Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[txanmom]

Lavanda, glad you saw my post, must have missed your response, so sorry!

OneLostGirl, my mother admitted to smoking pot while pregnant WITH me, wonder what that did? lol, may be why my spelling is bad and i have absolutely NO attention span, haha!

kiki, i agree with you observations of kc during todays hearing. i watched the entire thing (and still somehow completed all my housecleaning, yipeee) and i agree with you and would like to add i noticed she laughed or smiled 2-3 times when others in court did the same. could this be her sociopathic tendency to mimic other's behaviors?

as a side note, i was inspired to google sociopaths and what causes them...there were many articles about new info emerging about brain anomalies/damage/or underdevelopment in **i believe** the pre-frontal cortex. many older studies from 1944 and 1968 had observed parental environments as the primary cause. I don't know how to link or i would.

reeseva, i agree with you so much - i think environmental concerns and all this bioengineering of produce/dosing of med's to animals in our food supply is going to be found to have a much larger impact than people imagined on development. i have even heard because of the foods we are eating that girls are undergoing puberty and starting their periods at younger and younger ages. interesting since our life expectancy is rising at the same time.

since we are talking about kc and the entire families psychological states, what are your thoughts on LEE?

 

[OneLostGrl]

1 lost girl, I'm singing to you: "Don't go changin!", I wouldn't want you any different. These types of surgeries would only be for people who want a change. Wouldn't that be something to be able to attache a new brain wave personality for every occasion. I'm cracking myself up hear and realize I'm in an inappropriate mood today. Time for tea & dancing. Aloha!

hahah!! a mini mania!

 

[Crafti]

wow, things are going a little off track here. Lavanda, did you see my earlier post about my brother also having Asperger's? The main reason i put it out there was because back then (only 20 short years ago) that and many other PDD disorder's were NOT considered genetic and WERE considered caused due to the PARENTING. Nowaday's many agree that it actually is genetic. I guess my main argument with nature vs nurture is that we are speedily finding out more and more psychological disorders DO have a genetic load. Heck, it's only been in the last 40 years or so that any of these disorders are even diagnosed and spoken about as they were thought to be personality quirks or flaws or cold and indifferent parents.

Other posters, what do you think about evolving science saying that more of these types of things actually do have a genetic component? Do you think in the future we will see science isolating these as genetic problems or will they move away from that and see it as parental environment only?

Thank you for any replys!

I think it's both. Genetics and parenting that causes the worst personality disorders. I think with appropriate parenting (which depends on the child's behavior and problems) the genetic element can be minimized but not fully eliminated.

I think it's been proven that the most coddled, spoiled, children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. And on the other hand, I think it's been proven that even severly abused children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. No rhyme or reason from a purely parenting stance, but when you add genetics to the mix, I think that's where the real bigger personality disorders occur.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am sure KC's well aware of the likelihood she will, best case scenario, be fortunate to spend the next 70 years or the remainder of her life behind bars. I too watched her expression closely for signs of emotion, and I too concluded she looked medicated (sedated). So given this, along w/ sudden unexpected summons to appear in court, she was probably just trying to stay focused, comprehend proceedings (ie decipher arguments, or just understand the judge's decisions like I was trying to do!) and I'm not sure I'd have managed much better under the circumstances. I have to remind myself this is a 22 yr-old who prior to six mos. ago had never been in a courtroom much less institutionalized; and who has been in the jail's protective custody w no outside contact. She certainly did not appear the picture of "defiance," as some have suggested, nor of a coldblooded sociopath. To me it simply struck me as more the "deer in the headlights" expression--a little off guard as she takes in everything--which I'd honestly not seen since after her first (or 2nd?) arrest when initially held on bond. The girls' conduct was, needless to say, totally inappropriate. JMO

She looks OK, imo. She is a pretty thing anyway. She seems to be ok, though not great.. she doesn't seem happy nor sad. I wonder what she thinks of before she goes to sleep at night?

If ya'll recall, I am of the opinion that she feels, but she can just shut it on and off.

 

[Ginnie]

I guess Debs theory makes it easier to understand the mess KC has made of her life, I am eager to see if things actually play out in court as she described....I do believe it will..

 

[Crafti]

i still don't know how to snip posts so bolding is mine and i would like to respond to this part. maybe it is childish of me, but i in my own i life always stare into people's eyes when i talk to them or they talk to me. it is also the first thing i am drawn to in pictures of people and childish or not, there is something OFF in pictures of kc as a child or adult TO ME. she just looks masklike and not normal to me. but, maybe you are right about the things i know about her now coloring my view of her. but, i will tell you this, i often get gut feelings about people and so far i have never been wrong, in my own life anyways.

kiki, i like all of your posts i think all of you on this thread are extremely intelligent and insiteful to me at least and i really like learning from you.

ps. i know my spelling is atrocious, sorry....(insert little embarrassed smiley here)

I agree with you. Once you recognize the "look in the eye" of someone like KC, you can look back and see it was always there. Hate to mention it again, but I saw the same thing with my antisocial x. Vacant eyes. He had 3 sisters and one brother. Parents are well-to-do, but actually drowning in debt, but have to keep up appearances. He could do no wrong, even when arrested (that's just boys being boys). His mother and one of his sisters has the same exact look to the eyes, just vacant. I know what you mean.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I think it's both. Genetics and parenting that causes the worst personality disorders. I think with appropriate parenting (which depends on the child's behavior and problems) the genetic element can be minimized but not fully eliminated.

I think it's been proven that the most coddled, spoiled, children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. And on the other hand, I think it's been proven that even severly abused children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. No rhyme or reason from a purely parenting stance, but when you add genetics to the mix, I think that's where the real bigger personality disorders occur.

Crafti, I so agree! Also, environment plays a role...and I'm not talking so much about the toxins in the air, etc..(which can have a factor) but more the "environment and opportunities" that one physically grows up in. (were they stuck in a very low income housing area in which they grew up with the sounds of gunshots all around?)Someone mentioned peer pressure earlier and that certainly has a lot to do with the formulation of one's self esteem and I believe that also plays a role. I am a strong believer in how important it is for children to have social outlets and to socialize with those outside of their immediate family unit. One thing I have noticed, in my life, those that seem to have a lot more problems tend to be in situations in which they are basically raised within their own circle of aunts/uncles/cousins and do not have many, if any, associations outside of their "circle".

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

She looks OK, imo. She is a pretty thing anyway. She seems to be ok, though not great.. she doesn't seem happy nor sad. I wonder what she thinks of before she goes to sleep at night?

If ya'll recall, I am of the opinion that she feels, but she can just shut it on and off.

Moreso, I wonder what she dreams at night? I was reading a case regarding the mom convicted of allowing her new husband to abuse (and kill) her daughter and she did an interview in which she stated that everytime she went to bed and dreamt it was like her baby was there with her and she would go to lift her up and then invariably wake up and realize that it was just a dream and her daughter is indeed gone. I think we've all had those dreams of lost loved ones in our lives....I'm wondering if Casey has the same or did her mind justify Caylee's death to the point that she doesn't even think about her?

 

[evergreen]

I am sure KC's well aware of the likelihood she will, best case scenario, be fortunate to spend the next 70 years or the remainder of her life behind bars. I too watched her expression closely for signs of emotion, and I too concluded she looked medicated (sedated). So given this, along w/ sudden unexpected summons to appear in court, she was probably just trying to stay focused, comprehend proceedings (ie decipher arguments, or just understand the judge's decisions like I was trying to do!) and I'm not sure I'd have managed much better under the circumstances. I have to remind myself this is a 22 yr-old who prior to six mos. ago had never been in a courtroom much less institutionalized; and who has been in the jail's protective custody w no outside contact. She certainly did not appear the picture of "defiance," as some have suggested, nor of a coldblooded sociopath. To me it simply struck me as more the "deer in the headlights" expression--a little off guard as she takes in everything--which I'd honestly not seen since after her first (or 2nd?) arrest when initially held on bond. The girls' conduct was, needless to say, totally inappropriate. JMO

My guess is the "worst" case is 70 years, and best case might be just a few. Remember this is the jury system here and it's unpredictable.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think it's both. Genetics and parenting that causes the worst personality disorders. I think with appropriate parenting (which depends on the child's behavior and problems) the genetic element can be minimized but not fully eliminated.

I think it's been proven that the most coddled, spoiled, children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. And on the other hand, I think it's been proven that even severly abused children can grow up to be good citizens or criminals. No rhyme or reason from a purely parenting stance, but when you add genetics to the mix, I think that's where the real bigger personality disorders occur.

Great post. I agree!

I remained a screw up until I decided I no longer wanted to be a screw up (granted there is never ending work involved in staying well) I don't care what mental illness you have or who raised you, if you are not insane you make the choices in your life and should be held accountable.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I guess Debs theory makes it easier to understand the mess KC has made of her life, I am eager to see if things actually play out in court as she described....I do believe it will..

If you go back and read from the 1st of these psych threads you will see that "deb's theory" isn't new. Though "it" is a great one, imo!

 

[BuzzieCat]

She looks OK, imo. She is a pretty thing anyway. She seems to be ok, though not great.. she doesn't seem happy nor sad. I wonder what she thinks of before she goes to sleep at night?

If ya'll recall, I am of the opinion that she feels, but she can just shut it on and off.

This is pure supposition on my part, but I think she can feel but it's just not like most other people feel. She sure seems to have no trouble feeling anger. I think her other feelings are probably kind of shallow, like love or sadness. If something really exciting is not happening, she's just kind of *there*, IMO. I don't think she's capable of feeling horror at Caylee being gone. It's just not all that concerning to her. It can't be or she couldn't have partied for 31 days without giving any inkling to anyone that something was terribly wrong. And she sounded so calm when first questioned by LE.

 

[bessie]

Great post. I agree!

I remained a screw up until I decided I no longer wanted to be a screw up (granted there is never ending work involved in staying well) I don't care what mental illness you have or who raised you, if you are not insane you make the choices in your life and should be held accountable.

Bravo!!! Life is all about choices. Congratulations to you, OLG, for making good ones. Hard work...yes. But well worth it.

 

[kageykaren]

Since studies show the female psychopath is a rare breed (I prefer distancing myself by pretending as I have said that I'm Jane Goodall watching A's in the mist,) have any men on this board come up against a woman of this breed & have lived to tell about it? A mens perspective of KC with her list of personality disorders would be interesting. Male therapist and female to, find these female pts. exsperating to the point of wanting to be euthinised (sp) after 20 min of an intake evaluation. Remember the female psychopath talks and talks and talks until you are so confused .(which is there goal) Can you imagine dating one! We have read womens accounts of possibly jnowing somone with these traits but not from a male perspective. There are so many more studies pertaining to male psychopaths than female. Where is "Steely Dan", blogger?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

This is pure supposition on my part, but I think she can feel but it's just not like most other people feel. She sure seems to have no trouble feeling anger. I think her other feelings are probably kind of shallow, like love or sadness. If something really exciting is not happening, she's just kind of *there*, IMO. I don't think she's capable of feeling horror at Caylee being gone. It's just not all that concerning to her. It can't be or she couldn't have partied for 31 days without giving any inkling to anyone that something was terribly wrong. And she sounded so calm when first questioned by LE.

I could not believe in the original 911 call that Cindy made when Casey was with her and she brought up the fact that Caylee was missing...the operator asked Cindy to put Casey on the phone. You could hear in the background Cindy telling Casey "they want to talk to you" and Casey says "I'll never get to talk to them?".............at least that is what it sounds like she is saying. Casey sounds so calm and composed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UodiwWf7fHw

 

[tiredofthis]

I could not believe in the original 911 call that Cindy made when Casey was with her and she brought up the fact that Caylee was missing...the operator asked Cindy to put Casey on the phone. You could hear in the background Cindy telling Casey "they want to talk to you" and Casey says "I'll never get to talk to them?".............at least that is what it sounds like she is saying. Casey sounds so calm and composed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UodiwWf7fHw

I thought she said "I don't want to talk to them." I could be wrong.

 

[bookworm474]

Was Casey a sociopath before the age of 19?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Since studies show the female psychopath is a rare breed (I prefer distancing myself by pretending as I have said that I'm Jane Goodall watching A's in the mist,) have any men on this board come up against a woman of this breed & have lived to tell about it? A mens perspective of KC with her list of personality disorders would be interesting. Male therapist and female to, find these female pts. exsperating to the point of wanting to be euthinised (sp) after 20 min of an intake evaluation. Remember the female psychopath talks and talks and talks until you are so confused .(which is there goal) Can you imagine dating one! We have read womens accounts of possibly jnowing somone with these traits but not from a male perspective. There are so many more studies pertaining to male psychopaths than female. Where is "Steely Dan", blogger?

Hell, my mother only has a dx of Borderline and she's been difficult enough to live with. I could not imagine loving a female psychopath. Again, though I personally do not think Casey's issues are as simple as a diagnosis of "Psychopath", it would be great if anyone wanted to share a personal story as I find them a great way to learn.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Lavanda, glad you saw my post, must have missed your response, so sorry!

OneLostGirl, my mother admitted to smoking pot while pregnant WITH me, wonder what that did? lol, may be why my spelling is bad and i have absolutely NO attention span, haha!

kiki, i agree with you observations of kc during todays hearing. i watched the entire thing (and still somehow completed all my housecleaning, yipeee) and i agree with you and would like to add i noticed she laughed or smiled 2-3 times when others in court did the same. could this be her sociopathic tendency to mimic other's behaviors?

as a side note, i was inspired to google sociopaths and what causes them...there were many articles about new info emerging about brain anomalies/damage/or underdevelopment in **i believe** the pre-frontal cortex. many older studies from 1944 and 1968 had observed parental environments as the primary cause. I don't know how to link or i would.

reeseva, i agree with you so much - i think environmental concerns and all this bioengineering of produce/dosing of med's to animals in our food supply is going to be found to have a much larger impact than people imagined on development. i have even heard because of the foods we are eating that girls are undergoing puberty and starting their periods at younger and younger ages. interesting since our life expectancy is rising at the same time.

since we are talking about kc and the entire families psychological states, what are your thoughts on LEE?

Yeah, my mom tripped on acid and was on Benzo's for the first 6 months that she was pregnant with me. It really makes me wonder, ya know?

Anyway, Lee? Well, I think (did I say already that this is just what I think? ) Lee is the "good child", momma's boy who is ever faithful, comes running to be there for mom any time there is a problem. I think he keeps his eye on his father and Casey for his mom... and I think both Casey and George know it. When they sneak, they sneak around on Cindy AND Lee. I think Casey resents Lee (because he is the "good child", always being praised) and I think Lee resents Casey (because she is being taken care of by their mother in the family home, is not required to work, and when she creates drama & upsets mom it inturrupts his life to have to go running and take care of mom) but they pretend to adore one another.

Again, these are just MY thoughts on Lee.

 

[Psmith]

Yeah, my mom tripped on acid and was on Benzo's for the first 6 months that she was pregnant with me. It really makes me wonder, ya know?

Anyway, Lee? Well, I think (did I say already that this is just what I think? ) Lee is the "good child", momma's boy who is ever faithful, comes running to be there for mom any time there is a problem. I think he keeps his eye on his father and Casey for his mom... and I think both Casey and George know it. When they sneak, they sneak around on Cindy AND Lee. I think Casey resents Lee (because he is the "good child", always being praised) and I think Lee resents Casey (because she is being taken care of by their mother in the family home, is not required to work, and when she creates drama & upsets mom it inturrupts his life to have to go running and take care of mom) but they pretend to adore one another.

Again, these are just MY thoughts on Lee.

I am sure they both have a love-hate with mom. Not only b/c psych of A house but in general b/c age group. KC, wittle giwlwie, in particular seen as spoiled. Oldest child will resent it, while seeming to go along with the plan of "baby girl," will compensate by becoming parental to a degree but also undermine by "little" betrayals.

2 cents. : )