Casey Returned to the Disposal Site - Theories

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Could Casey's statement that went something like "They haven't even found the clothes yet" be related to a return visit to the remains site and what she saw there? I don't remember the details about where Caylee's clothes/clothing parts were found and if this could be possible. Could Casey have seen an item of clothing when she returned to the sight, but didn't look hard enough to find bones, etc. If she could easily find an item of Caylee's clothes perhaps she expected that someone else would be able to also.

I was thinking that she was relating to the "laundry bag" filled with "clothes" as how she attempted to disguise Caylee's body in the woods. This fits in line w/ynotdivein's theory of kc using the baby blanket to transport Caylee in a sling like fashion (possibly after using one corner of the blanket soaked in chloroform) and then using the blanket on top of the laundry bag to conceal her little body. This could possibly be kc's freudian slip of "clothes" meaning concealment in laundry bag.
 
:bow: phenomenal thread.

I 100% have always thought she returned to the remains site even before Baez read her disapproving statement regarding Cindy going against her wishes and having Caylee cremated.
 
:bow: phenomenal thread.

I 100% have always thought she returned to the remains site even before Baez read her disapproving statement regarding Cindy going against her wishes and having Caylee cremated.

ITA!

I am also just learning the sleuthing stuff and mostly read, but this thread is awesome!
 
Bravo to JBJ, JWG, AZlawyer, Harmony, et al!!!!

This is a great thread!
 
I think KC might have driven past the site many times (to see if there was any activity in the area), but did not get out of the car and go back into the woods to check on the body or place or remove anything from the site itself. IMO having driven Caylee around for a week or so and not disposing of her until forced to do so by George almost catching KC on gas can day, it seems to me that she was having a very difficult time dealing with anything to do with the body of the deceased Caylee. I wonder how long Caylee would have remained in the trunk if George had not almost caught KC red-handed that day. IMO once she dropped her off in a panic, she would never go near the remains again. The closest she came to the woods after the fact was a quick drive by to check the safety of the remains disposal site.
 
Add'l food for thought...

Looking at this "revisiting the disposal site" aspect opens up some interesting areas to explore further too.

For example...

1) My curiosity in the gnat's-arse details of the 7/2, 4:50AM, 14min call with Ryan is through the roof right now. And because LE is years ahead of us on all this now post-disposal discovery in 12/08...

2) ...it leads me to believe strongly that LE drilled deeeeeply into this event w/ Ryan meaning that there just HASTA' :snooty: be an unreleased interview w/ him that we haven't seen yet :woohoo: ...

C)...which leads me to believe there are other aspects (e.g. evidence) specifically related to a return visit to the disposal site that we also haven't seen yet.

What can I say? :doh: I'm easily led :rolleyes:



This is the first time I've read this thread and only got a few posts past yours when something hit me. Forgive me if this has been brought up already.

It's funny BJB that you bring up Ryan as lately I've begun to reassess him also. I've also been going back over old video's because we know so much more now that it's worth taking a look back at these things to see if I can see any info given in a different light. Thought I'd bring this first visit from jail with her parents to your attention. Because in it CA asks if KC has any messages she wants her to give to any of KC's friends, and KC says "tell Ryan thanks for all his help". Hmmmm.......kind of curious isn't it? What help did you give KC Ryan?....thats what I want to know.

It's at the 18:53 mark in the video below:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

:cow:
 
so sorry dont know where to put this but when i saw the reference to car title i noticed a phone call on the 16th of july at 04:54 to w. colonial tag agency. why would she make this phone call?
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/lazarro4280-4333.pdf
I must have missed this phone call. Why would she be calling the tag agency so early in the morning on the 16th (just as LE was closing in on her arrest) ? I wonder if she was thinking about taking the car and running with a new tag on the car and/or a different name on the title ?
 
I must have missed this phone call. Why would she be calling the tag agency so early in the morning on the 16th (just as LE was closing in on her arrest) ? I wonder if she was thinking about taking the car and running with a new tag on the car and/or a different name on the title ?
I wonder if she forged the car title in another name and was waiting on the new tags? Maybe she thought the car was still where she left it? I bet she was about to run. Did Cindy threaten her over the phone to track the car down and have it taken from her prior to the car dump date? Maybe that's why she dumped it in the first place, so she wouldn't be found in the event LE tracked the car down.
 
This is the first time I've read this thread and only got a few posts past yours when something hit me. Forgive me if this has been brought up already.

It's funny BJB that you bring up Ryan as lately I've begun to reassess him also. I've also been going back over old video's because we know so much more now that it's worth taking a look back at these things to see if I can see any info given in a different light. Thought I'd bring this first visit from jail with her parents to your attention. Because in it CA asks if KC has any messages she wants her to give to any of KC's friends, and KC says "tell Ryan thanks for all his help". Hmmmm.......kind of curious isn't it? What help did you give KC Ryan?....thats what I want to know.

It's at the 18:53 mark in the video below:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

:cow:

Wasn't Casey's friend, Ryan, the person that knew P.I.'s and had some experience doing skip traces? IIRC, he had resources that were going to help find Casey's "missing" friends (the Jeff H. with a son named Zack, Juliet Lewis, Samantha, Zani's roommates, etc.), Zani & an alive Caylee.
 
Fwiw there appear to be 2 prime candidates for retern trips. The first one described by JWG almost appears as a getting-her-courage-up exercise, in contrast to the second trip which was very direct & purposeful (i.e. No looping that we can see and she called Ryan and Ryan only.)

I certainly get the hesitancy to envision Casey getting out amongst the remains. Per the rainfall I posted above I suspect the area was beginning to get pretty wet if not already a little standing water. However, I've also come to see Casey as acting only when necessary for self-preservation. IOW... Casey dint drag her arse out there @ 4:50AM for nothin' IYKWIM.

Perhaps the loss of the car was a reality check that had her ueber-paranoid about her ultra-stooopid-spur-of-the-moment-outta-convenience choice of a disposal site. :waitasec: and it took a characteristically unplanned trip to the site to attempt a move for reality to smack her 'tween the eyes. 3 steps off the shoulder of the road...starting to sink in the mud...and *boom* outta there. :takeoff:

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Seems right on to me-When I used to be out too late as a teenager, I would circle the block around our house to see if the lights were on before I would actually pull in. It would not have made a difference, I was either busted or I wasn't, but I wanted control and advanced notice of my troubles!

The trouble KC made was a thousand times beyond staying out past curfew-She was definately worried. You would think she would know not to make phone calls, but she made enough calls for us to be able to follow her around town on almost a minute to minute basis! The call to Ryan had to be triggered by her state of mind, he was a "safe," comfort contact.

Did she get out of the truck? Hard to tell, I would say if a particular object can be singled out that puts her there later, we got a connection to the actual site.
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The ping pros can answer you on the technical end, but for my part I am not basing my assumption on the pings alone-When I look at the big picture and KC's whereabouts that day and especially the day before (when she would have found her car missing), I find it quite plausible that she did visit at least the remains area, if not the actual bag.
Initially I thought the same as you wrote above, or that she was just driving by her parents' house to see if maybe cops were there. However, there are certain changes in her behavior after this night/morning that I believe could be a result of her observing the body.
I wrote earlier that I would need to know if she left something there in order to be 100% certain she revisited the remains-And that still holds true, it is the only way to know for sure. But as you already know, we have to fill in certain blanks, which seems okay as long as we use common sense and logic, not gossip and mistatements.
_________________________________________________________________

All of the above was bolded by me = DG

If we go by what the experts tell us then many times criminals DO revisit the scene of their crimes. So if we guesstimate that KC is in that category(revisiting crime scene), and we have pings that put her in that area under the cover of darkness-when she is least likely to be detected, and she is in a different vehicle, (that too would give her a feeling of being incognito).

What if she did leave something behind and was going to go back and try to find it. I am sure she was also just checking the area but that's not the only reason she could have gone back. For the sake of debate, lets say that she had on her tiffany heart ring(or any small ring for that matter) when she dumped Caylee. But days later she realizes she cannot find that ring. I went through some pictures on the WFTV site and I noticed that in the photo of Casey laying on her back with her knees bent up where Caylee is laying on her bent legs(Caylee is in the striped shorts), in that photo KC has a ring on her right hand, it is a smaller width ring, but I cannot make out if it is the heart ring. However, going through the rest of the photos, the ones where KC is at Fusion, in her black dress and another night in her blue dress (hot body contest night-can't remember the dates). In those photos, she has no rings on her right hand but she does have a very wide ring on her left hand. So the ring she is wearing in the Fusion pics is clearly NOT the little ring she is wearing in the picture of her with Caylee. What if she lost this little ring at the dump site? I would imagine if you are in the process of dumping your murdered baby, you would NOT notice if a ring slipped off your finger!

Check it out yourselves. Picture #13 of 96 and pic#56 of 96 are of KC and Caylee, and KC has on a little ring on her right hand.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html

Then in pic #83 + 84 (Black dress at Fusion) she is not wearing the little right hand ring but is wearing a large LEFT hand ring. I do not know the date of this picture but I am pretty sure it was AFTER June 16th.
Then in pic#69, 71, 74, 88, she is in the blue dress at Fusion (hot body contest night) and she has on the large left hand ring again but NO little right hand ring. This picture I know for sure was taken after June 16th.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html

Also in pic #67, 96, it sure looks to me like she has NO panties on. I have never seen these pics before. It just struck me as "wow......really? you are supposedly looking for clues about the nanny who snatched your baby and you are doing it with no panties??!!!" Sorry....it's just another shaking my head moment (one of many with KC).
_______________________________________________________________

OK, bear with me, I know this is a long post. But going through these photos, I got to pic#36 of 96, which is the dark jungle looking picture with a pathway in the center. The word love is scrawled across the top which allows only the legs of a girls jeans to be visable standing in the pathway into the jungle. It seems to me when we have extraordinary, stressful, traumatic, remarkable -- whatever label you want to put on it, when those events in our lives happen, our brains mark them and then when we come across something that reminds us of that event, we are drawn to it, if it is a picture, we want that picture. I think that is what happened with this picture. I think KC kept this pic b/c it reminded her of the area where she dumped Caylee and possibly of her night time trip back there in the dark. Does anyone know how to get the date that KC added this "jungle love" picture to her account? If so....it sure would be something if it could be proven it was AFTER June 16th wouldn't it?...since it is so reminiscent of the dump site she used.

Since I've gone this far I may as well keep going. Pic#32 is of "WTP Tiger" made out of flowers (like for a float), and Caylee had WTP theme in her room right? OK...so then pic #38 is of a real tiger who is sitting near his recent kill, guarding it or watching over, proud of his kill and it looks like he is resting after eating his fill of his kill. Now, does anyone else remember very early on in this case there was a picture that looked like KC had photo shopped the real tiger into the "jungle love" picture? Because I do remember seeing that. But at that time I didn't see where the real tiger came from......that it was a pic of a tiger looking satisfied by his kill of an innocent animal. Knowing that KC did that....now, that gives me the willys. Like, she was not only the "jeans girl" in the jungle love pic but the tiger too, IDK.....I can't explain it. I'll try to find the pic with the tiger photo shopped in.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html

Anyway.....wondering if KC lost her little right hand ring and went back in someone else's car (AL's?) to look for it in the middle of the night as well as checking to make sure she had hidden Caylee's body well. Maybe she couldn't go through with it, or maybe she saw a little of her dirty deed and got scared off.....who knows, but I do think she tried to go in there.....whether she stayed is another story. Just thought I'd bring this stuff to everyones attention as I think that little ring falling off at the dump site is a possibility.

MOO
 
FWIW, there's a thread [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92603"]here[/ame] re: ring. I haven't made it through that one yet.

Just thinkin' out loud for a second. While it is certainly possible that Casey could've gone back to the site out of fear that she'd lost the ring there. She sure would've had a tough time finding it ~4-5AM in the morning. Even with a flashlight, full moon (I haven't checked), etc.

I'm guessing LE/CSI used metal detectors when they combed the site. Although I don't remember ever seeing a pic of them doing it. They recovered soooooo much stuff :clap:. So they would've had a decent shot @ finding the ring if it was in the area. Not a certainty...but a pretty good shot, IMHO.
 
I think it was morbid curiosity more than anything else. We all know, Casey like Cindy has to feel like she is in control. It also probably gave her an adrenaline rush to relive the crime, to watch as "the evidence" horrifically yet quietly, merged with the forest floor.
Quite disturbing considering the plant growth suggests the remains had rested where they were discovered in December for some time.

All she would have needed in hopes to peer through and get a glimpse, was the light her cell phone(s?) illuminated.
 
Casey was supposedly in jogging clothes the morning she dumped the car. I can see her jogging by and stopping to tie a shoe or something, plus driving by many times.
 
Well, if you are going to bring that adage, Ray Kronk also returned to that site.

Did Casey fulfill the adage that the criminal, "always returns"? If she did, when & why?
 
Well, if you are going to bring that adage, Ray Kronk also returned to that site.

We already know that he did.
We also know the when as well as the why because he reported what he found to the authorities.

:banghead: Moving on...
 
Well, if you are going to bring that adage, Ray Kronk also returned to that site.
Roy Kronk went back again to search for Caylee's body when he wasn't successful, NOT make sure she stayed buried. If he had planted it, he wouldn't be calling authorities and calling attention to himself.:doh:
In contrast, Scott Peterson did rent a car and drive back to overlook the bay, to make sure Laci hadn't floated up...
 
FWIW, there's a thread here re: ring. I haven't made it through that one yet.

Just thinkin' out loud for a second. While it is certainly possible that Casey could've gone back to the site out of fear that she'd lost the ring there. She sure would've had a tough time finding it ~4-5AM in the morning. Even with a flashlight, full moon (I haven't checked), etc.

I'm guessing LE/CSI used metal detectors when they combed the site. Although I don't remember ever seeing a pic of them doing it. They recovered soooooo much stuff :clap:. So they would've had a decent shot @ finding the ring if it was in the area. Not a certainty...but a pretty good shot, IMHO.


Yes it was a long shot....I think she was just drawn back there. To check and make sure nothing was disturbed and b/c she is a criminal and was drawn back for some psychologically inexplicable reason. And she went under the cover of night and in AL's vehicle. When she downloaded the "dark jungle picture" .....I think it was a reminder of where she dumped her daughter, and she needed/wanted that picture b/c of it's association with Caylee and her dirty deed. That's just MOO.

I can still hope tor the long shot of her little right hand ring having slipped off at the dump site w/o her realizing it. Who knows.....stranger things have happened!
 
Wasn't Casey's friend, Ryan, the person that knew P.I.'s and had some experience doing skip traces? IIRC, he had resources that were going to help find Casey's "missing" friends (the Jeff H. with a son named Zack, Juliet Lewis, Samantha, Zani's roommates, etc.), Zani & an alive Caylee.

Yes and he's the one that was listed as "best friend" in her cell phone according to YM. And he has known her since elementary or middle school. He is also the one GA said he hoped KC would end up with. And he is the one KC called at like 4 or 5 am the morning her pings show she was driving near the remains site. Curious huh?

IDK.....Me thinks there is more to know about RP. That's just moo though.

:cow:
 
FWIW, there's a thread here re: ring. I haven't made it through that one yet.

Just thinkin' out loud for a second. While it is certainly possible that Casey could've gone back to the site out of fear that she'd lost the ring there. She sure would've had a tough time finding it ~4-5AM in the morning. Even with a flashlight, full moon (I haven't checked), etc.

I'm guessing LE/CSI used metal detectors when they combed the site. Although I don't remember ever seeing a pic of them doing it. They recovered soooooo much stuff :clap:. So they would've had a decent shot @ finding the ring if it was in the area. Not a certainty...but a pretty good shot, IMHO.


I think you are right, but there is a part of me that thinks KC thinks SOO highly of herself that she would actually think she had a shot at finding that little ring on a dark, rainy night. As TMc said, "she has no concept of reality". She was probably going to use her little keyring flashlight also. Ok....now I'm just being cheeky but I couldn't stop myself.

:cow:

Still.....it would be soo great if she left behind some little thing that is irrefutable...wouldn't it? Right in the bag with Caylee. Something no one has even thought of. I'm holding out for that. I don't ask or expect much now do I? lol
 
I have thought about her ring a lot and her mom knowing it was gone. Perhaps it was found and somehow her mother knows it. It was strange that she asked Casey where it was in one of the jail tapes. One of my therios has always been that someone moved the body for her early on perhaps they found her ring.
 
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