Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Mysticj]

Yes, I see what she's doing there and how she is trying to control them and they step back so as to maintain contact with her. But I mean just in general something is weird about GA. He is part of this family dynamic also, it wasn't just Cindy's actions that made this whole family this way. He wasn't just a passive creature who just laid there innocently while the rest of the family went off the rails, IMO. Or maybe he has always been this way to try to avoid having to contribute to the family (no steady job, no willingness to do something about Casey before it was too late, falling for the Nigerian scam, etc.). I don't see him contributing anything to the family monetarily or otherwise. He should be doing something. And he has a temper, so he could probably stand up to Cindy if he really wanted to IMO.

By the time Caylee was born, it was too late IMO. Casey was already the way she was and with a baby she had the ultimate key to control her parents. After that they couldn't really do anything with her anymore unless they had called the police whenever she stole money. They needed to nip her in the bud when she was a kid and they didn't, apparently.

One has to look at the history to really get the picture about George.
My look at it: George became a cop. Great!!
Cindy wants him to own his own business like his father...great chance for unlimited money for family. yeah!
George quits Law and starts his oun business. Cindy says yeah!!!
George fails at his own business...money problems begin...they move to florida...George never recovers and Cindy resents him for not making it.
George becomes the butt of Cindy's jokes and she involves both kids in the fun. This was wrong and where this family sours. years later they all hate George but Cindy won't divorce him cause he would get money...For Cindy it is all about money instead of health. George can't say anything because he has no rights anymore and they have told him that over and over again. So Cindy out with the protestors is because it is her house and george has no say... Weird dynamics to say the least but I know them and more.

 

[reeseeva]

How NOT to parent! Or if you want a Casey on your hands, how TO parent .

:clap:

Reminds me of a George Bernard Shaw Quote:

"If you must hold yourself up as an object lesson, hold yourself up as a

warning, and not as an example"

 

[BuzzieCat]

Agree totally w bolded! Way, waaayyyy too late (yathink!) Then not only did Caylee create a power shift between these two women, but when GA "messes up" himself (a few times) CA breaks all the rules and leans on their daughter as a confidante--which put KC in an even greater position of power and put GA in an even more impotent position than before stripping him of whatever respect or authority he may once have had. KC uses this to her total advantage--and says it all when she said, "I should've been stopped a long time ago." A statement, as I've pointed out though, that reveals both a weakness of conscience, and a consciousness of guilt. JMO

I guess I should have added that IMO there was nothing they could do by the time they had that videotaped visit with Casey. Casey is what she is now and won't change. If they push she won't tell them and if they don't push she won't tell them. So I'm not sure what they're supposed to do about it now. They have IMO played a large part in what Casey has become, but they can't stop the train at this point.

I think it's very sad that when Caylee was born she was practically pretty much doomed already. (Her only hope would have been adoption IMO). There was no way to change Casey and I'm not sure if CA or GA had put their feet down it would have changed anything. Casey probably would have just killed Caylee sooner. I'd really like to know if there would have been any way for CA/GA to get custody of Caylee because if they announced their intentions, Casey would preempt them (which could be what actually happened IMO), but if they just took Caylee and kicked Casey out I bet Casey, as custodial parent and not having ever been reported for any of the cr@p that she pulled over the years, could have probably had them arrested and Caylee returned to her. I'm not sure how that works.

 

[LCoastMom]

I was a complete screw up by the time I was 13 years old and there was no reason other than I had a Borderline mother, an ASPD step-father and an undiagnosed mental illness. It happens to lots of us!

Most kids who are screw-ups at 13 probably don't have 1/4 the reasons you present. Being 13 is reason enough!! Having all the other situations you were living with just makes it that much harder to be 13! To be very honest, I can't imagine being 13 and going through everything else you describe and actually surviving it.

2 out of my 3 kids did all the dumbest stuff they ever went through at 13/14 yrs old. One got into the occasional fights at school, the other got arrested for shop lifting. Both turned out fine. The oldest, who was a pretty great 13 yo is the one who ended up having BPD.

It's a pot shoot. We never know, any of us when mental illness is going to strike. I think we're luckier now than 40 years ago, a family member with mental illness was never discussed, so if there was a family history of it, it was well buried. Each generation was on their own.

My dad's younger brother died from a self inflicted gun shot to the head. Story was my uncle was cleaning his gun when it went off. At 5, never being around guns, having no idea what this entailed, I knew something about the story wasn't right. When I was 30, I discovered my uncle had severe mental illness from the time he was a teenager. Knowing what I knew by then it sounded like bi polar disorder. But as a real diagnosis, we'll never know.

 

[Pattymarie]

I posted this another thread but it more belongs here. After watching the latest video release, I believe Casey is deranged. She has been able to mask it, but the killing has unleashed her madness. She will only get worse. I have worked on a psych unit (as a nurse, but by no means an expert) in the past and this video, imo, shows labile psychosis. And the killing may have actually caused a psychotic break. (Also, in my experience, lots of insane people may appear perfectly normal on the surface.)

All along, while being appalled at this case, I could never work up the hate toward her that many on the net have expressed. Something just didn't sit right with me. I don't believe she killed in the heinous manner of viscious killer. I think she has been veering toward insanity for along time now. Maybe the pregnancy unleashed it. I think she is a sad, pathetic figure who has probably blocked out the killing for now.

Insanity defense may be the only way to go, if the defense can grasp this.

 

[kiki the parrot]

George is the sickest one of all ---- he is passive aggressive and very low key so its not obviously apparent he is the KING wingnut . I guarantee you Cindy and KC act the way they do because of him. He plays the fool and the victim -- he is neither. He is quite devious and the biggest liar of the bunch and has been fooling & flying under the radar for a long time.

Strongly disagree. He is passive alright but I feel certain it's the other way around, and suspect rather he became more that way after years of living w a controlling woman (or two). JMO

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

ITA! I too could see the horror as her mind is putting together her daughter, w the reality she has at the least covered up her own child's death. Omg that's alot to take in. JMO

I guess I should have added that IMO there was nothing they could do by the time they had that videotaped visit with Casey. Casey is what she is now and won't change. If they push she won't tell them and if they don't push she won't tell them. So I'm not sure what they're supposed to do about it now. They have IMO played a large part in what Casey has become, but they can't stop the train at this point.

I think it's very sad that when Caylee was born she was practically pretty much doomed already. (Her only hope would have been adoption IMO). There was no way to change Casey and I'm not sure if CA or GA had put their feet down it would have changed anything. Casey probably would have just killed Caylee sooner. I'd really like to know if there would have been any way for CA/GA to get custody of Caylee because if they announced their intentions, Casey would preempt them (which could be what actually happened IMO), but if they just took Caylee and kicked Casey out I bet Casey, as custodial parent and not having ever been reported for any of the cr@p that she pulled over the years, could have probably had them arrested and Caylee returned to her. I'm not sure how that works.

Not certain myself just yet as to whether Caylee was killed intentionally or thru negligence but I certainly agree that once KC became pregnant, and CA protested Caylee being adopted and insisted instead KC keep Caylee, the stage was set for some sort of tragedy. JMO

 

[Pattymarie]

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

Just my observations, but I could actually feel what she was thinking!

I totally agree with everything you have written.

 

[nancy botwin]

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

Just my observations, but I could actually feel what she was thinking!

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

 

[kiki the parrot]

I posted this another thread but it more belongs here. After watching the latest video release, I believe Casey is deranged. She has been able to mask it, but the killing has unleashed her madness. She will only get worse. I have worked on a psych unit (as a nurse, but by no means an expert) in the past and this video, imo, shows labile psychosis. And the killing may have actually caused a psychotic break. (Also, in my experience, lots of insane people may appear perfectly normal on the surface.)

All along, while being appalled at this case, I could never work up the hate toward her that many on the net have expressed. Something just didn't sit right with me. I don't believe she killed in the heinous manner of viscious killer. I think she has been veering toward insanity for along time now. Maybe the pregnancy unleashed it. I think she is a sad, pathetic figure who has probably blocked out the killing for now.

Insanity defense may be the only way to go, if the defense can grasp this.

Nor can I muster the same hatred, altho I am even less an expert than you re psychosis and any other possible explanations for her seeming oblivion or detachment. But I have also sensed that w/e happened, it was due to KC's neglect and poor supervision vs malice and intent. And like you, that it may have resulted in some sort of trauma that sent her into a kind of tailspin causing her compulsive high-risk behavior to escalate etc. Have written a number of posts to this effect ie that if you take an already troubled, unstable and narcissistic young mother already labelled as 'unfit...' and then add the guilt and horror of discovering her child dead due to her own negligence (ie beyond hope on the bottom of the pool eg) it isn't hard to imagine this can push someone over the edge. I'm just not convinced she is insane. At least not by a criminal or legal standard (which would be like Andrea Yates where there is no cover-up). JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

Agree 100%, couldn't have said it better.

 

[icherish]

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

Just my observations, but I could actually feel what she was thinking!

Those were my observations as well. And to think that just a few days later, the monster was back in her house.

 

[icherish]

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

Totally agree.

I think with Cindy, it only penetrates so far. The horror and the pain is too great and the rose colored glasses (and denial) go back on.

 

[reeseeva]

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

:clap::clap: Thanks for the picture.

 

[LCoastMom]

I guess I should have added that IMO there was nothing they could do by the time they had that videotaped visit with Casey. Casey is what she is now and won't change. If they push she won't tell them and if they don't push she won't tell them. So I'm not sure what they're supposed to do about it now. They have IMO played a large part in what Casey has become, but they can't stop the train at this point.

I think it's very sad that when Caylee was born she was practically pretty much doomed already. (Her only hope would have been adoption IMO). There was no way to change Casey and I'm not sure if CA or GA had put their feet down it would have changed anything. Casey probably would have just killed Caylee sooner. I'd really like to know if there would have been any way for CA/GA to get custody of Caylee because if they announced their intentions, Casey would preempt them (which could be what actually happened IMO), but if they just took Caylee and kicked Casey out I bet Casey, as custodial parent and not having ever been reported for any of the cr@p that she pulled over the years, could have probably had them arrested and Caylee returned to her. I'm not sure how that works.

Putting all or most of this off on G&C doesn't explain all the kids who grow up in truly horrific situations and are fine human beings and loving parents. KC has developed some serious issues, but it seems the ones that could be seen as red flags to what could be coming have all been in the last 2 or 3 years, after she was legally an adult, therefore out of G or C's ability to force her into treatment. Caylee was already in the picture, so much of the time to protect Caylee they are seen as enabling KC. When the situation became so bad they knew they had to do something it appears KC was preparing to do something else on her own.

I believe if G&C had just changed the locks one day, obtained the paperwork behind KC's back to at least get temporary custody of Caylee. Then gone in for the kill when KC reacted badly to being locked out, maybe just maybe Caylee would be alive today. But KC had done a really good job hiding her true feelings from everyone. Look at all the early LE interviews, everyone who knew KC said she would never hurt Caylee. Those are all the same people G&C would have been up against trying to get custody of Caylee.

C&FS can't remove a child from it's mother without cause, stealing from relatives is a bad thing but the A's had always fixed it so LE was not involved. Having no job, again not a reason to remove a child. I have worked with families who have done things you and I would see as horrific and cause to lose a child forever, but the courts are set up to keep families together. A couple of parenting classes, a letter showing good progress from a PO, the kid goes back. Our courts are not set up to care for children. Therefore the courts rely on parents, even bad ones.

 

[indicat]

George becomes the butt of Cindy's jokes and she involves both kids in the fun. This was wrong and where this family sours. years later they all hate George but Cindy won't divorce him cause he would get money...For Cindy it is all about money instead of health. George can't say anything because he has no rights anymore and they have told him that over and over again. So Cindy out with the protestors is because it is her house and george has no say... Weird dynamics to say the least but I know them and more.

Make no mistake George knows what he is doing. IMO these personalities seek each other out, he doesnt have to work, he does what he likes around the house, Cindy takes the bulk of the responsibility....he has grown acustomed to this and gets what he needs out of it.

 

[radio]

How NOT to parent! Or if you want a Casey on your hands, how TO parent .

:wave:

Why did I expect to be enlightened about this matter!!!:crazy::crazy:

OLG, thank you once again. LOL!!
:bowdown: :bowdown:

As to the other post. Yes, I was a lucky child. This is true and I know it. Lucky to have been born in family where when or if one fell back, others stepped forward. The Anthony family, it seems, had no one to step forward.

For whatever they are or aren't - thats too bad. imho

 

[LCoastMom]

I posted this another thread but it more belongs here. After watching the latest video release, I believe Casey is deranged. She has been able to mask it, but the killing has unleashed her madness. She will only get worse. I have worked on a psych unit (as a nurse, but by no means an expert) in the past and this video, imo, shows labile psychosis. And the killing may have actually caused a psychotic break. (Also, in my experience, lots of insane people may appear perfectly normal on the surface.)

All along, while being appalled at this case, I could never work up the hate toward her that many on the net have expressed. Something just didn't sit right with me. I don't believe she killed in the heinous manner of viscious killer. I think she has been veering toward insanity for along time now. Maybe the pregnancy unleashed it. I think she is a sad, pathetic figure who has probably blocked out the killing for now.

Insanity defense may be the only way to go, if the defense can grasp this.

I too find KC's behavior disturbing, and while I certainly don't hate her, I hate what she did. Her actions at times and her attitude, cause me to react physically, I want to reach out and smack some sense into her. Even knowing it would change nothing, it's how I feel.

I posted this elsewhere too but it certainly pertains to your post. In the videos of the first visits, I felt she was trying to convince herself, along with C&G that Caylee would be coming home. I wasn't buying what she was saying for a second because she didn't sound like she believed it herself. In this last tape there is a marked difference in the way she says Caylee is safe, Caylee will be home, as if some how over the last 10 or 12 days something changed, she now believes it to be true and even knowing everything I know, I found myself wanting to believe her.

When I see others in a situation I find difficult, I have always felt, any of us at any time could wake up in their shoes. And honestly, the worst situations, none of us really knows what we would do, because our minds just can't take us there. I have felt all along this is were Cindy is stuck. Her mind just can't accept what is happening, so she fights, argues, lies and creates a diversion. I only hope her mind is strong enough to allow her to start climbing out of the hole she has dug to protect herself.

In the mean time, poor Geo, who I think has always been a bit of an under dog in this family, is suddenly in the position of being everyones main source of support. I hope he is getting the help and support he needs at this time. His love for his wife and family is so evident, every time he opens his mouth, or even looks at them. I hope when she is well, CA gives Geo the props he deserves for being there for everyone else in there time of need.

 

[Pattymarie]

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

"A picture paints a thousand words"

 

[BetsyB]

Nor can I muster the same hatred, altho I am even less an expert than you re psychosis and any other possible explanations for her seeming oblivion or detachment. But I have also sensed that w/e happened, it was due to KC's neglect and poor supervision vs malice and intent. And like you, that it may have resulted in some sort of trauma that sent her into a kind of tailspin causing her compulsive high-risk behavior to escalate etc. Have written a number of posts to this effect ie that if you take an already troubled, unstable and narcissistic young mother already labelled as 'unfit...' and then add the guilt and horror of discovering her child dead due to her own negligence (ie beyond hope on the bottom of the pool eg) it isn't hard to imagine this can push someone over the edge. I'm just not convinced she is insane. At least not by a criminal or legal standard (which would be like Andrea Yates where there is no cover-up). JMO

She's not insane. She is far too organized in her thought (and ability to withhold information) to be psychotic.

She may be deranged, but her derangement comes from outrage that she is not being given what she wants to be given--NOW!

 

[radio]

Sometimes people are just sick. Why is it assumed a family like this must have secrets, why is it easier for some people to look for crazy explanations and excuses when there doesn't have to be a reason?! Often people are just messed up for no reason. And if those same people are taught it's OK to lie, steal and cheat- well, they are not being taught the rules we as a society must reasonably follow in order to grow up to be successful in any sense of the word.

It's like the people who when they find out someone has depression, say "You have such a good life, what are you depressed about?!" "What is wrong with you, snap out of it" Like there has to be a reason-It's an ILLNESS the symptoms are not always going to be situational- at times how they feel about themselves and those around them isn't going to be understood or even logical to outsiders- but it is what it is- they don't have to have a horrible secret they are covering up.

I was a complete screw up by the time I was 13 years old and there was no reason other than I had a Borderline mother, an ASPD step-father and an undiagnosed mental illness. It happens to lots of us!

Want one thing clear about my post. I was not referring to the 'secret' which is oft tossed about.