Casey Returned to the Disposal Site - Theories

[Intermezzo]

And recall that KC dumped the car on Friday the 27th just before noon, and it was towed Monday AM the 30th, Cindy's first day of vacation. Thus, Cindy had exactly one chance to "notice" the car - her commute home that Friday afternoon. We will forgive her missing it that one time. :blowkiss:

Yes.

 

[BondJamesBond]

HI Belle
BBM
Respectfully disagree. I do not believe Cindy saw their white pontiac parked at the Amscot.
Cindy would have been trying real hard to look at the scenery instead of having her eyes on the road.

I have driven and have been stopped at the red light at the intersection of Colonial and Goldenrod (a large and busy intersection) where Amscot is, I do not believe Cindy would have been able to clearly make out that a white car parked on the opposite corner at the furthest spot north on that property would be theirs. And forget about reading the license plate..no way.

Amscot is on Goldenrod facing west, Cindy would have been driving Eastbound on Colonial, the car was parked next to a dumpter along a fence at the northern part of that property while Cindy who was driving eastbound would have been on the opposite southwest corner..from the property that Amscott shares with other businesses.
Also, Colonial at that time was under construction.
I have tried to insert a map of that intersection but I haven't been able to..even though I have done it in the past..:waitasec: :crazy:
Anywho...that is my :twocents: I may be wrong. :blushing:

*snipped*

iirc i thought cindy said at some point that if the car was at amscot she wouldve seen it because she drives past that amscot everyday or something to that effect. not that i couldnt be wrong though, it happens alot. lol!

Belle, it doesn't get any better than Intermezzo's first-hand account, but, under the heading of "Because-we-can", here's what the intersection would've looked like to Cindy as she made her right-turn onto Goldenrod from Colonial on a Friday afternoon on her way home before starting vacation. Note there may have been some reworking of the intersection, and the traffic may not have been exactly the same, but, you get the idea...the Pontiac would've been virtually impossible for Cindy to see on the one chance she had to see it, IMHO.

...an arial view.

Hope that helps put this one to bed.

 

[JWG]

Hope that helps put this one to bed.

Yep. :sleep:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Snipped from Hot Dog's post FYI...

Wk ending Rainfall amount

6/8/2008 0.4
6/15/2008 1.71
6/22/2008 1.42
6/29/2008 2.02
7/6/2008 0.94

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond, I tried, but I'll be darned if I can find anything. Maybe I'm just not thinking of the right keywords.

I have this link from my notes from way back when: page 1 is Lee's list of Casey's receipts http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/la092308.pdf $31.93 for getting your nails done and the tip sounds right to me.

To my knowledge, whatever item(s) Casey charged from J.C. Penney @ Fashion Square on June 30 for $73.40 has never been released.

Closest I could find, BeanE, was this post on an old NG thread. Hardly proof. I do sorta recall the post BJB is referring to, but darned if I can find it. :banghead:

Thanks for tryin' everyone. Really appreciate your taking the time to do the legwork. Perhaps, "The lunatic is in my head" :bang:

 

[Just Jayla]

:twocents: RE: post-midnight calls. Capt Obvious here...(Insert theme music)

2 observations, neither of them ground-breaking:


Cindy was on vacation this week & the "story" for this period was Casey in J-ville w/ JH, right? So:

1) The timing of these post-midnight calls is INconsistent w/ I-wanna-talk-to-Caylee motive.

2) If Casey's story was that she was, "working an event", the timing of these calls might fit w/ Cindy abiding by a Casey plea of, "I'm busy! Mom. Let's talk after I get off work" But, IIRC, Casey wasnKt claiming that she was working.

Any clues in the J-ville alibi that would explain this timing on 2 nights?

It seems to me that a mother (CA) would be the one making these types of calls, even just to check up on KC-But has the possibility that George was making these calls been ruled out?
Does KC contact GA's cell the next day to return these calls? GA was getting home late at night, IIRC that he was employed during this time.
If it were just one night, say the night of the 1st into 2nd, I might wonder if GA found something (Caylee, evidence of a crime) at the house that prompted him to call-But as JWG outlined, these mini-flurries were made on more than one occasion, leading me to lean more toward it being CA.

 

[Just Jayla]

I find it hard to imagine KC didn't return to the disposal site. It seems a compelling act that murderers do for probably a number of reasons. I have always thought loosely in my mind that KC's statement that she didn't know where Caylee was "was" based partly in truth. I feel it is possible she did return to the site and was unable to locate Caylee after the initial dump. I think this discovery gave her comfort and confidence that she would not be held responsible for Caylee's death. She used the tiny truth that she didn't know "where" Caylee was (exactly.....) and that became her entire reality. What drives any murderer to revisit? Most obvious to me is to ensure you have not been detected somehow....to be the fly on the wall....to make sure you are still in control of the situation...??? JMO....

Seems right on to me-When I used to be out too late as a teenager, I would circle the block around our house to see if the lights were on before I would actually pull in. It would not have made a difference, I was either busted or I wasn't, but I wanted control and advanced notice of my troubles!

The trouble KC made was a thousand times beyond staying out past curfew-She was definately worried. You would think she would know not to make phone calls, but she made enough calls for us to be able to follow her around town on almost a minute to minute basis! The call to Ryan had to be triggered by her state of mind, he was a "safe," comfort contact.

Did she get out of the truck? Hard to tell, I would say if a particular object can be singled out that puts her there later, we got a connection to the actual site.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Found this on some of my old notes. I am so far behind in reading doc dumps that there may be new information that I don't have listed in here so read with an eye for mistakes. Something in here may help.

Great thread.



6/30
12:54 to 12:56 am - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
9:17 am - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
4:51 pm - cell towers ping near old Cheney Highway until . . .
4:56 pm - cell towers ping near AL's apt until . . .
5:28 pm - cell towers ping near RM/AH's apt until . . .
7:21 pm - cell towers ping near Fusion and multiple locations near there until very early in the morning 7/1/2008
7/1
11:20 pm near Union Park Drive (3.7 mi from Fusion). There's a gap in the calls between 11:20 pm and 1:10 am when the phone pings near the Spur Road tower (3.8 mi from Fusion), then back to the Union Park Dr tower (3.7 mi from Fusion). By 2:25 the tower by Alafaya Trail in Bithlo pings, which is 5.7 miles from Fusion. Yet, by 2:26 (about a minute later) the tower near Newburg St in Wedgefield pings, which is 13 miles from Fusion.

AF

Then there's about a 2 hour gap and at 4:24, the tower by Alafaya Trail S in Tala Apopka pings, which is 17.5 mi from Fusion. Then about a two and a half hour gap with no cellular activity followed by cellular activity for which no towers are listed - from 6:56 am to 7:51 am.

By 7:51 am the cell pings at the Windmill Ridge Loop tower, which is 3.5 miles from Fusion, then back to Alafaya. There is about an hour and a half gap but the next ping is at the same place at 9:34 am. At 9:48 the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings again, then 42 seconds later, the tower at Tanner Rd S pings, which is 4.2 mi from Fusion. Two seconds later, the Windmill Ridge Loop tower pings. By 9:59 am, the pings again hit the Spur Road tower.

This tower is not only near Fusion, it's 2.1 mi from JG's.

By 10:15 am, KC's phone is pinging a tower on Purlieu Place near AL's apt while she is calling JG. It then pings a few more towers by AL's, then pings from Spur Rd from 10:39 to 11:05 am. Again, this tower is 2.1 miles from JG.

The pings then hit towers at Union Park Dr, Palmetto Ave N and by 11:10, back to Spur Rd where the pings continue until 12:56 pm. At 1:13, the cell pings the tower on Palmetto again, near AL's apt until 2:40 pm, when the pings hit the tower on Robinson St E, 0.4 mi from RM/AH's apt.

Pings continue at that location until 5:00 pm when towers on Old Cheney Highway, Chickasaw, and Union Park receive pings. May indicate traveling around, and by 5:28 pings are picked up at Lake Underhill Road, 1.5 mi from Fusion. By 5:34 the pings hit a tower on Econlockhatchee Trl S, Goldenrod, and Renwick, all near the Anthony family home.

There is an hour gap between the ping at Econlockhatchee Trail and Goldenrod (5:35 to 6:33 pm), but pings continue near the Anthony home until 8:57 pm, when cell towers near Fusion (Lake Underhill Rd) begin pinging and continue at that location until 11:50 pm.

From 11:50 pm until 11:58 pm, cell towers at Econlockhatchee, Chickasaw, and Curry Ford ping (indicating travel IMO). At 11:58 pm, the towers near RM/AH's apt are pinged and continue pinging past midnight into the next day.

AH KC 07/01 11:02 AM So you’re working all day today.. correct?

KC AH Not this morning. I couldn’t pick up. I'm in at 5.

AH KC 07/01 11:04 AM Ah, I work 'til 5. Are you closing?

KC AH Hopefully.

AH KC 07/01 11:06 AM Well if not maybe we can grab a drink.

KC AH We’ll see. It’s Ricardo’s last night in town so I should probably chill w him. But we will see where the night goes. Oh, bbq at Will’s for the 4th. Then to Eola for fireworks.

AH KC 07/01 11:10 AM Done deal. I’d like to see Ric before he leaves.

AH KC 07/01 1:19 PM Sorry. Was talking to my crazy mother.

KC AH I should be out of here by 11. Thank god I managed to close. He is really watching out for me.

AH KC 07/01 10:19 PM Good! Call me when you leave.

KC AH I should be out of here by 11. Thank god I managed to close. He is really watching out for me.

AH KC 07/01 11:46 PM On my way.

KC AH Sweet.

July 1st Amy said Casey had her nails done.
Page 1046 Lines 13-17 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

Casey calls Jesse and asks to shower at his place. She seems normal and not in need of a shower (interview with J.G. page 19, line 19-page 20 line 11)

July 1:

JC Penny Fashion Square @ 4:17 pm cc$31.93
July 1 Casey stayed at Ricardo M.’s was sleeping on the couch and that was the first night she had been there without Caylee. He left about 10:35AM [232 N Glenwood Ave Orlando, FL 32803]
Page 1292 Lines 6-12 Page 1298 Lines 22-24 Page 1299 Lines 4-5 Ricardo M. Interview with LE on 7/25/2008

Jeff H is at Waterford ale house and runs into Casey with Sean D and a group of friends. She is drinking beer. Per Jeff H. statement, he saw her at the ale house the first tuesday of July.

 

[BondJamesBond]

The alibi given by Casey actually changed during this time period, according to Cindy's FBI interview. If you'll recall, Zanny's tragic accident was on June 23rd, after which Casey and Zanny went to the hospital (in Tampa I think) and Juliet took Caylee and Annabelle back to the hotel. On the 26th, Zanny was released from the hospital and Jennifer had flown in to Tampa also. The whole group was staying at the hotel.

Cindy says that, on the afternoon of June 27th, Casey told her they were all back in Orlando for a "meeting"--maybe Cindy had seen the car and asked for an explanation, as suggested by one poster above??--and Jeff was in Orlando as well. Casey, Zanny, Caylee, and Jeff (and who knows which kids and roommates) stayed at the Hard Rock in Orlando until June 30.

Cindy says Casey told her that she (Casey) was going to come home on the 30th, and Jennifer was going to take all the kids to Zanny's place, because Zanny, poor thing, couldn't lift the kids because of her pain from the accident.

Cindy then says "George never saw her come home." :waitasec: But Cindy's the one who had the day off June 30. George should have been working 3-11 pm that day (his last day at that job). So Cindy expected George to see Casey come home sometime before 3 pm while Cindy was, for some reason, not home?

FROM JUNE 30 TO JULY 3, Cindy (allegedly) believed that Casey and Caylee were staying at Zanny's place (in Orlando). ON JULY 3, Casey "confessed" that they had really been in Jacksonville with Jeff and Zachary since June 30.

So Cindy didn't know about the Jacksonville alibi until July 3.

Thanks, AZ. I dunno how you did it...but you actually made sense outta the nonsense.

Alright, then. Based on this evolution of the alibi it isn't outta the question that Cindy's post-midnight calls were of the call-Casey-after-work variety since she *thought* they were in Orlando @ the time.

 

[BondJamesBond]

July 1st Amy said Casey had her nails done.
Page 1046 Lines 13-17 Amy H. Interview with LE on 7/23/2008
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

*snipped*

SHADOW! Great to see you!! :dance:

Hey - thanks for all the info. Esp. lemme take a sec to focus on the nails. We've kinda gone around that one a bit...and it certainly has a temptation about it since the implication is that Casey would've wanted her nails done to get rid of possible evidence.

Rereading - and prepared for someone to point out my sleep-deprived error - it appears to me that Casey actually got her nails done 6/30 vs. 7/1.

Page 1046:

Lines 15-16 Amy says Casey came over with them (nails) done
Lines 17-18 LE asks if that was 7/1 and Amy agrees
Lines 20-25 Amy says in her original affidavit she indicated 7/1, but, after consulting her phone records corrects this to 6/30, which is when we know Casey came over to go a-hunting-gas-cans.​

Hafta take another look @ that link of handwritten receipts, but, it seems Casey had her nails done 6/30, or perhaps the day or two prior.

I'd appreciate others taking a look to weigh in.

IF nails were done 6/30 or before...then getting them done may come off the table as far as having anything to do w/ revisiting the disposal site.

ETA1: Looking @ pings after Casey dropped Tony @ the airport that morning ~9AM. While there are pings in the area of Ricardo & Amy's before Noon 6/30, the pings don't lock in there until ~12:30PM. I'll hold off doing the detailed analysis until later, but, let's just say it begs a look to see if there was enough time for Casey to:

• drive to Amscot in the Jeep,
• attempt to clean the trunk, resulting in paper towels that were placed in the white trash bag,
• then need & get a manicure

ETA2: After a little sleep I recalled that the Pontiac was towed ~9AM...taking a Monday 6/30 cleaning off the table :doh:. Soooo...perhaps the pings will support a little pampering time @ a nail salon near R&M's apartment.

 

[AZlawyer]

*snipped*

SHADOW! Great to see you!! :dance:

Hey - thanks for all the info. Esp. lemme take a sec to focus on the nails. We've kinda gone around that one a bit...and it certainly has a temptation about it since the implication is that Casey would've wanted her nails done to get rid of possible evidence.

Rereading - and prepared for someone to point out my sleep-deprived error - it appears to me that Casey actually got her nails done 6/30 vs. 7/1.

Page 1046:

Lines 15-16 Amy says Casey came over with them (nails) done
Lines 17-18 LE asks if that was 7/1 and Amy agrees
Lines 20-25 Amy says in her original affidavit she indicated 7/1, but, after consulting her phone records corrects this to 6/30, which is when we know Casey came over to go a-hunting-gas-cans.​

Hafta take another look @ that link of handwritten receipts, but, it seems Casey had her nails done 6/30, or perhaps the day or two prior.

I'd appreciate others taking a look to weigh in.

IF nails were done 6/30 or before...then getting them done may come off the table as far as having anything to do w/ revisiting the disposal site.

ETA: Looking @ pings after Casey dropped Tony @ the airport that morning ~9AM. While there are pings in the area of Ricardo & Amy's before Noon 6/30, the pings don't lock in there until ~12:30PM. I'll hold off doing the detailed analysis until later, but, let's just say it begs a look to see if there was enough time for Casey to:

• drive to Amscot in the Jeep,
• attempt to clean the trunk, resulting in paper towels that were placed in the white trash bag,
• then need & get a manicure

I agree that it is unlikely that the manicure was July 1, since Amy is on the video with Casey at JC Penney's that day, but she talks about the manicure as if she was not with Casey at the time.

Interesting questions about the morning of 6/30, but I can't quite picture Casey trying to clean decomp fluid out of her trunk in broad daylight in a parking lot at a busy streetcorner. :sick:

 

[BondJamesBond]

I agree that it is unlikely that the manicure was July 1, since Amy is on the video with Casey at JC Penney's that day, but she talks about the manicure as if she was not with Casey at the time.

Interesting questions about the morning of 6/30, but I can't quite picture Casey trying to clean decomp fluid out of her trunk in broad daylight in a parking lot at a busy streetcorner. :sick:

Thanks, AZ. I edited my original post. IIRC, a 9AM tow time would take 6/30AM trunk cleaning off the table too. :doh:

Think I'll sleep more & post less.

 

[JWG]

Maura on another board pointed out that in Dante's interview and Jeff Hopkin's interview that Casey was at the Miller Ale House on July 1. Dante was sure of the date because he looked at a receipt. He thought he saw KC there around 8 PM.

There is a Miller Ale House at 6141 South Semoran, which is right in the area it appears KC was driving around. It is possible that she was there during the time the odd pings took place, although I am hard-pressed to figure out why she continuously pinged off the north-facing CID of the tower at Johnson's and not the west-facing CID, or better yet, why she does not ping off either of the two towers that are much closer to the Ale House than the Johnson's tower. :waitasec: I have to admit, though, her sitting in the Ale House that whole time makes a LOT more sense than her driving around and parking here / there.

Sometimes those darned pings can get you...:banghead:

 

[Gma Kat]

I've read the sleep threads and cell pings thread (thanks and I bow to you all who did the work...) and perhaps I am mentally fried from having done this - but....

are we married to the idea that KC would have her phone physically on her when at the dump site? I am imagining in the darkest hours that she parks one place and hoofs it (or some other mode of transportation) to the dump site during any possible "revisit" period. Just thinkin' again.....

 

[BondJamesBond]

If the post-midnight flurry calling was nothing more than Cindy's pleas to see Caylee, what would've triggered Casey to goto the disposal area @ 4:50AM 7/2? :waitasec:

Why that night?

Casey knew Tony would be back 7/5 and her freedom w/ the Jeep was fading. And the Jeep obviously gave her some 'cover' from being spotted by G&C during the daytime if all she needed/wanted to do was drive by something.

Perhaps the long phone call w/ Tony that ended before the 4AM adventure was the one we heard Tony describe when he pushed Casey's buttons and mused about not coming back to Orlando :waitasec: IIRC, he said this notion brought Casey to tears. That scenario might tee up a bit of a, WTH-have-I-done?!?! response.
Although we don't know (yet rayer if Ryan was describing the specific 4:50AM call when he said Casey admitted drug use to him. IF we allow that it was describing that convo...it certainly casts a sense of Casey being of mind that she needed to confess her sins and, perhaps, was seeking some absolution.

That Casey called Ryan instead of Jesse is quite interesting too. Setting aside the notion that the 7/1 shower might've been a mission to frame Jesse - did Casey come away from that visit feeling rejected? Rejected enough that it brought Ryan to the fore? Recall the text convo 'tween Amy and Casey when Casey seemed melancholy about a relationship with Ryan? Admittedly, this could have been nothing more than a ruse Casey used w/ Amy...still :waitasec:

Need to check again on the timing of Troy's gfriend's arrival too. If she didn't arrive until the day she spent so much time w/ Casey, 7/3, then perhaps her impending visit caused Casey to see her opportunities to escape alone before 7/5 were vanishing by 7/2AM. :waitasec: Was the gf's arrival the topic of convo @ Ricardo & Amy's 7/1PM?

IIRC, Amy texted Casey earlier in the week about bbq party @ Will's 7/4. Gotta party...'nother night bites the dust.

Did Casey's world get knocked off its axis by Tony's antics that night just enough that she decided to take what might be her last bit of freedom that week to reset...the end result being the eff-it-all resolve that yielded, "Diary of Days", and, a tattoo? "Trust no one...only youself."

I think I've reached the max allowable questions for one post

 

[seagull65]

Maura on another board pointed out that in Dante's interview and Jeff Hopkin's interview that Casey was at the Miller Ale House on July 1. Dante was sure of the date because he looked at a receipt. He thought he saw KC there around 8 PM.

There is a Miller Ale House at 6141 South Semoran, which is right in the area it appears KC was driving around. It is possible that she was there during the time the odd pings took place, although I am hard-pressed to figure out why she continuously pinged off the north-facing CID of the tower at Johnson's and not the west-facing CID, or better yet, why she does not ping off either of the two towers that are much closer to the Ale House than the Johnson's tower. :waitasec: I have to admit, though, her sitting in the Ale House that whole time makes a LOT more sense than her driving around and parking here / there.

Sometimes those darned pings can get you...:banghead:

I thought she was there with them (the Lake Vaj guys, including Dante) at Waterford Ale House July 1, not a case of Dante having just seen her in passing, right?

 

[seagull65]

I remember asking early in the case but never found out, were any of her pings consistent with any stops by the Lake Vaj house? (On any dates really in June-July, sorry to be so vague)

Also, the "loops by the remains site"-- could she just have been driving by Lee's thinking of going there, looking to see if he was home, or actually spending any time at Lee's, or scoping out her parents' house with thoughts of going in for some of her clothes or other things if she could get in and out without them hassling her, etc? (or for gas for example, from either Lee's or her parents' home). What else is in that ping area? Kio's parents house is there, don't know if Kio was there at the time (I only mention because of Kio's first story to LE about having gotten back in touch with Casey, Casey needing to borrow money, the discussion of let me know where to meet you with the money, etc, of course later recanted by Kio and she gave different dates anyway, July 9 I think, but anyway), what else is within that ping area, the house at the end of the street (the F. Gonzales house, the one that backs to the remains site) was it already for sale then, was it vacant? The Brackenwood house.... just trying to remember what all is within that ping area

If Casey is the killer, I wouldn't doubt if she did loop by the remains site--whoever the killer is, Casey or otherwise, I wouldn't be surprsied if they returned to the scene MOO

 

[seagull65]

p.s. I always thought the call to Ryan at that hour was probably just a flirtatious thing, if it happened after being rejected at Jesse's when she went there to "use his shower", then I do think she probably called Ryan just to flirt (but maybe I have my dates off there) I always thought she was probably looking to reconnect with old friends (male friends) during this time frame because of Tony not being around and also because of him being so dismissive and everything MOO. But maybe there is more to the Ryan call that we'll learn about at trial or something

 

[seagull65]

thank you so much to all you people who are on top of all the pings!

 

[Jolynna]

If I had just revisited by dead daughter's remains, in the condition Caylee was most likely in, I might have a "freak out" moment and need to talk to my long-time best friend to calm me down.

There are lots of pretenses Casey could have used to explain being hysterical...she told Tony her nightmares were from worry over their "relationship" and the possibility of breaking up. I guess she could have told Ryan the same thing..."I'm freaking out because I'm afraid Tony might leave me. Calm me down. The possibility of 'true love' is worth anything you've got to go through to get it, right? Tell me 'love' is worth any price?"