Casey & Family Psychological Profile #8

[The World According]

There are supposedly five of them living at Hopespring now, right? LA, DM,SM, CA & GA. Interesting dynamics there, I wonder how the M's and the A's are holding up living in the same house. 4 very strong personalities there. My guess is LA isn't around much.

I read that Lee hasn't lived there in quite some time. I think he tried to tell the truth in his depo. and to LE. I don't know how much he is like Casey. I am holding out hope he will testify truthfully at the trial. When he took a leave of absence and started his own investigation from the time he woke up until the time he collapsed at night, at that point at least, I think he was searching , searching for the truth and was more realistic than mom and pop. He said he was trying to find out if sis was "really searching for Caylee". He believed there may have been an accident and she did not know how to admit to it. He grilled her his first visit, and she started shutting him down. I do not believe he helped her hide the body. I do think he came to understand the inevitable that Casey was responsible and that he tried to hold mom and pop together and eventually realized he was not able to do even that. The only good thing for him is his new baby and steering toward that and away from the bottomless pit on Hopespring Drive. I know I am going to get all the Polyanna jokes for holding out hope for Lee, but I do, hope that is. It is interesting in families that one person can succeed and the other child go astray, although they had the same parents, same rules, same examples, it is as if they are hard wired differently, the nature vs. nurture thing. He is the one, out of all of them, I pray and hope for.

 

[essies]

I agree that it demonstrates a knowledge of Casey's guilt. When I was a child I was spanked for telling lies and I can guarantee you that even the word "mistruths" would have gotten me extra! Just the word represents a pshyc. problem. I think if you had to point to one clue of Cindy's enabling it would be that word.

ITA It's just a nicer term for just what it is - It's a LIE! Just like the term "little white lie" makes it seems like a harmless lie-it's a lie also. Lying is not a crime if you tell someone what they made for dinner was good when you can barely swallow it. Lying is a crime if you tell LE you heard your "missing" daughter on the phone talking about "books and shoes" when you know she's laying like trash in a dumping gound!:furious:

 

[countzero]

But, (to add briefly to my earlier post) it's more than not being able to read people. It seems to me there's an inability to feel shame. The shame that comes when you are being dishonest with someone is usually something kids are taught to feel at a young age.

Well when a child doesn't receive a parental queue that the child has done something wrong, the child hasn't a clue they have done wrong.

The child learns to manipulate the situation to their advantage where they don't have to accept or be responsibility for their actions - positive or negative.

Apparently this was the norm in the A compound early on.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

But, (to add briefly to my earlier post) it's more than not being able to read people. It seems to me there's an inability to feel shame. The shame that comes when you are being dishonest with someone is usually something kids are taught to feel at a young age.

BBM You have definitely hit on something there. ITA.

 

[The World According]

I agree with you re Shirley, but I have a harder time with Rick. It's one thing to have a strong opinion about the way your sister is mishandling that whole situation, and to write her a series of emails in an attempt to open her eyes to what everybody else is seeing, but it's quite another to share those emails publicly and to go on Greta and malign her and her coping methods. I just think there should be more solidarity in a family, more loyalty, than that. And I'm saying that while appreciating his insight into this case, the bird's eye view into their family. I view that as an extreme betrayal of Cindy, and if I were her I could never forgive him.

What I found interesting about Rick's account was that he nor Cindy nor mom and pop had any relationship or contact with the brother , the recluse and very little more than that with the third brother. Cindy didn't even call her brother on his birthday. I have friends who haven't missed my birthday in twenty years and if one of my siblings didn't call me the very next morning after "missing" my birthday, I'd be calling to check on them. That kind of distance, if it is detachment, not mental frailty is very telling about a family and gives me more questions than answers. We have to be very, very mindful to remember that God gives us Free Will and although it interesting to try to connect the dots, I do not want to imply that I am reflecting Casey's behavior/mental problems on Shirley and Grampa. Theirs was the greatest generation, unimaginable selflessness during the time of of the depression, he likely served in WWII, and unless and until proven otherwise, I take them for salt of the earth, hardworking Americans who likely grew up with very modest means and education and did the very best they could to raise their children. If there was any mental illness or alcoholism they did not have the readily available treatment and counseling and drugs we do today, so everything must be viewed relative to their time. My father was an alcoholic and died of a heart attach when I was only two years old, my mother told me later that it was a relief when he died because he had been so abusive to her for years. One of my siblings struggles with alcoholism today and the rest of us avoid it like the plague, for fear that we are predisposed to addiction and want a better life. So even if there were problems in Cindy's family growing up, she has two clear choices......... repeat the pattern or decide to DO BETTER! I was told once, forget about blaming your dad for everything, thankfully you wont stand at Heaven's gate and answer for him, but YOU WILL stand at Heaven's gate and answer for YOU! It changed my life. I never told my friend how very much, but it CHANGED MY LIFE! If only Casey could have stayed with Jesse and had Reverand and Mrs. Grund for in laws, then she could have had someone good to jerk her up by the shirt collar when she needed direction, like I needed (many, many , MANY a time! LOL!)

 

[Brini]

MY BOLD

That's not insanity. That's evil. There's a difference. Legally, there's a huge difference.

POTD!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Brini]

BBM You have definitely hit on something there. ITA.

Well sociopaths don't feel shame.

KC hasn't felt shame a day in her life. Not when she's caught red-handed stealing. Not when LE confronts her lying.. or leading them to a mythical "office." Not when she's arrested for murdering her baby. Not when she's doing a Hot Body contest, instead of "looking for" said baby. Not when she's on the Net drunk and talking on the Great White Phone. Not when she's on the Net, sitting in a parking structure peeing.

 

[The World According]

I agree with you re Shirley, but I have a harder time with Rick. It's one thing to have a strong opinion about the way your sister is mishandling that whole situation, and to write her a series of emails in an attempt to open her eyes to what everybody else is seeing, but it's quite another to share those emails publicly and to go on Greta and malign her and her coping methods. I just think there should be more solidarity in a family, more loyalty, than that. And I'm saying that while appreciating his insight into this case, the bird's eye view into their family. I view that as an extreme betrayal of Cindy, and if I were her I could never forgive him.

I don't see him as disloyal to Cindy, I see him as trying to speak up for the tiny, innocent, helpless baby who was his flesh and blood too, don't forget. He saw Cindy and George as standing in the way of justice for this baby, so he was splashing some cold water on their faces. I don't agree with the "solidarity in a family" when one family member murdered another. How do you chose between loyalty to Casey and loyalty to the murdered niece? To me, it isn't even a close call. I'd stand up for Caylee. All day long. I respect your opinion, as always, we can just agree to disagree. The betrayals here, I believe are how they betrayed Caylee! Contrast Cindy's blase "I am letting the detectives do their job", when asked on the morning show if she is looking for the "real killer" to someone like Beth Holloway living in Aruba, going door to door, day in day out, in a hundred degree heat, for months and months, begging for the locals to help her find the truth of who killed her daughter. I judge people by what they DO! In my opinion, the Anthonys have done nothing to get justice for Caylee and they further dishonor her by making a foundation based on lies. The more I think of it, I not only do not blame him, I admire him for stepping up for this baby.

 

[kageykaren]

You have hit on it, the seriousness of the ongoing problems that were risked by the lie, so you get a glimpse Casey being Cindy Jr. in stripper boots. People always seem genuinely puzzled at how Casey could tell such easily disprovable lies, now we see this behavior had been all she knew growing up. I think the lies and living as if you believe them did not begin with Casey's pregnancy. My favorite example of how Cindy seemed to buy into her own imagined family view was when she explained in the FBI or LE taped interview how outraged and offended she was when she found Jesse lying (fully clothed) watching TV with Casey when they were only engaged but not legally married yet. My Gram would say that is like closing the hen house door after they have all run out. This kid was going to marry her daughter, knowing there is no way in the world the child was his. Where was her outrage and offense to locate the bio dad and hold him accountable, morally and financially for this child? Instead she was angry with Jesse for lying down with her daughter "in her house", as if her house was honorable and beyond reproach as if she were saying, is nothing sacred. The righteous indignation was so misplaced, even a young boy like Jesse was keenly aware of the irony. He wasn't the one who harmed her daughter, he was the hero that was going to step up for her. This had no value to Cindy, and she emasculated George telling him she (Cindy) would handle it, "He wasn't the man of the house anymore". If this is what was modeled for Casey that you never have a standard that you hold yourself to and respect in others, it explains to me (SOMEWHAT) Casey's promiscuity and how she could betray friends and go through guys like water and find away to lie her way through life. George didn't help either, hiding and lying and hiding and lying that he had gambled and squandered and got caught up in financial schemes and lost their entire life savings and had their home foreclosed on before Cindy had any idea what hit her. That is just the one little gem he admitted to police. One can only imagine what he did day to day to lie about other matters that he deemed lesser. Lying to your spouse, being irresponsible and even living in a dream world these things may very well have contributed to the bad broken moral compass Casey has. Don't be shocked at all if we hear ALL ABOUT IT at the sentencing phase. There are people living in the inner cities with much worse parents than this, fathers who are in prison, mothers who are dope addicts and still, despite everything, they are able to decide to do better by their children. While her problems may be an interesting study, they will be studied while she is indeed in jail. I think their guilt for all that they did keeps them up at night knowing they created the Casey they have in front of them. It is a cautionary tale for parents about children learning what they live.

This one of the best summarys of CA and KC classic passive arregressive moments. It would be overwhelming to document all of these moments between these family members. My stomach feels curdled when I think about the exchange between these two women while KC was incarcerated. It went something like CA telling KC how much they were alike pertaining to KC being there for her friends and KC being the one they would confide in. Mom and daughter looked like they were in agreement with each other and so proud of this aspect of their personalities. Shoot I thought w/s members were going to see KC dressed up in a nurses outfit instead of her, "Queen of Hearts," outfit. Oh my... it's too early to think about these two. I'm sure NG is going to put clips together for this Fridays show that are going to lay us out.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Well sociopaths don't feel shame.

KC hasn't felt shame a day in her life. Not when she's caught red-handed stealing. Not when LE confronts her lying.. or leading them to a mythical "office." Not when she's arrested for murdering her baby. Not when she's doing a Hot Body contest, instead of "looking for" said baby. Not when she's on the Net drunk and talking on the Great White Phone. Not when she's on the Net, sitting in a parking structure peeing.

When I think about her walking the hallways w/ LE at Universal........It takes a cool customer to pull that off. I don't have the expertise you do, Brini, to accurately describe this sort of behavior, but IMO, this is one of the most detached, cold killers we have seen in a long while.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I don't see him as disloyal to Cindy, I see him as trying to speak up for the tiny, innocent, helpless baby who was his flesh and blood too, don't forget. He saw Cindy and George as standing in the way of justice for this baby, so he was splashing some cold water on their faces. I don't agree with the "solidarity in a family" when one family member murdered another. How do you chose between loyalty to Casey and loyalty to the murdered niece? To me, it isn't even a close call. I'd stand up for Caylee. All day long. I respect your opinion, as always, we can just agree to disagree. The betrayals here, I believe are how they betrayed Caylee! Contrast Cindy's blase "I am letting the detectives do their job", when asked on the morning show if she is looking for the "real killer" to someone like Beth Holloway living in Aruba, going door to door, day in day out, in a hundred degree heat, for months and months, begging for the locals to help her find the truth of who killed her daughter. I judge people by what they DO! In my opinion, the Anthonys have done nothing to get justice for Caylee and they further dishonor her by making a foundation based on lies. The more I think of it, I not only do not blame him, I admire him for stepping up for this baby.

:clap: Another contender for POTD!

I agree. This was the tipping point for RP, IMO. Enough is enough. He is angry and disgusted, and rightly so.

 

[Sdavidson11]

But, (to add briefly to my earlier post) it's more than not being able to read people. It seems to me there's an inability to feel shame. The shame that comes when you are being dishonest with someone is usually something kids are taught to feel at a young age.

Your statement just reminded me of my friends daughter who has been diagnosed with autism and also diagnosed with sociopathic tendencies. She has been under a doctors care since she was 4 and is now 24. Her main focus is texting and the computer to communicate. To look at her she is beautiful and appears "normal" until you have an in depth conversation with her. When she doesn't get her way she throws temper tantrums like the face of Casey on the jail house video while hitting her hands together. This can be triggered by something as simple as her phone not working or her mom not agreeing with what she said. She is able to keep up with current events but also doesn't have a problem with doing inappropriate things in front of people weather she knows them or not. Like Casey , her illness makes her hyper sexual and while a teenager ran up $5,000 worth of sex line phone calls. When she is caught in a lie or having inappropriate behavior, she can't understand what the big deal is. She can not grasp the thought of consequence, shame, or any other feeling. Truly, the only thing she cares about is instant gratification and her comfort. No compassion for others, even her own family. The reason I bring this up is that I feel something noteworthy is missing from the A's. A girl like Casey doesn't just happen, there has to be an underlying condition or pattern of behavior that we haven't been able to put our finger on just yet. I don't believe for one minute of CA's description of a typical family life. I am not trying to make excuses for the murderer of Caylee but trying to understand her and her families behavior and the lack of family consequence for the death of Caylee. Thank you for everyones insightful input. I love reading here!

 

[essies]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY-zmJ1VCQI"]YouTube - Jimmy Durante 'Did You Ever Have the Feeling '[/ame]
This my friends could be KC's mind set-should have been her theme song!:crazy:

 

[countzero]

That was great. Thanks, a 26 second worth of vocalizing KC's mindset.

 

[kageykaren]

Many of us in the beginning of the case came to the conclusion that CA was trying immulate, & mimick the feelings a mother or grandmother might portray when confronted with a child missing. Her voice and mannerisms didn't seem natural or authentic for such devastating news. I feel the behavior displayed by cA was one of panic. The panic it seems now was from loosing her control of her family. In a New York minute CA had to find a new reference of being to mimick and it showed. Take alook again at the Greta VS interview where she referenced her own physical condition throughout the entire interview instead of panic that her grandaughter just might be in a worse physical conditon by an abductor. Instead cA created a new thought pattern that Caylee was to special to be harmed leaving CA to gain more sympathy for her plight than the position Caylee might be in.

 

[The World According]

Isn't that the truth. They have no respect whatsoever towards one another, cussing, telling one another to shutup. No wonder they don't respect the public and LE, the way they treat their very own family.

"Meet his mama", my Gram used to tell me, "You can tell all you need to know by how a man treats his mother". I was dating this guy who I thought was so wonderful, but it stopped me cold when his mother phoned him once needing a favor and he was so rude to her. Girlfriends come and go, but your Mom that gave birth to you, sacrificed for you, raised you, stayed up with you while you were sick, the most important person in the whole world to you....if you aren't good to her, or your father for that matter, how could I trust you to take care of me, I thought. I bailed. Gram would have been proud. All these years later, I still hear Gram in my head, only I watch for how men treat their wives. If they lie to them on the phone and put them off, etc and flirt with me across the conference table, wedding ring showing, I just sum them up relatively quickly, wealthy and good looking, charming as they may be, I still see through them, and I don't like, trust or respect them. Relaying the gas can incident, I laughed when George spelled out the bad word "Beginning with f" he said. He wanted the officers to think those words were foreign and offensive to him. How silly to profess that when he let his daughter get by with it. A girl doesn't just one day start using the f word around her dad after having been respectful all her upbringing. Obviously she had gotten by with that before. You teach people how to treat you, and clearly he had taught her...that would fly in their home. Most of us on here were raised to a different standard, so we cannot even imagine. I remember the FBI agent shared with George a little bit about his take on Cindy and her far from reality take on Casey according to the long list of questions she answered. Scott told George that what was glaringly obvious to him was Cindy's need to be perceived as having been a good mother. It seemed to me that George was desperately needing to be perceived as one of the good guys and being straight with them. So even he was holding up a pretense of what was tolerated in his home, when behind closed doors it seems there were no boundaries. Even now I think that is what drives them with the foundation, the need to be perceived a certain way. Before Lee knew they were being recorded, Lee was the only one to tell Casey, I am not having it! You are full of it and it is not going to work with me, little miss. This crap you have been putting mom through, I am not going down that road with you. I know you are in Orlando. That is a lie. (paraphrasing) perhaps this is why he thought he, if anyone, could get the truth from her, because he was, unlike mom and pop, going to hold her feet to the fire. I bet she wouldn't have talked to Lee the way she talked to dad. He commanded more respect from her. Thus her request for the detective who was "nice and listened" Happy, and her disdain for Yuri who took the "Everything you have told me is a lie, You know where your daughter is and you need to stop the lies, now" approach. When someone has her number she retreats, like all bullies on the school yard.

 

[thelmadawg]

Profile of the Sociopath: Post 339 (The world according . . .)

If you look at this list, several of the characteristics also apply to CA -- to one degree or another. Interesting!

 

[kageykaren]

For a bit W/S members could call the play by play moments of, "Whose court the ball is in" After the last court date concerning autopsy ruling I'm thinlkng ball is in the "Peoples Court "of opinion and prosecution??? If a pattern remains we should be hearing from the A camp. I feel with all the new news on the airwaves CA may be feeling a bit indignant that her voice has been overshadowed. As much as I would like to assume the A's are purposely staying less vocal in order to heal I bet they are frustrated to be put on the back burner of sensational news stories.

 

[jeepgirlva]

Many of us in the beginning of the case came to the conclusion that CA was trying immulate, & mimick the feelings a mother or grandmother might portray when confronted with a child missing. Her voice and mannerisms didn't seem natural or authentic for such devastating news. I feel the behavior displayed by cA was one of panic. The panic it seems now was from loosing her control of her family. In a New York minute CA had to find a new reference of being to mimick and it showed. Take alook again at the Greta VS interview where she referenced her own physical condition throughout the entire interview instead of panic that her grandaughter just might be in a worse physical conditon by an abductor. Instead cA created a new thought pattern that Caylee was to special to be harmed leaving CA to gain more sympathy for her plight than the position Caylee might be in.

I know the interview your talking about I just wanted to stuff a sock in her mouth she goes on and on and on about herself......she truly is a piece of work...

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I know the interview your talking about I just wanted to stuff a sock in her mouth she goes on and on and on about herself......she truly is a piece of work...

I watched that again the other day and was struck by how she took control of the interview from the start and no useful info was really given about Caylee. The interview was all about her, her lack of sleep, *I'm gonna collapse* ( and other such theatrics )......blah, blah, b l a h.