Casey & Family Psychological Profile #8

[Brini]

bbm- I would venture to guess that there are many women reading this forum that are from severly abusive homes, as well as actual rape survivors, and probably a few that have survived both. I find the comparison offensive personally (no critizing the original author, I am sure that was not the intent).

I apologize for the gracelessly composed sentence. Certainly no offense intended.

You know what my point is, because you stated it yourself. Many women reading these forums have been through as bad, or worse, than KC.

 

[impatientredhead]

I apologize for the gracelessly composed sentence. Certainly no offense intended.

You know what my point is, because you stated it yourself. Many women reading these forums have been through as bad, or worse, than KC.

You weren't the original poster of the rape analogy. Just used your post as a jump off point and probably should have gone back to the original since it was really what prompted me to respond.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I am confused and don't know what I think anymore. I had two children and am now a grandmother of six. I treated both our son and daughter equally with love but they also each required different boundaries and rules. They were different people and presented their own individual challenges and blessings.
Some on this forum criticize Cindy and George for being too permissive and sticking their heads in the sand, not recognizing what Casey's problems were (immorality, lies and irresponsibility). Others on this forum blame Cindy for being too controlling, a micro-manager ~ even taking over the mother role for Caylee.
There's next to little that I like about George and Cindy that I've seen since they've come into the public eye. . . but I keep thinking about what SP, Cindy's mother, said to her in an email . . . something about why didn't she let people see the nice person she really was; why was she acting this way to the public.
Cindy is a hard worker. Not dumb. Worked at her marriage. Supported just about the entire family. Kept a neat, clean house. She was working for the American dream. I think she was really putting her effort into it, not just the appearance of the dream.
Could it be that she is not the reason for Casey's faults ~ But the direct opposite? Could trying to deal with a child like Casey have become Cindy's undoing?
I doubt it's 100% in either direction (since I've become so old I can recognize a lot more gray areas). But because of SP's statement, it makes me wonder if we might be giving her a bit of a short shrift here. I don't know, just like none of us here do. But some people really are just bad and impossible to deal with, no matter to whom they're born. I just haven't decided, yet, who is the cause and who is the effect, iykwim. . .
Or just a lethal combination of wrong child with wrong parents?

 

[Brini]

You weren't the original poster of the rape analogy. Just used your post as a jump off point and probably should have gone back to the original since it was really what prompted me to respond.

I see. Thanks! I wouldn't want to get drummed out of your fan club. I just got in!

BTW-- I'm a readhead, too.

 

[impatientredhead]

I am confused and don't know what I think anymore. I had two children and am now a grandmother of six. I treated both our son and daughter equally with love but they also each required different boundaries and rules. They were different people and presented their own individual challenges and blessings.
Some on this forum criticize Cindy and George for being too permissive and sticking their heads in the sand, not recognizing what Casey's problems were (lies and irresponsibility). Others on this forum blame Cindy for being too controlling, a micro-manager ~ even taking over the mother role for Caylee.
There's next to little that I like about George and Cindy that I've seen since they've come into the public eye. . . but I keep thinking about what SP, Cindy's mother, said to her in an email . . . something about why didn't she let people see the nice person she really was; why was she acting this way.
Cindy is a hard worker. Not dumb. Worked at her marriage. Supported just about the entire family. Kept a neat, clean house. She was working for the American dream.
Could it be that she is not the reason for Casey's faults ~ But the direct opposite? Could trying to deal with a child like Casey have become Cindy's undoing?
I doubt it's 100% in either direction (since I've become so old I can recognize a lot more gray areas). But because of SP's statement, it makes me wonder if we might be giving her a bit of a short shrift here. I don't know, just like none of us here do. But some people really are just bad and impossible to deal with, no matter to whom they're born.I just haven't decided, yet, who is the cause and who is the effect, iykwim. . .

What I see with Cindy is clearly a woman with a personality disorder, borderline would be my armchair diagnosis. But that does not make her an inherently bad person. I agree with all of you observations about her. She is a hardworker, dedicated wife, mother and daughter. And definitely not stupid. She does not have good people skills or she has horrible boundary and control issues.

I am sure Casey brings out the worst in her, just like Cindy brings out the worst in Casey. Mother daughter fights in this kind of dynamic are some of the most vicious things I have ever witnessed. The person Shirley wants the world to see is the dedicated family person who is resourceful and held together a family that by all accounts should have imploded long ago. And as Cindy's mother I am sure she is heartbroken over watching her daughter dive in deeper and deeper into the Casey collateral damage.

Cindy's issues and her parenting choices effect Casey's behaviour, Casey's behaviour adds stress to Cindy's already shaky coping skills, Cindy's reaction to her daughter further escalates Casey's beliefs and behaviour. Until it all just spirals out of control. And George is performing fantastically in his role of passive observer, do nothing to interfere, nothing to protect his wife, nothing to help his daughter be functional. Makes you wonder what the payoff for him is doesn't it?

 

[impatientredhead]

I see. Thanks! I wouldn't want to get drummed out of your fan club. I just got in!

BTW-- I'm a readhead, too.

A fellow firey female!
That explains a lot

 

[Brini]

I am confused and don't know what I think anymore. I had two children and am now a grandmother of six. I treated both our son and daughter equally with love but they also each required different boundaries and rules. They were different people and presented their own individual challenges and blessings.
Some on this forum criticize Cindy and George for being too permissive and sticking their heads in the sand, not recognizing what Casey's problems were (immorality, lies and irresponsibility). Others on this forum blame Cindy for being too controlling, a micro-manager ~ even taking over the mother role for Caylee.
There's next to little that I like about George and Cindy that I've seen since they've come into the public eye. . . but I keep thinking about what SP, Cindy's mother, said to her in an email . . . something about why didn't she let people see the nice person she really was; why was she acting this way to the public.
Cindy is a hard worker. Not dumb. Worked at her marriage. Supported just about the entire family. Kept a neat, clean house. She was working for the American dream. I think she was really putting her effort into it, not just the appearance of the dream.
Could it be that she is not the reason for Casey's faults ~ But the direct opposite? Could trying to deal with a child like Casey have become Cindy's undoing?
I doubt it's 100% in either direction (since I've become so old I can recognize a lot more gray areas). But because of SP's statement, it makes me wonder if we might be giving her a bit of a short shrift here. I don't know, just like none of us here do. But some people really are just bad and impossible to deal with, no matter to whom they're born. I just haven't decided, yet, who is the cause and who is the effect, iykwim. . .
Or just a lethal combination of wrong child with wrong parents?

Great post! Great input ot chew on. Thanks!

Being an old psych nurse, I don't see it as all enviornment.

I think some people are born bad. There's a broad range of native enviornments, with a VAST range of effects on the innate personality. And, like you said.. could also be a bad combination.

I think KC is a sociopath-- born without the ability to empathize. I think her upbringing did not mitigate it. Or, maybe it was, as you said, impossible to raise her. And, maybe the personality clash between KC and CA exacerbated KC's natural emptiness.

Or as one well-known psychiatrist said, "It's a crap shoot."

But, in any case.. however she got there, KC is too dangerous to be on the streets, prolly ever again.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I see. Thanks! I wouldn't want to get drummed out of your fan club. I just got in!

BTW-- I'm a readhead, too.

Me three! :blowkiss:

 

[NocturnalLady]

What I see with Cindy is clearly a woman with a personality disorder, borderline would be my armchair diagnosis. But that does not make her an inherently bad person. I agree with all of you observations about her. She is a hardworker, dedicated wife, mother and daughter. And definitely not stupid. She does not have good people skills or she has horrible boundary and control issues.

I am sure Casey brings out the worst in her, just like Cindy brings out the worst in Casey. Mother daughter fights in this kind of dynamic are some of the most vicious things I have ever witnessed. The person Shirley wants the world to see is the dedicated family person who is resourceful and held together a family that by all accounts should have imploded long ago. And as Cindy's mother I am sure she is heartbroken over watching her daughter dive in deeper and deeper into the Casey collateral damage.

Cindy's issues and her parenting choices effect Casey's behaviour, Casey's behaviour adds stress to Cindy's already shaky coping skills, Cindy's reaction to her daughter further escalates Casey's beliefs and behaviour. Until it all just spirals out of control. And George is performing fantastically in his role of passive observer, do nothing to interfere, nothing to protect his wife, nothing to help his daughter be functional. Makes you wonder what the payoff for him is doesn't it?

BBM.

Cindy and Casey are so busy fighting amongst themselves that GA gets a pass most of the time. That's the payoff. Every minute of every day that he doesn't have to be a responsible adult is his reward.

Not that I think he doesn't ever get into it with both of them. I'm sure he does and I'm sure it's ugly. In that kind of family dynamic it's next to impossible not to get sucked into the whirlwind that is going on in the next room.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

A little OT. I wish my hair were red . . . I want to be smart, too. :bow:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

What I see with Cindy is clearly a woman with a personality disorder, borderline would be my armchair diagnosis. But that does not make her an inherently bad person. I agree with all of you observations about her. She is a hardworker, dedicated wife, mother and daughter. And definitely not stupid. She does not have good people skills or she has horrible boundary and control issues.

I am sure Casey brings out the worst in her, just like Cindy brings out the worst in Casey. Mother daughter fights in this kind of dynamic are some of the most vicious things I have ever witnessed. The person Shirley wants the world to see is the dedicated family person who is resourceful and held together a family that by all accounts should have imploded long ago. And as Cindy's mother I am sure she is heartbroken over watching her daughter dive in deeper and deeper into the Casey collateral damage.

Cindy's issues and her parenting choices effect Casey's behaviour, Casey's behaviour adds stress to Cindy's already shaky coping skills, Cindy's reaction to her daughter further escalates Casey's beliefs and behaviour. Until it all just spirals out of control. And George is performing fantastically in his role of passive observer, do nothing to interfere, nothing to protect his wife, nothing to help his daughter be functional. Makes you wonder what the payoff for him is doesn't it?

BBM. Two things.

1. $$ It sounds like his work ethic may be a bit below the average male's.

2. A spine. He may borrow Cindy's on occasion.

 

[Brini]

What I see with Cindy is clearly a woman with a personality disorder, borderline would be my armchair diagnosis. But that does not make her an inherently bad person. I agree with all of you observations about her. She is a hardworker, dedicated wife, mother and daughter. And definitely not stupid. She does not have good people skills or she has horrible boundary and control issues.

I am sure Casey brings out the worst in her, just like Cindy brings out the worst in Casey. Mother daughter fights in this kind of dynamic are some of the most vicious things I have ever witnessed. The person Shirley wants the world to see is the dedicated family person who is resourceful and held together a family that by all accounts should have imploded long ago. And as Cindy's mother I am sure she is heartbroken over watching her daughter dive in deeper and deeper into the Casey collateral damage.

Cindy's issues and her parenting choices effect Casey's behaviour, Casey's behaviour adds stress to Cindy's already shaky coping skills, Cindy's reaction to her daughter further escalates Casey's beliefs and behaviour. Until it all just spirals out of control. And George is performing fantastically in his role of passive observer, do nothing to interfere, nothing to protect his wife, nothing to help his daughter be functional. Makes you wonder what the payoff for him is doesn't it?

BTW-- Agree w/ you re: Cindy as borderline.

 

[Brini]

Me three! :blowkiss:

Uh-oh! Look out, world! :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

A little OT. I wish my hair were red . . . I want to be smart, too. :bow:

Well, you've got one of the two!:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[countzero]

Wow, this part 8 thread is really intriguing to say the least especially after reading and discussing the AR.

All I can say about this is you can pick your friends and you can pick your family. And when one or the other is toxic, ya run in the opposite direction and duck while running.

Like RP, if CA was my sister I would have done and said the same, if not more and then let it be known that I would give moral support to her but I would not cover nor ignore the lies and stealing.

If she was a friend, sorry, but the return calls wouldn't happen from my end.

Life is too short to be around someone who is toxic and CA/GA are very toxic individuals. Both shooting off of each other. CA didn't want to divorce because GA would get 1/2???? Please, if she is staying because she doesn't want to give him half of the house and assets, then she deserves what she got. Shows me even more her priority is obtaining $$$ off Caylee's murder. Karma, will getcha everytime.

GA, sitting on his butt all day playing with who knows what, but a guess wouldn't take much imagination, sucking the life from himself and CA ..... the man needs to grow a set. Pump gas, work at 7-11, or car wash - who cares -- got a job.

Don't need to say anything about KC. She chose to murder Caylee. No amount of psych talk will get her off with me. No middle of the road, no sympathy because I would tell her where she can find that word in the dictionary and then play the worlds smallest violin for her.

Just got my puter back today and am glad I no longer have to read these threads from my itouch.

Great posts everyone.

 

[shgrbkr]

BBM. Two things.

1. $$ It sounds like his work ethic may be a bit below the average male's.

2. A spine. He may borrow Cindy's on occasion.

3. A set....oh yeah, Cindy's got those under lock and key, and SHE has the
key. We can only hope he finds a way to steal them back from her,
unlikely as it seems.

 

[jeepgirlva]

I do get what you're saying about the scars of emotional abuse and agree wholeheartedly. I hope people have come further in their beliefs and knowledge of emotional abuse, but I know some don't equate it to other kinds of trauma. In this case, I don't think any jury is going to give Casey a break because of her childhood, and I don't think they should. I do believe it will be an issue the defense brings up after the guilt phase, as an attempt to keep Casey off Death Row.

Emotional abuse does not cause bruises or wounds and can't be seen but is one of worst ways that a child is abused and nobody knows about whats going on in the home ........ like y'all were talking before it is all done in secret and can be crushing to a childs ego ...In KC's case I do believe she was emotional abused by her mother (the woman figure in her life)....could you even imagine living with CINDY and the abuse caused her to shutdown her emotions to stuff them and not show them in a normal way .....and the only person she ever really loved was herself (narcasistic love) not any of these men she was with they were just tools to make her feel better about herself ...she may have a streak of love and compassion for Lee since they both went thru the same childhood ..

I can see were emotional abuse could cause a person to love themselves only..... for preservation . ...The other emotion she does have is rage she raged against her parents shows them no respect or love and IMO her rage is what caused her to kill Caylee .......she knew what she was doing but did not care Caylee was in the way of her freedom....in her mind she could not leave Caylee with the A's she would be seen as a bad mother by the great CINDY........

It's easy to see why KC grew up to be this horrible person but she made the choice to kill her child and needs to punished for it and her parents they need to see the part they played in this (like thats ever going to happen )......

in the words of Gretchen Wilson" she is a product of her raising"

 

[Searchfortruth]

Emotional abuse does not cause bruises or wounds and can't be seen but is one of worst ways that a child is abused and nobody knows about whats going on in the home ........ like y'all were talking before it is all done in secret and can be crushing to a childs ego ...In KC's case I do believe she was emotional abused by her mother (the woman figure in her life)....could you even imagine living with CINDY and the abuse caused her to shutdown her emotions to stuff them and not show them in a normal way .....and the only person she ever really loved was herself (narcasistic love) not any of these men she was with they were just tools to make her feel better about herself ...she may have a streak of love and compassion for Lee since they both went thru the same childhood ..

I can see were emotional abuse could cause a person to love themselves only..... for preservation . ...The other emotion she does have is rage she raged against her parents shows them no respect or love and IMO her rage is what caused her to kill Caylee .......she knew what she was doing but did not care Caylee was in the way of her freedom....in her mind she could not leave Caylee with the A's she would be seen as a bad mother by the great CINDY........

It's easy to see why KC grew up to be this horrible person but she made the choice to kill her child and needs to punished for it and her parents they need to see the part they played in this (like thats ever going to happen )......

in the words of Gretchen Wilson" she is a product of her raising"

I have to agree Jeep Girl. I would not have wanted a mother like Cindy. Now my mother was no prize but, I was very blessed to have wonderful Grandparents that raised me.

I think about the kinds of things Cindy said to Casey's boyfriend, Jesse, about her and compare it to the way she present's Casey to the world..."mother of the year". VERY confusing and conflicting messages that were probably there for most of Casey's life.

As adults though, we all have to take what we have been given and take responsibility for our actions. Casey didn't seem to want to do this.

 

[snow_walker]

Yes, it is a complex inter-twining of crazyness.. I believe it started with GA..
he seems to have decided early on to act like an emotional cripple.. refusing to accept any responsiblity for his family, not holding down a decent job to keep up his end of the bills, possibly having affairs or gambling or messing about with shady business dealings..in general acting like a teenager instead of like a grown, married man.

CA responding, not by booting him out the door and forcing him to stand on his own 2 feet, but by taking over the entire load of financial responsibility...while she was at it, she began taking over all responsibility for everyone else's behavior, thoughts and feelings.. smothering KC in a literal sense (KC got even with her for that, years later, by physically smothering little Caylee).. I imagine LA went through the same sort of treatment but made his escape from the family zoo, it seems he is the least damaged of the bunch.

Meanwhile though KC takes on dads irresponsible habits.. "it worked for dad, it will work for me!! I won't grow up and become an adult and hold a job and look after my daughter..just like dad didn't grow up and get a real job and look after HIS daughter.. I will just let mom carry the load, and pretend to work, do as little as possible, and get by on shady dealings or whatever I can do without actually working or getting out on my own"
Mom responded by working harder.. and by trying to keep these free loaders in line by taking over their right to an independant existence.. their right to their own thoughts feelings and concerns were lost when they refused to do the adult thing of supporting themselves.. in effect CA said "Okay, I will support you, and I will keep a roof over our heads and food on the table, but in exchange, you are going to give up your right to an independant, self respecting existence apart from me!"

Any one of the three could have broken up the whole game, by refusing to play their role any longer.. none of them did, they kept on with this foolishness until finally KC acted out the final scene in the whole drama..in a horrible act of vengence on an innocent baby..for some reason Caylee was the scapegoat who payed for CA's sins. (how terribly sad that is!)

The family dynamics have changed now, KC finally moved out and now has a "job" and a 'place of her own'.. sitting in jail being a celebrity.. and she won't play the family crazy game anymore.. be interesting to watch the family dynamics change.. CA seems to have lost all control of KC.. and I bet it is much harder to control GA.

LA seems to have finally quit trying to be a part of the whole show, be interesting to see how CA and GA sort things out beween them.. I imagine the coming year will see some real changes.

 

[Brini]

Emotional abuse does not cause bruises or wounds and can't be seen but is one of worst ways that a child is abused and nobody knows about whats going on in the home ........ like y'all were talking before it is all done in secret and can be crushing to a childs ego ...In KC's case I do believe she was emotional abused by her mother (the woman figure in her life)....could you even imagine living with CINDY and the abuse caused her to shutdown her emotions to stuff them and not show them in a normal way .....and the only person she ever really loved was herself (narcasistic love) not any of these men she was with they were just tools to make her feel better about herself ...she may have a streak of love and compassion for Lee since they both went thru the same childhood ..

I can see were emotional abuse could cause a person to love themselves only..... for preservation . ...The other emotion she does have is rage she raged against her parents shows them no respect or love and IMO her rage is what caused her to kill Caylee .......she knew what she was doing but did not care Caylee was in the way of her freedom....in her mind she could not leave Caylee with the A's she would be seen as a bad mother by the great CINDY........

It's easy to see why KC grew up to be this horrible person but she made the choice to kill her child and needs to punished for it and her parents they need to see the part they played in this (like thats ever going to happen )......

in the words of Gretchen Wilson" she is a product of her raising"

I DID have Cindy for a Mom. Same treatment.

Wonder why I haven't killed anyone?

Leaving the house, getting a job, and getting counseling works WONDERS.