to see how KC developed indifference & lack of empathy. I also feel she loved Caylee, whose death resulted in some unsupervised moment. It is also unfathomable, to me, how she could withstand the crushing horror of what happened, shelve it, & go on living! I haven't heard it discussed here, so I'll throw it out to all on this thread. When I have watched the interviews with Greta, at the Anthony home, the overly conspicuous consumption of stuffed animals (which Greta commented, "I've never seen so many stuffed animals" & CA replied, "that's nothing, there's more"), toys, pictures, momentos of everything Caylee, the backyard Romper Room scene, seem so overly indulgent for 1 child, in light of the fact, that there is so much debt & apparently only one income?? Has anyone else thought it strange? Excessive emphasis on Caylee, mostly by CA paints a very disturbing picture to me, not to say grandchildren, aren't spoiled, especially by grandparents, but within their means. JMO!

KC's lack of emotion, when LA asked, "what's in this for you" (strange question) "why are you letting the police get involved?", her reply said it all, it was the one moment of clarity & truthfulness I've heard from KC, "Maybe I have been an unfit mother, a bad daughter, & bad sister, maybe this should have been done a long time ago."

(respectfully snipped) Devon made the same observation re overindulgence or overcompensating. You have to figure for someone so concerned w images and appearances, that must have been sheer #eLL to find herself living suddenly in a fishbowl w all your business, every family skeleton hung out in plain sight for the world to analyze on national tv. Her defensiveness is obvious, (re her childproofing, or pizza eg, "You know how hot it's been!") and is understandable. Yet it isn't the spoiling w things that is as much the issue as is the permissiveness, IMHO anyway. My youngest is six, and my granddaughter two. I have very limited means and spend whatever I have on them!! But my children also all know mommy doesn't play, when it comes to misbehavior, disobedience or disrespect. And I've always been far more concerned w what I'm putting on the INSIDE of my children than on the outside. ITA re KC's remark (bolded above) reveals both a weak conscience--and a consciousness of guilt. Even she recognized that boundaries probably would have been a good thing. JMO

 

[txanmom]

How can you say that? My own son was born with no ability to emphathize. Which is exactly one of the common traits among those with Aspergers, of which my son has. So how can you state that Casey was not born with the ability to have empathy? This you are definetly reaching out with. People are born without that ability.

Lavanda, my brother has asperger's, he's 28. he wasn't dx'd until he was 7 and then it was Pervasive Developmental Disorder or High Functioning Autism and **guess what** my mother was to blame. back then the parenting caused PDD's and autism. even when i was preggers with my son (now 11) I told my dr. about it and he said "oh that is not genetic, it is learned, nothing to worry about" and now evidence suggest's it has a very high genetic load. anyway,s you and i totally agree on this thread and i totally know what you have on your plate as a parent. hugs to you and your son.

 

[kiki the parrot]

How can you say that? My own son was born with no ability to emphathize. Which is exactly one of the common traits among those with Aspergers, of which my son has. So how can you state that Casey was not born with the ability to have empathy? This you are definetly reaching out with. People are born without that ability.

This was not directed at you, nor was it intended to put you on the defensive. As I've already said, you needn't respond but can just disregard what you don't find helpful. JMO

Again, how can you say this? You don't know exactly what transpired. You said that CA talked Casey out of giving away the child? How do you not know that what she talked her out of was to not ABORT the child and instead to give the child up for adoption? None of us were in their living room or privy to that conversation. You can't go by hearsay on this.........nor can you state that she went along "steadily reminding KC of all she's done...and maligning her daughter". It sounds like you really are blaming a lot on a woman that you know nothing about. I may sound like I am totally defending her...but that is because none of the trial has taken place, Cindy has not gotten the opportunity to defend herself against all of these assumptions....which they are...merely assumptions...and all we know as factual is that the family was no doubt dysfunctional and Casey was a selfish spoiled self centered brat that expected the world to be one big wild party at any cost including ridding herself of all that got in her way.....her parents and her daughter. If it wasn't going to be Casey's way....it wasn't going to be theirs. That was her motto. Let's not forget she left the home on her own for 30 days. She wasn't thrown out. Casey was not about to adhere to any more rules set forth by her parents, nor threats...which as you know is what ANY GOOD parent would have done. Exactly what Cindy Anthony did. Either grow up, get responsible, get a job and take care of this child....or we will take custody. How can you negate that is a negative?

Again, not directed at you. Further there is much in the endless hours of interviews, pages of transcripts, witness statements, videos etc (which myself and some here have taken time to pour thru) which reveal all these events transpired. Reports of KC's plans to adopt, demeaning remarks KC's friends witnessed CA saying about KC etc. And btw I wasn't referring to photos but to videos when I said overdirected in which CA can be heard making directives. What I've said is based upon what I've observed--and I've seen and heard plenty. Yes her daughter became selfish and spoiled--everyone agrees on that, it's a question of why and how. No need to be defensive, nor to attack me. I hate to use "Ignore" function but you really are the one who is missing so much info here. I've done my homework lol. None of these posts were responding, nor directed, to you anyway and besides, you said ages ago you would "agree to disagree." JMO ETA: To my knowledge, KC has never been dx'd w Aspergers, nor autism, nor any other condition.

 

[evergreen]

I have a question about narcissists. If Casey was raised by a narcissist and that is why she turned out the way she did, then is everyone sure they are looking at the right parent? Cindy is getting the blame for everything from people on forums to George being interviewed by LE and blaming everything on Cindy. A really good narcissist would have every one believing that they are a victim and that it's really someone's else's fault. This seems to be what is being done to Cindy. Maybe she's in on it though, who knows, but what if George is the true narcissist and passed it along with nature and nurture?

GA is the "non"...He has what some folks call "nice guy" tendencies, or people pleasing tendencies. I don't see any NPD there at all. I think he is stuck in a less than desirable situation and I hope he finds the strength to find a way out.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

This was not directed at you, nor was it intended to put you on the defensive. As I've already said, you needn't respond but can just disregard what you don't find helpful. JMO



Again, not directed at you. Further there is much in the endless hours of interviews, pages of transcripts, witness statements, videos etc (which myself and some here have taken time to pour thru) which reveal all these events transpired. Reports of KC's plans to adopt, demeaning remarks KC's friends witnessed CA saying about KC etc. And btw I wasn't referring to photos but to videos when I said overdirected in which CA can be heard making directives. What I've said is based upon what I've observed--and I've seen and heard plenty. Yes her daughter became selfish and spoiled--everyone agrees on that, it's a question of why and how. No need to be defensive, nor to attack me. I hate to use "Ignore" function but you really are the one who is missing so much info here. I've done my homework lol. None of these posts were responding, nor directed, to you anyway and besides, you said ages ago you would "agree to disagree." JMO ETA: To my knowledge, KC has never been dx'd w Aspergers, nor autism, nor any other condition.

And yes...that is absolutely acceptable that we agree to disagree. However, let me clarify once again...nobody ever said that KC was dx'd with Aspergers nor autism. I never said that. You stated she wasn't born lacking the ability to have empathy and I stated that you cannot say that. YES...people are born lacking the ability to not have empathy. Absolutely, positively. I used my son who does have Aspergers who was born without the ability. Let me also clarify that just because someone does not have the ability to emphasize has nothing to do with compassion for other human beings and life.

Those that do not have empathy clearly do not understand when someone next to them may be angry, joking, hurting or upset. They may question that person such as "are you mad?" this is a learning tool that is taught so that they can blend into society. THIS IS NOT A TRAIT THAT A person acquires because they were in a dysfunctional family....this is an ability they were born without...or had a lack of and were not taught how to recognize empathy.

Many people are confused by so many "tag lines" that I feel compelled to speak out and clarify the whole "empathy" dialogue. It's important. The general public needs to be aware if for any reason so that someday my son is not shot dead in a parking lot by a cop because my son has no empathy and doesn't understand that he is not to sing in public places. (Like the young man was shot and killed for singing in the Taco Bell parking lot. He was told to stop. All the social cues were there. The cop told him to stop. He didn't , he kept singing and tried to convey in his way to the cop that he was a real singer...clear to pulling his toy microphone from his shirt pocket. It was at that point he was shot dead. The cop thought it was a gun.)

People assume if one lacks empathy they are capable of committing crimes against others. That is blatantly not true...nor is it an excuse for Casey either. If she lacks empathy...and quite honestly, I question the terminology used anyhow.... Reason being...if Casey lacked empathy then how did she get along so well socially? She knew what others expected of her in a social setting. She knew when someone was upset and crying...she wasn't confused by that. She seemed to blend in quite well. Sure she has a host of problems...however, empathy I do not believe is one of them.

I believe she indeed has empathy....she just has no cares for others empathy. That was the problem...not necessarily that she herself lacked it or lacked the understanding of being emphathetic. (If my son walked up to you and stood inches from your side and you stepped away...he does not have the empathy to understand that you are sending him a message that you want space, instead he will step closer to where you moved.)

Yes, in psychiatric journals it's found that many socio and/or psychopaths lack empathy...however, that is not a determining factor. There are many psychopaths that have empathy...just no remorse, no compassion for other human beings and no cares but for their own self gratifications, whatever they may be. And there are psychopaths who may have compassion and no empathy.....we could go on and on with the exchange of "tags" but you should know this anyhow. It's obvious you, like me, have been in medicine...hence, how did you know diagnosis abbreviated is dx ? While my posts are long and dragging...please don't mistake that I am being argumentative...I am actually enjoying the fact that you and I have a total different belief in the same system. Sort of like Freud vs Skinner. It makes for good thinking

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

What I've said is based upon what I've observed--and I've seen and heard plenty. Yes her daughter became selfish and spoiled--everyone agrees on that, it's a question of why and how. No need to be defensive, nor to attack me. I hate to use "Ignore" function but you really are the one who is missing so much info here. I've done my homework lol. None of these posts were responding, nor directed, to you anyway and besides, you said ages ago you would "agree to disagree." JMO ETA: To my knowledge, KC has never been dx'd w Aspergers, nor autism, nor any other condition.

And yes, I have read every report, all 700+ pages of the investigative report and pretty sure I've seen all the video's. What I have not seen, however, are the baby pics of Casey. The difference is that just you and I intrepret differently. And that is not a bad thing at all. Fact is, can you imagine if we were both in the same jury pool? LOL. Folks better bring sleeping bags and plenty of coffee

 

[Brini]

I have a question about narcissists. If Casey was raised by a narcissist and that is why she turned out the way she did, then is everyone sure they are looking at the right parent? Cindy is getting the blame for everything from people on forums to George being interviewed by LE and blaming everything on Cindy. A really good narcissist would have every one believing that they are a victim and that it's really someone's else's fault. This seems to be what is being done to Cindy. Maybe she's in on it though, who knows, but what if George is the true narcissist and passed it along with nature and nurture?

GA looks too weak and "whipped," to me.

That house is a matriarchy.

 

[kageykaren]

As I'v stated my feelings about KC and talking heads have said similar words when describing KC I would like to address the issue of the word, "Charming" when desribing psychopaths behavior. I'm curious to know if others would like to comment about how a male might feel after encountering a female psychopath. Jump in guys! It is known the psychopath use an endless stream of words. They talk, they talk around, around some more & around the actual subject. They don't say, I want something from you but smother you with ongoing, meaningless, butseemingly earnest talk about other things that somehow in their mind apply to the current problem. In one word it's BS. You know it is BS, but because you are polite or insecure your forced to sit and listen It wears you down (ex. sherrif KB), which is the point so you are more inclined to give in. Try to do an honest eval on a person to get to the truth is painful to the point of euthanasia. They don't even lie directly to you, they overwhel you with distractions, red herrings, sleight of hands. You ask them a question,"What time did you get to the house?" & for the next 20 min. you never hear the word "Time" or "house". This is why Miss KC was described by LE as being one of the toughest. I think we can say the word, "charming" should be used with caution. Thanks for listening! :clap: