Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Brini]

I agree with all of the above. Except that I think it was more nurture than nature that made Casey the way she is.

BTW, watching NG I suddenly saw something I have never noticed before. In the video of Casey being led into court in shackles. She suddenly shows her evil side for a split second. A complete change of her expression - I think she mumbles some profanity to herself as well. It only lasts a few frames, then her mask is back in place.

If I talked top my parents the way she does, I'd STILL be picking up my scattered teeth.

 

[kageykaren]

While working on an adolescent psych. inpatient unit I realized many parents of teens who have acting out behaviors think this is a phase their child is going through and they will work out of it. These are pts. who have not hurt themselves or others at this point. After a short stay of one month they return home, behavior escaltes to harming self by stealing lying, physical harm, everything pointing to sciopathic behaviors, possible dual diagnosis of mental illness & so on. By the time adulthood arises, parents thenn start to understand they are dealing with a severe problem. The pt. may get better or just placid until the next wave of deviant behavior starts. I am no fan of the A's. I feel if a counselor for KC in highschool would have approached the A's with concern for KC's acting out in some ways, they would have been offended and chose to ignore any slightest problem. Very common for we parents to stick our heads in the ground when our own personal lives are anxiety ridden & we just don't choose to believe the worst for the ones we love. All those stuffed animals, model home look was to say to the world, "See, we love her." Caylee was never on the backburner of our, dysfunctional, broke, mistruth family life.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I personally do not believe a narcisstic child is raised to become such. I believe they are born that way. I also do not believe Cindy was "as bad a mother", "as responsible for Casey's personality" as many in here are portraying her.

You yourself said Cindy "finally" took a stand when she called the police....well, that is when she entered the picture in our minds. We do not know, again and again I've said this...what Cindy was like prior to Caylee missing. Looking at the overall picture I see her as a full time working mom (a nurse) who had a lot of pressures between a husband who was in and out of jobs and who had problems within his own family (george's father) as well as relocating to another state without a lot of familiar folks to support her needs...having ederly parents, a father who is ill, etc. I believe she was just too stressed to really be a supportive figure for Casey. I believe Cindy is a very strong dominating personality and she was at a lost cause in rearing Casey because anytime she did...Casey ran to daddy and that created problems between mom and daddy thus resentment was probably there...which added to Casey's manipulation techniques. So for that matter...that may have helped her grow into what she was.

I do know the textbooks will describe the parenting skills of one who is narcisstic as you described, however, I believe that only enhances an already narcisstic personality. I know too many narcisstic adults who have brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof. I believe she is what she is....as that is what SHE chose to be. Children are taught to not be selfish and to share their toys...some are just out for themselves and don't care what they are taught...they're going to do it anyway. That's Casey, imo.

(bold mine) This is contrary to everything we've learned in 50 years re personality development and learned behavior which concludes sociopaths are made, not born. This "Bad Seed" mentality--the fatalistic notion of demon seeds and psycho genes suggesting that even the most skilled, child-centered, responsible parents who discipline consistently using appropriate boundaries are nevertheless helpless to train up empathic, moral and well-adjusted children--subtly blameshifts, scapegoats, excuses away, and undermines those very well established links. For those who believe KC eg is a true, coldblooded sociopath, most mental health experts have long reached a widely shared conclusion that sociopaths are NOT in fact born this way--rather to the contrary they've amassed a wealth of research and clinical evidence proving this is instead largely determined by parenting extremes during childhood..

I am going to refuse to see KC as the victim here. There is a victim but it's not KC. There are plenty of unfortunate cases where a child dies accidentally from some kind of parental neglect. Normally, the parent would do everything in their power to save the child, they would bring the event to light, call authorities, call emergency response, get loved ones involved, show grief, show concern, be remorseful, feel guilty, etc.
Their thoughts would go from saving themselves, to saving the child if at all possible. Failing the child being saved from the accidental circumstance, it is laid to rest with dignity and the parent willingly suffers the consequences of their negilgence.

But KC has done None of that. Her attention never went away from herself and to the "accident" victim. She has been secretive, dishonest, gone underground, was never going to report it, did not ask for support or help, and evidence suggests she may even have planned it. And now we find the victim here wrapped in a bag and thrown in a garbage heap, which is not indicative of an accident victim. LE knows how to tell one parent from the other and gave KC every opportunity to come clean and admit it was a terrible accident. She did not. LE has profiles of parents who caused a terrible accident by neglect or a mistake, and parents who commit these terrible crimes on their children. LE has concluded, after considerable analysis of the facts and evidence, that KC is most likely part of the latter category.

No one is excusing KC or buying into her victimhood. I've said repeatedly that she must pay for her crimes, and that nothing w/in her past should allow her to escape the consequences of her behavior. And while I have compassion for anyone now living this nightmare, neither am I willing to blindly cast CA in the role as a sheer hapless victim of fate who suddenly found herself "trapped" by random forces over which she never had any influence. Narcissistic parents produce narcissistic children. And I've merely expressed the hope that by recognizing and understand this pattern we might as a society be better equipped to prevent the same tragedy from replaying itself over and over. If you have no interest in doing so, that's fine by me! JMO

No. We don't. We do not know the dynamics. We have only assumed from what we've seen and how they've been treating Casey SINCE Caylee has gone missing. We do not know the dynamics and/or what was done prior. We don't know if for years they had her in therapy, or psychiatry. We don't know if they reached out to support groups or other means to get Casey help. We just do not know. What we do know is the family has been in deep denial, has been under extreme stress, does not do media interviews well and has not had faith in the police because they were on the defensive in that they did not see the police put a lot of efforts into finding a living Caylee. Again, their denial to see that the police had every right and reason to suspect Caylee was dead. We saw that too. They were just too close emotionally to be able to accept that and/or to see it. And personally, I don't think George helped Cindy at all. Especially with him being a cop. If anyone blew around smoke in the mirrors in that house...was George. Cindy was trapped in it. Thats my thoughts.

Yes we do know. Despite every gritty detail which has emerged about this family there has been not one indication, so much as one person who has ever reported, nor any account given of any attempt by these parents to discipline, hold accountable much less seek outside counsel or intervention for their daughter nor to acknowledge she was out of control which would have done the unthinkable--exposed the family's "dirty laundry." We know KC would stop at nothing because nothing was done ("I should have been stopped a long time ago...") ie when KC had robbed them, LA, JG and others yet we know it isn't until she'd finally stooped so low as to drain her aging GP's retirement fund that CA in fact ever "reached out." We have instead a well established history of rescuing, enablement, failure to impose consequences coupled with turning a blind eye (to obvious lies, signs of unemployment, whereabouts, ad infinitum ad nauseum). Caylee's disappearance and death were hardly the beginning of CA's problems, nor did the causes appear overnight. It was the tragic yet inevitable consequence of no boundaries, in the making for years. JMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

Basically, in a round about way...we are in agreement to a point. (Your last two paragraphs are exactly what I stated, albeit, different words.) I think where we differ is our opinions of Cindy Anthony. I cannot draw upon how she raised Casey from video's nor her actions since Caylee went missing. The woman was under emotional distress and clearly even her appearance is compelling enough to show the stress she has been under. She went from a healthy weight to a huge drop in weight quite drastically. That woman has been suffering tremendously with stress and I will say long before Caylee went missing. I don't hold her, nor George, responsible in any way for the way Casey turned out. Sorry. Now that I just don't buy. Casey is who she is because of what she is...not because of how she was raised. JMHO.

I take into account how people behave while under stress. I think that is when a persons true colors come out, their coping mechanisms are in over-drive! They are not putting on any fronts, no acting or saving facing going on what-so-ever. You simply see the person and how they handle things and other people when times get tough. What better time to see a person in their true light IMO.

How they treat the people that rally around them (the lack of people rallying around them shows me something as well) to give support shows me plenty about who they are. The things (and people) they are willing to lie about, deny and the lines they are willing to cross show me a lot about who they are. The people they are willing to "throw under the bus" or look in the eye and call names because they won't come over to their "side" of thinking show me more than enough about who they really are.

I do believe what Cindy's mother said in her emails though, that Caylee was her reason for living. I do not think that Cindy's behaviors while raising Casey were vindictive or even meant to cause any harm, she loves her daughter (to the best of her ablility) that is obvious to me also. Cindy has lost everything that she held dear, and is now stuck with her loser husband who can't even hold a job and spends all her hard earned money. Of course Cindy has lost weight- she is going through hell, a hell I would not wish on anyone. I do not deny that!

mo.

 

[kageykaren]

An example of mixed messages given by CA to Kc was in the jail visitation video where CA tells KC when she returns home after all this is figured out she doesn't have to work. What!!! isn't KC sitting in jail at that time because she wasn't responsible. Wasn't the choke hold because of KC lack of being responsible that she chooses to steal. I was blown away to hear a mother after all that had occured tell her daughter she wouldn't have to work.

 

[indicat]

No one is excusing KC or buying into her victimhood. I've said repeatedly that she must pay for her crimes, and that nothing w/in her past should allow her to escape the consequences of her behavior. And while I have compassion for anyone now living this nightmare, neither am I willing to blindly cast CA in the role as a sheer hapless victim of fate who suddenly found herself "trapped" by random forces over which she never had any influence. Narcissistic parents produce narcissistic children. And I've merely expressed the hope that by recognizing and understand this pattern we might as a society be better equipped to prevent the same tragedy from replaying itself over and over. If you have no interest in doing so, that's fine by me! JMO



I so agree with you, and it always makes me wonder why people think that looking beyond to her informative years is in anyway a defense for her. No matter how clear it gets made that she is responsible for her actions, the mere mention of the background she comes from and its problems seems to get this response. There is so much to be learned and I appreciate these thought out and well done posts.

 

[indicat]

An example of mixed messages given by CA to Kc was in the jail visitation video where CA tells KC when she returns home after all this is figured out she doesn't have to work. What!!! isn't KC sitting in jail at that time because she wasn't responsible. Wasn't the choke hold because of KC lack of being responsible that she chooses to steal. I was blown away to hear a mother after all that had occured tell her daughter she wouldn't have to work.

:clap::clap:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think we all can agree with your statement. I think where it is questionable in this thread is how much responsibility of Casey's problems were contributed by and or caused by her rearing. I personally do not hold accountable neither parent for their failures or their successes in parenting... in what Casey became. They are victims in this, as well. What I do not understand is how the general public in knowing how evil and manipulative that Casey is...why can they not understand that she would have had to been a very difficult child to raise and that she didn't just wake up one day and become the monster she is....nor did her parents create the monster that she is. People cannot get past the total denial of the parents and seem to be attributing that to "encouraging Casey's behavior" when they themselves were not only in denial but in the worst grief, fear, stress.... imaginable. How can one not feel for them?

Well, I agree with you there, Cindy didn't create a murderer. There is nothing George or Cindy did or didn't do to cause Casey to murder her child. They are victims when it comes to the death of Caylee, I agree 100%! But I "understand" plenty about what their parenting or lack there-of did cause. People cannot "get past the total denial of the parents" because they recognize the patterns of said "denial" as personality disordered.

Listen- I understand and respect that you don't see what many others here and elsewheredo recognize in Cindy (in the Anthony family as a whole IMO) so I'm not here trying to convince you of anything. I respect your opinions even though they differ from mine.

 

[reeseeva]

An example of mixed messages given by CA to Kc was in the jail visitation video where CA tells KC when she returns home after all this is figured out she doesn't have to work. What!!! isn't KC sitting in jail at that time because she wasn't responsible. Wasn't the choke hold because of KC lack of being responsible that she chooses to steal. I was blown away to hear a mother after all that had occured tell her daughter she wouldn't have to work.

That comment hit me like a brick!

CA still doesn't get it........"TOO MUCH HELP IS CRIPPLING"

This is the same woman, whom her daughter observed, staunchly deny her pregnancy @ 7 months, to a member of her own family:bang: Again, rescue, & enablement. Bold-faced lies, irreverent of truth & honesty, & without conscience. What lesson is she teaching her daughter?:waitasec: The more I think about CA's actions, the more I hold her accountable! (Not for Caylee's death) but most assuredly for the disgusting & heinous coverup of this poor child.

"Teach Your Children Well" (Crosby, Stills, & Nash)

 

[OneLostGrl]

No. We don't. We do not know the dynamics. We have only assumed from what we've seen and how they've been treating Casey SINCE Caylee has gone missing. We do not know the dynamics and/or what was done prior. We don't know if for years they had her in therapy, or psychiatry. We don't know if they reached out to support groups or other means to get Casey help. We just do not know. What we do know is the family has been in deep denial, has been under extreme stress, does not do media interviews well and has not had faith in the police because they were on the defensive in that they did not see the police put a lot of efforts into finding a living Caylee. Again, their denial to see that the police had every right and reason to suspect Caylee was dead. We saw that too. They were just too close emotionally to be able to accept that and/or to see it. And personally, I don't think George helped Cindy at all. Especially with him being a cop. If anyone blew around smoke in the mirrors in that house...was George. Cindy was trapped in it. Thats my thoughts.

Perhaps YOU have been assuming things based on what we have seen of this family since Caylee went missing, I have not! Though their recent behavior has certainly helped firm up my opinions in regard to this "family".

Did you NOT read Cindy's mothers emails, her brother Rick's accounts of his sisters history of "denials", the emails between the two of them?? Did you not listen to Lee's & George's interviews with police or FBI about Casey's behaviors and her relationship with her mother, how her mother treats her? Did you miss the fact that Casey has stolen money from her grandparents & her parents (Not to mention her brother, her brothers friends and one of her own friends PRIOR to Caylee going missing) and nobody did anything about it to attempt to teach her right from wrong?! Have you read the account from one of her former teachers from high school who spoke of Cindy coming to the school and blaming the school rather than Casey for Casey's issues (even using the term "helicopter parenting)?!

The "help from George" that I was refering to in my post was his enabling of Cindy. For example, with the death smell in the car- George said that Cindy smelt it and said "It's the pizza, isn't it George?" and George, IMO knowing full well what the smell was told her yes, it was the smell of the pizza rotting. I see George what for he is, you don't have to try and convince me LOL. I do disagree with you though that he "blows smoke around in mirrors in that house", I think each member of that family sees George for what he is and remind him of it often.

MO

 

[OneLostGrl]

i agree w/ you completely, but i think casey is beyond narcissism alone. i believe she is a sociopath and while bad parenting or abuse can reinforce such a pathology, all the love, care, boundary setting and understanding in the world won't make it any better either.

I believe we all have free will. I was raised by a woman much like Cindy and for most of my life I allowed myself to become what my mother always told (or showed me, through her mixed messages) me I was. I numbed myself to the emotional betrayl and was addicted to prescription medication by 12 years old (the same time frame that my mother moved her ASPD future husband in with our family), by 14 I was a pro at using my body to manipulate boys (men). I had been kicked out of public schools (never got in trouble at home for my behaviors at school- my mother often went to the school and dealt with the problems without my knowing it and I'd be allowed back into school without so much as a detention), had a police record (my mother yelled at the police for arresting me for such "stupid things"), used, lied to and cheated on more people than I care to remember before I was in 10th grade. I hated myself, every day of my life, for as far back as I can recall I have wanted to die. I cut, burned and mutilated my own body, I became a full blown addict, worked an an escort, I am a convicted felon, more than once over. I sought out pain, dysfunction and mixed messages from those who "loved" me because those are the only things that had ever defined me. I thought they were all I was worth.

(I have to go get my son from the bus stop and go to the grocery store I'll be back on tonight to finish my post..)

 

[Penelope]

Dear Sleuthers--

I have been reading all your posts and have contributed a few of my own that refer to my dealings with my late husband's ex-wife and her now 12-year old daughter.

Based on experiences in my own life, I believe that Casey became what she is today as a result of the way she was raised. And THE MAJOR contributing factor is her mother, Cindy.

My husband use to refer to his ex-wife's behavior as a "curse." When I questioned him further, he explained that in his way of understanding (he was Native American), it was like a "curse" passed down through generations-- and this was literally true in his ex-wife's family. His ex-wife's mother treated her just like she treats her own daughter-- overly affectionate, love-dovey and coddling her one moment; the next moment, screaming and cursing at her, telling her she's stupid and worthless.

For years, we watched the ex-wife treat the daughter this way-- and my husband (just like George Anthony) did what he could to diffuse each blow-up and to protect his daughter as best as he could. But, my husband would never stand up to her because he was always afraid that if he was too critical of the way his ex-wife treated his daughter, she would hurt the daughter in some way or deprive him access to her.

On some level, the ex-wife knew that she was "damaging" her child with her behavior, but her "sickness", anger, and attachment to her daughter was such that she would not let my husband and I raise her. On many, many occasions, she would call my husband up and tell him about the arguments they had-- and cry to him that she knew she was hurting her daughter, but the next day she and the daughter would be back to being "best friends" -- usually following a trip to the mall where she would buy the daughter a toy or an outfit to make up for what she did. Only people she liked were allowed to talk to her daughter -- everyone else was ignored. And this woman has been in therapy for many years!

My husband passed away last May, and now, as my step-daughter grows older, I see many of her mother's characteristics and behaviors in her own behaviors and actions. And I am very scared for what the future holds for her.

It is very hard to watch this dynamic occurring in a family-- it's like a seeing two trains approaching each other at high speeds on the same track and not being able to do anything to stop the crash other than to cringe in anticipation. If Cindy is anything like my stepdaughter's mother-- no one wants to get in her path because they will be attacked (verbally, emotionally, and even physically). And, Cindy was probably quite pleased when Caylee would not do what Casey wanted-- my stepdaughter's grandmother used to get a kick out of it when her granddaughter treated her daughter the way her daughter used to treat her. It's just so sick!

Of course, each family dynamic is different. And no two individuals will act in exactly the same way. I am sure that Cindy knows, deep down, that she has contributed in a big way to making her daughter what she is today. But I don't believe she ever thought Casey would go to the extreme of killing Caylee.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

(bold mine) This is contrary to everything we've learned in 50 years re personality development and learned behavior which concludes sociopaths are made, not born. This "Bad Seed" mentality--the fatalistic notion of demon seeds and psycho genes suggesting that even the most skilled, child-centered, responsible parents who discipline consistently using appropriate boundaries are nevertheless helpless to train up empathic, moral and well-adjusted children--subtly blameshifts, scapegoats, excuses away, and undermines those very well established links. For those who believe KC eg is a true, coldblooded sociopath, most mental health experts have long reached a widely shared conclusion that sociopaths are NOT in fact born this way--rather to the contrary they've amassed a wealth of research and clinical evidence proving this is instead largely determined by parenting extremes during childhood..




No one is excusing KC or buying into her victimhood. I've said repeatedly that she must pay for her crimes, and that nothing w/in her past should allow her to escape the consequences of her behavior. And while I have compassion for anyone now living this nightmare, neither am I willing to blindly cast CA in the role as a sheer hapless victim of fate who suddenly found herself "trapped" by random forces over which she never had any influence. Narcissistic parents produce narcissistic children. And I've merely expressed the hope that by recognizing and understand this pattern we might as a society be better equipped to prevent the same tragedy from replaying itself over and over. If you have no interest in doing so, that's fine by me! JMO



Yes we do know. Despite every gritty detail which has emerged about this family there has been not one indication, so much as one person who has ever reported, nor any account given of any attempt by these parents to discipline, hold accountable much less seek outside counsel or intervention for their daughter nor to acknowledge she was out of control which would have done the unthinkable--exposed the family's "dirty laundry." We know KC would stop at nothing because nothing was done ("I should have been stopped a long time ago...") ie when KC had robbed them, LA, JG and others yet we know it isn't until she'd finally stooped so low as to drain her aging GP's retirement fund that CA in fact ever "reached out." We have instead a well established history of rescuing, enablement, failure to impose consequences coupled with turning a blind eye (to obvious lies, signs of unemployment, whereabouts, ad infinitum ad nauseum). Caylee's disappearance and death were hardly the beginning of CA's problems, nor did the causes appear overnight. It was the tragic yet inevitable consequence of no boundaries, in the making for years. JMO

Well, we have to agree to disagree. I do not believe a sociopathic personalitly is due to how one was raised. I believe in genetics and I also believe in misnomers in utero that can occur and specific genes or traits can be damaged and thus a child is born with the predisposition to having mental or personality issues / disorders. However, that said...I also believe that an environment, whether it be a home environment or environmental as in their surroundings, can attribute to escalation of the problem....but I don't put the blame of the problem on how one was raised as justification for committing murder.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I take into account how people behave while under stress. I think that is when a persons true colors come out, their coping mechanisms are in over-drive! They are not putting on any fronts, no acting or saving facing going on what-so-ever. You simply see the person and how they handle things and other people when times get tough. What better time to see a person in their true light IMO.

How they treat the people that rally around them (the lack of people rallying around them shows me something as well) to give support shows me plenty about who they are. The things (and people) they are willing to lie about, deny and the lines they are willing to cross show me a lot about who they are. The people they are willing to "throw under the bus" or look in the eye and call names because they won't come over to their "side" of thinking show me more than enough about who they really are.

I do believe what Cindy's mother said in her emails though, that Caylee was her reason for living. I do not think that Cindy's behaviors while raising Casey were vindictive or even meant to cause any harm, she loves her daughter (to the best of her ablility) that is obvious to me also. Cindy has lost everything that she held dear, and is now stuck with her loser husband who can't even hold a job and spends all her hard earned money. Of course Cindy has lost weight- she is going through hell, a hell I would not wish on anyone. I do not deny that!

mo.

ESPECIALLY when one is stressed is NOT the time to judge how they treated people around them. Oh me oh my! Those people had mobs on their front doorstep, they had people who probably were far worse parents accuse them of terrible things. A daughter in jail, a missing loved grandchild, ill and ederly parents, their names splashed all over the news, rumors running amuck, and people like us...judging and blogging about them! Oh my. Never judge anyone through the eyes of the media.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Well, I agree with you there, Cindy didn't create a murderer. There is nothing George or Cindy did or didn't do to cause Casey to murder her child. They are victims when it comes to the death of Caylee, I agree 100%! But I "understand" plenty about what their parenting or lack there-of did cause. People cannot "get past the total denial of the parents" because they recognize the patterns of said "denial" as personality disordered.

Listen- I understand and respect that you don't see what many others here and elsewheredo recognize in Cindy (in the Anthony family as a whole IMO) so I'm not here trying to convince you of anything. I respect your opinions even though they differ from mine.

It's ok, OneLostGrl...I don't mind if my opinion differs and I respect others opinions, as well. (except I'm having a hard time biting my tongue over those accusing the Travolta's of "killing" their son). Fact is, if you check out my forum (www.angelsforstacy.hqforums.com) you will see that I had plenty of negative feelings towards Cindy for quite a few months. It was not until the entire picture unfolded and I viewed all the jailhouse visits with George that it all started to fall in place for me. That's when I realized that woman is not exactly what she is coming across as to the public. There is a lot more to her and a very long ordeal that she has endured long before Caylee went missing.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

That comment hit me like a brick!

CA still doesn't get it........"TOO MUCH HELP IS CRIPPLING"

This is the same woman, whom her daughter observed, staunchly deny her pregnancy @ 7 months, to a member of her own family:bang: Again, rescue, & enablement. Bold-faced lies, irreverent of truth & honesty, & without conscience. What lesson is she teaching her daughter?:waitasec: The more I think about CA's actions, the more I hold her accountable! (Not for Caylee's death) but most assuredly for the disgusting & heinous coverup of this poor child.

"Teach Your Children Well" (Crosby, Stills, & Nash)

I hold her accountable for being stupid and allowing Casey to manipulate her as she did. I do not hold her accountable for any cover ups. Until evidence suggests such, I can't.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Perhaps YOU have been assuming things based on what we have seen of this family since Caylee went missing, I have not! Though their recent behavior has certainly helped firm up my opinions in regard to this "family".

Did you NOT read Cindy's mothers emails, her brother Rick's accounts of his sisters history of "denials", the emails between the two of them?? Did you not listen to Lee's & George's interviews with police or FBI about Casey's behaviors and her relationship with her mother, how her mother treats her? Did you miss the fact that Casey has stolen money from her grandparents & her parents (Not to mention her brother, her brothers friends and one of her own friends PRIOR to Caylee going missing) and nobody did anything about it to attempt to teach her right from wrong?! Have you read the account from one of her former teachers from high school who spoke of Cindy coming to the school and blaming the school rather than Casey for Casey's issues (even using the term "helicopter parenting)?!

The "help from George" that I was refering to in my post was his enabling of Cindy. For example, with the death smell in the car- George said that Cindy smelt it and said "It's the pizza, isn't it George?" and George, IMO knowing full well what the smell was told her yes, it was the smell of the pizza rotting. I see George what for he is, you don't have to try and convince me LOL. I do disagree with you though that he "blows smoke around in mirrors in that house", I think each member of that family sees George for what he is and remind him of it often.

MO

I think Cindy cracked and felt the whole world was against her and I guess it would be hard to not feel that way to a degree. Especially when you have mobs on your front lawn and police who insist from the get-go that your grandchild is dead at the hands of your own child. I imagine that would be so overwhelming in itself that one would fall into a psychological protective mode for their own sanity...and that mode is called denial. Why haven't we heard from Cindy thus far? I bet the woman has completely cracked up now. A very deep depression. I'll be the first to "eat my hat" if she comes out of this supporting the ol "nanny did it" story. I promise you I will. Cuz I don't see it happening.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I believe we all have free will. I was raised by a woman much like Cindy and for most of my life I allowed myself to become what my mother always told (or showed me, through her mixed messages) me I was. I numbed myself to the emotional betrayl and was addicted to prescription medication by 12 years old (the same time frame that my mother moved her ASPD future husband in with our family), by 14 I was a pro at using my body to manipulate boys (men). I had been kicked out of public schools (never got in trouble at home for my behaviors at school- my mother often went to the school and dealt with the problems without my knowing it and I'd be allowed back into school without so much as a detention), had a police record (my mother yelled at the police for arresting me for such "stupid things"), used, lied to and cheated on more people than I care to remember before I was in 10th grade. I hated myself, every day of my life, for as far back as I can recall I have wanted to die. I cut, burned and mutilated my own body, I became a full blown addict, worked an an escort, I am a convicted felon, more than once over. I sought out pain, dysfunction and mixed messages from those who "loved" me because those are the only things that had ever defined me. I thought they were all I was worth.

(I have to go get my son from the bus stop and go to the grocery store I'll be back on tonight to finish my post..)

I'm sorry you went through all of that. I'm glad to see you recognize that you are your own unique person and have self respect. I can read that in your posts. I can relate to your upbringing as mine was both physical and emotional...however, somewhere in my brain in my own protective mode I chose to "understand" that it was not me...it was her and did not have to suffer self destructive situations. So this leads me to question how can two people in similar situations come out differently? Again...I believe it is due to our own individual beliefs, personalities, associations, environments, mentors, life experiences, etc.

This is why I cannot put blame on what a parent has done to a child that causes the child to commit murder or mayhem in other peoples lives. Suffering onto oneself is common when reared under the conditions that we have been....but to commit acts against others should not be the fault of the "rearer". We all know right from wrong. No matter how brutal of a parent that may have raised us.....we do not murder another human being. That is a self choice unless it's in an act of self defence...or unfortunately, war.

 

[txanmom]

Well, we have to agree to disagree. I do not believe a sociopathic personalitly is due to how one was raised. I believe in genetics and I also believe in misnomers in utero that can occur and specific genes or traits can be damaged and thus a child is born with the predisposition to having mental or personality issues / disorders. However, that said...I also believe that an environment, whether it be a home environment or environmental as in their surroundings, can attribute to escalation of the problem....but I don't put the blame of the problem on how one was raised. Heck if that were the case...I would be a psychosociopath myself. Cindy Anthony and George Anthony are very welcoming parents in comparison to who raised me

and again another great post. i so agree with you here. Here is my take. you can have a genetic personality disorder present with all the symptoms. that person has children. one presents with the same genetic disorder with all traits, one mimics or has some traits of the personality they have been raised under but do not actually meet all the criteria for the disorder. clear as mud?

anyway, the reason i say this with any conviction at all is because my grandmother (maternal) has BPD, histrionic, narcissistic, and antisocial behavioral patterns. she was only diagnosed bpd, put on meds for that and institutionalized and given electroshock therapy. lost 2 of her kids to cps, my mother being the 3rd. she immediately after birth gave her to my great-grandmother to raise (yep, same kc scenario, my mother cramped her partying lifestyle). my mother suffered GAD and was agoraphobic from the time i was 7 until i was 28. my brother has asperger's syndrome. i also secretly think my mom was narcisisstic/histrionic (still is god love her) and i was the family nurturer/caretaker. so i have been raised by a mother who would lie at any cost (often over the most stupid things!!) and belittled me at every turn while still relying on me to clean our house, take care of her husband and my brother and take her to and from anything she needed to do.

OneLostGirl, I think you and i could stay up all night talking as the things you have written have also been in my past. only very few know about all that. i mean everything with exception of being arrested has been the case with me, and honestly i have had friends/coworkers all around me rounded up for jail and magically i was spared.

the thing is once i was able to get out from under her influence very slowly i was able to heal and remove myself from those harmful environments and influences and become a better (not great) but better me. i have some strange quirks but i don't think i actually have the personality disorder myself. but.... i DO think i DEFINETELY exhibited many of the symptoms of it in certain situations and probably still do.

 

[txanmom]

I hold her accountable for being stupid and allowing Casey to manipulate her as she did. I do not hold her accountable for any cover ups. Until evidence suggests such, I can't.

and this incident (the pregnancy) i hold as a passive-aggressive tactic on cindy's part to manipulate kc into finally admitting to HER that she was indeed pregnant. imo