Casey to GA "We need to stick together on this." 8/14/08 Jail Visit

[Pondering Mind]

Yikes! Does anyone know how to fix the broken quotes? I DON'T and I think I started it! :crazy:

 

[Hope for the Best]

I really hate to say this, or think it, but all the little comments about the "not telling anything" or the "we forgive you for saying things" I think have to do with Caylee's paternity, and with that, Lee being the father. I really hope I am wrong on this, but if Lee was Caylee's father, those comments, along with a lot of other things, would make a lot more sense. Like, why Casey wasn't receiving child support and there was no daddy on the BC. And, why he made it difficult for LE to get his DNA. And, why he was mad at Casey when he found out she was pregnant. I'm not thinking that Lee had anything to do with Caylee's murder, but if he were the father, it would explain the deep dark secret that they are trying to hide.

 

[nancy botwin]

Yikes! Does anyone know how to fix the broken quotes? I DON'T and I think I started it! :crazy:

Everyone has to go back and edit their own broken quotes-- look for extra or missing ['s and ]'s
Each quoted segment should start with [*QUOTE=username*] and end with [*/QUOTE*] , without the *'s

hope that makes sense!

 

[Oakley]

Yikes! Does anyone know how to fix the broken quotes? I DON'T and I think I started it! :crazy:

And I think I've been contributing to it (trying to fix it but not being successful.)

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

But, if CA knew from the start what happened to Caylee, why would she have told the people at work about the smell, or for that matter, even let the car be picked up at Amscot. They could've dumped that car in a lake, reported it stolen and never been heard from again. Even if she had figured it all out after talking to her co-workers, she still could have come up with some story about a dead dog or something to explain the smell and said that she finally heard from Casey and that she and Caylee had reunited with Caylee's father and now live in Tennessee or some other BS story.

What I said was that Cindy may have called 911 because she figured if she didn't, someone else might call...for example, someone from her work or the tow yard.

She might not have come up with a Tennessee story or dead dog story, but she did try to come up with a Caylee is with the babysitter, we can't tell anyone where but we are watching them, and it was dead squirrels and bad pizza. Not all that different from the crazy stories you say they could have come up with. I'd say the one they did come up with was maybe even crazier.

 

[Zingo]

yes, she had discussed with people about her being a sociopath (lying/theft), but since there had never been any history of her mistreating Caylee or having any hostility toward Caylee, she didn't believe that KC could ever harm Caylee. All of the friends said the same thing in the interviews with LE (and here on this site).

And that is what makes this case so addictive! How could a mother go from lying to murdering? What makes a person turn into a killer? It's fascinating and morbid all at once.

I can totally see how CA and friends would be in denial that KC is responsible.

I don't even know her, and I find it logically hard to believe someone who lives in nice house, with "normal" middle-class parents, could murder their two-year-old, dump her in the woods, and go clubbing for 31 days.

It's like she's a monster in a normal person's body.

And so while CA is admitting KC was a liar and a thief, she can't bring herself to believe the worst.

 

[seagull65]

I know we've discussed it before here but it's documented that compulsive liars often lived in constant fear of punishment as children. They learn to lie to survive and many of them report that they only feel safe when they are lying. Some children are actually taught to lie, for example, when an abuser threatens them with harm if they tell, or if kids are not allowed to mention dad's overdrinking or whatever. Things like that can start a whole lifetime of lying. Eventually the instinct to lie becomes so engrained they can't shut it off. They derive comfort from their imaginary life. I wonder who took care of KC when she was a child, while Cindy and George were working. A lot of people say they must have overindulged Casey, but they might not have done anything wrong at all. There could be something that has nothing to do with them. My opinion only of course.

I'm not convinced yet that KC is the killer, I'll have to see more evidence presented in the trial that proves that.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

I really hate to say this, or think it, but all the little comments about the "not telling anything" or the "we forgive you for saying things" I think have to do with Caylee's paternity, and with that, Lee being the father. I really hope I am wrong on this, but if Lee was Caylee's father, those comments, along with a lot of other things, would make a lot more sense. Like, why Casey wasn't receiving child support and there was no daddy on the BC. And, why he made it difficult for LE to get his DNA. And, why he was mad at Casey when he found out she was pregnant. I'm not thinking that Lee had anything to do with Caylee's murder, but if he were the father, it would explain the deep dark secret that they are trying to hide.

I hope you are wrong too....but I am starting to think more and more that it might be right. It would explain an awful lot.

 

[Oakley]

And that is what makes this case so addictive! How could a mother go from lying to murdering? What makes a person turn into a killer? It's fascinating and morbid all at once.

I can totally see how CA and friends would be in denial that KC is responsible.

I don't even know her, and I find it logically hard to believe someone who lives in nice house, with "normal" middle-class parents, could murder their two-year-old, dump her in the woods, and go clubbing for 31 days.

It's like she's a monster in a normal person's body.

And so while CA is admitting KC was a liar and a thief, she can't bring herself to believe the worst.

Which of Casey's friends do you think is in denial that she is responsible for murdering Caylee?

 

[Pondering Mind]

Exactly, Seagull. Most parents would do exactly what you describe -- pester their child to come clean. But as we all know the Anthony's are not a normal family. :bang: They are highly dysfunctional. I don't know where I heard this: Maybe on NG, but someone described GA and CA as KC's "hostages." They are hostage to her. She knows how to push their buttons. She knows how to get them to back off. We see this in the video where KC shakes her clenched fist and clenches her teeth, and is seething with anger. All her mom did was ask about a location she visited in attempting to find her granddaughter. Once KC got angry, GA and CA backed off. They are so AFRAID of KC's wrath.

And your point about how they believed Caylee might be harmed if KC told the truth is just one more example of KC's manipulative hold on them. They are so caught up in her lies they can't see the truth anymore. KC convinced them not to question her because she told them Caylee (and indeed the entire family) would be at further risk if it got out in the media. That doesn't make sense to anybody in the real world. But to the Anthony's, it's plausible.

Even after her death, Caylee was still being used as a pawn in her mother's deceptive schemes ...

Great Post!
Welcome To WS! :wave:

 

[seagull65]

well someone definitely murdered Caylee, it's unbelievable anyway you look at it. God bless that child. I hope they get the right person.

 

[Zingo]

Which of Casey's friends do you think is in denial that she is responsible for murdering Caylee?

Several of KC's friends stated she was a good mother to Caylee (didn't ever hurt her or yell at her). So, I'm sure it's hard for them to believe she would kill her. Don't you think? Even though that's where all the evidence points ... I don't have any evidence that her friends are in denial about her guilt, however. Sorry for mis-stating that...

 

[Oakley]

well someone definitely murdered Caylee, it's unbelievable anyway you look at it. God bless that child. I hope they get the right person.

God bless Caylee, indeed. What a beautiful, precious child. I have full confidence that justice will be served for her.

 

[Oakley]

Several of KC's friends stated she was a good mother to Caylee (didn't ever hurt her or yell at her). So, I'm sure it's hard for them to believe she would kill her. Don't you think? Even though that's where all the evidence points ... I don't have any evidence that her friends are in denial about her guilt, however. Sorry for mis-stating that...

Shocked, surprised, hard to believe etc are different from what I understand as 'denial.' You don't need to apologize. I just see it differently. And that's OK!:blowkiss:

 

[yosande]

Watching the jailhouse videos, I just come to the conclusion that Casey is trying to manipulate her parents, and they are scared to confront her. This points to a dysfunctional family, but I don't see how it implicates GA or CA in a "cover up."

When I heard KC say, "We've always stuck together and we need to stick together on this," it's just her manipulative gobblety gook. The implication is: "It's US against everybody else" and KC is trying to convince her parents of her complete innocence, and victim status.

And, I don't think they're convinced of her innocence, at least from the way they're acting in the videos. GA doesn't look KC in the eyes, and seems to patronize her by rotely agreeing with her. CA is a basketcase, and when she asks pointed questions, KC freaks out. This is how KC is able to manipulate her parents, and no doubt how she's manipulated them in the past: she rages. And then they back off.

My brother was addicted to drugs while in high school, and I saw how he behaved in a similar way to KC with her parents. (Fortunately, he got help in rehab, and he's doing great now). But before that, anytime my parents confronted him about his actions or behavior or whether he was doing drugs, he turned the conversation around and attacked them, or tried to make them believe he was the victim of a conspiracy by the police, or his teachers, or "the system." He was completely dishonest and manipulative, and I recognize the pattern. I don't know if KC has been a drug addict or not, but I see in her behavior what I remember with my brother. And for so many years, my parents were in denial. So that rings true, too, when I see GA and CA defending KC.

It's cruel ... My heart actually feels so sorry for the Anthony family.

(Sorry to be longwinded on my first post! I've been reading all the wonderful posts here for a couple of months.)

I agree with you zingo. I want to add that KC had been refusing visits, and this is the first one since August 3rd with her dad, and also the first one since Caylee's birthday. She wants the attention and sympathy on her, and not on CA or Caylee, partly because of narcasism, and partly because of the need to redirect the focus away from their grief and anger, because I think CA was close to being confrontational and KC recognized it. She knew she had to nip that in the bud, and using CA's maternal instinct in her favor was exactly the way to do it. jmo
I don't think they are afraid of KC, but rather accustomed to managing her tantrums, which I expect are frequent. I remember AH making statements about her getting too upset about petty things with RM.
I find it interesting that they catch it at the onset, and tell her to "calm down" and "don't get upset" often, which I would find patronizing, but she knows just how to use it to her advantage. She gets their complete "handle her" attention. She is completely manipulating them, and they are extremely patient with her. I also think her dad gets sick to his stomach every time he looks at her, and that's why he avoids doing so. jmo

 

[Hope for the Best]

What I said was that Cindy may have called 911 because she figured if she didn't, someone else might call...for example, someone from her work or the tow yard.

She might not have come up with a Tennessee story or dead dog story, but she did try to come up with a Caylee is with the babysitter, we can't tell anyone where but we are watching them, and it was dead squirrels and bad pizza. Not all that different from the crazy stories you say they could have come up with. I'd say the one they did come up with was maybe even crazier.

I see what you are saying, but the difference is who the stories are being told to, not what the stories are. If she would've just been telling these stories to co-workers/family members/friends to explain Caylee's absence and the bizarre behavior/smell just to wrap up the stories she had already told, these people would probably never know. It doesn't really sound like they had any close friends, or family really, other than Cindy's parents, but they could've been convinced of a story that explained Caylee's absence. They could have helped Casey truly get away with murder. But, instead, the 911 call was made, and they stuck with a crazy nanny story, but they were telling this story to LE, and they are not as easily convinced, especially since the story they told involved a kidnapping, which of course is against the law. I think that Casey thought she could probably just tell them that Caylee was with the nanny, but they weren't quite as dismissive as other people (co-workers/friends/family) might have been, and possibly when Lee told Casey that the cops wouldn't buy her story, she panicked and came up with the kidnapping story.

 

[Zingo]

What I said was that Cindy may have called 911 because she figured if she didn't, someone else might call...for example, someone from her work or the tow yard.

She might not have come up with a Tennessee story or dead dog story, but she did try to come up with a Caylee is with the babysitter, we can't tell anyone where but we are watching them, and it was dead squirrels and bad pizza. Not all that different from the crazy stories you say they could have come up with. I'd say the one they did come up with was maybe even crazier.

IMO, there would have been no decomp in the car if the parents knew about the death and helped KC dispose of the body. The decomp in the car tells us that for about 2 days KC didn't know what the heck to do, or was too busy to be bothered with disposing of her daughter's body.

Likewise, as has been pointed out, the car would not have been abandonned in a parking lot if GA and CA were involved. Abandonning a car to be towed at a huge expense has immature, irresponsible KC written all over it.

KC's "prints" are all over this crime.

ETA -- Here's what I think CA did wrong:

Trusting KC for 30 days with Caylee!

CA should have called the cops after one WEEK gone!

What did CA think? That her daughter, who was always broke, actually had the money to pay a nanny?

Being gullible. That's CA's crime.

 

[Oakley]

IMO, there would have been no decomp in the car if the parents knew about the death and helped KC dispose of the body. The decomp in the car tells us that for about 2 days KC didn't know what the heck to do, or was too busy to be bothered with disposing of her daughter's body.

Likewise, as has been pointed out, the car would not have been abandonned in a parking lot if GA and CA were involved. Abandonning a car to be towed at a huge expense has immature, irresponsible KC written all over it.

KC's "prints" are all over this crime.

Someone scrubbed the car clean before LE took it. Cindy told her co-workers it was "messy" yet one of the TH on NG said the trunk in particular had been cleaned by an intelligent person with LE background. I don't know much about decomp but from what I understand in this case, the fluids had seeped under the carpet and were pretty well embedded in the trunk.

 

[elementary]

Watching the jailhouse videos, I just come to the conclusion that Casey is trying to manipulate her parents, and they are scared to confront her. This points to a dysfunctional family, but I don't see how it implicates GA or CA in a "cover up."

When I heard KC say, "We've always stuck together and we need to stick together on this," it's just her manipulative gobblety gook. The implication is: "It's US against everybody else" and KC is trying to convince her parents of her complete innocence, and victim status.

And, I don't think they're convinced of her innocence, at least from the way they're acting in the videos. GA doesn't look KC in the eyes, and seems to patronize her by rotely agreeing with her. CA is a basketcase, and when she asks pointed questions, KC freaks out. This is how KC is able to manipulate her parents, and no doubt how she's manipulated them in the past: she rages. And then they back off.

My brother was addicted to drugs while in high school, and I saw how he behaved in a similar way to KC with her parents. (Fortunately, he got help in rehab, and he's doing great now). But before that, anytime my parents confronted him about his actions or behavior or whether he was doing drugs, he turned the conversation around and attacked them, or tried to make them believe he was the victim of a conspiracy by the police, or his teachers, or "the system." He was completely dishonest and manipulative, and I recognize the pattern. I don't know if KC has been a drug addict or not, but I see in her behavior what I remember with my brother. And for so many years, my parents were in denial. So that rings true, too, when I see GA and CA defending KC.

It's cruel ... My heart actually feels so sorry for the Anthony family.

(Sorry to be longwinded on my first post! I've been reading all the wonderful posts here for a couple of months.)

I so totally agree with your remarks on manipulation! Very astute! Psychopaths are like hypnotists- directing the conversation, directing the attitudes of everyone. Very subtly. They can size up the situation in a moment, which is what the perp did.

Everything she did was to control the conversation and to direct it away from anything remotely useful or controversial. She could see her parents' expressions, see their suspicions, see them weakening. She played the family card, the victim card when she saw them drifting a little away from the script she wanted for them, and finally the rage card to snap them back in line. And they followed like sheep.

George at one point mentions how the perp is running the show inside as she did when she was outside, that she's the boss. I found this very telling. She quickly agrees with him, as if it's a given! And then redirects him to her frustration that she has lost that control. It's all smoke and mirrors. She continues to be in control even when she is out of control.

One of my abnormal psych profs stated that drug addicts tended to exhibit psychopathic traits. So this fits in very well with your observations of your brother. I am glad he is doing so well, btw- very courageous.

This entire visit struck me as bizarre. They don't talk like normal people, like normal families do. They assess and reassess and dissect their relationship as if trying to convince each other of its strength, thanks to the perp. In effect, it's an exercise in "bonding". The truth is irrelevant. The perp also plays one off against another, and they don't even see it. She's got them eating out of her hand, like the skilled manipulator she is.

I do, however, believe that they covered up a lot but that's another post.

 

[Zingo]

Someone scrubbed the car clean before LE took it. Cindy told her co-workers it was "messy" yet one of the TH on NG said the trunk in particular had been cleaned by an intelligent person with LE background. I don't know much about decomp but from what I understand in this case, the fluids had seeped under the carpet and were pretty well embedded in the trunk.

Right, and that would definitely suggest obstruction of justice, except that they scrubbed the car before they even knew Caylee was missing! If I got my car back and it stunk, I would attempt to clean it as well. IIRC, they didn't KNOW Caylee was missing until 7/15 when CA confronted KC and demanded to see Caylee. That was several weeks after they got the car back. Up until that point, they were buying her BS about the nanny.

So, when CA confronts KC about the car, and the stolen money, she still isn't focusing on Caylee yet. She's still somewhat believes the nanny BS. When KC finally admits Caylee is gone, and she hasn't seen her for a month, CA FREAKS and calls 911. And the horror in her voice is just not something you can fake.

CA's crime is gullibility.