Casey's fantasies about Cindy giving her the house are really important

[yosande]

where is this piece of info from?

iirc, jg

 

[Hisimage]

IMO Casey had no respect for her parents.. none. I don't mean just because she ripped them off. I don't mean just because she lied about having a job for years or because she used them as a babysitter even when she did not have a job. I don't even mean because she didn't tell them she was pregnant (from what some have said) until she had no other choice to. (some of us shudder to think of what may have happened if nobody found out) I am including in the above the way KC spoke to them.

Just listen and read. It was not words of only anger. It was with words of disgust, hate and self focus. On the phone call while she was in jail she all but blames her mother for where she is. When GA is talking in his interview of the gas cans he even admits she uses some pretty bad words.... to her father. The man who has been footin the bill for Caylee and KC for a very long time. She speaks this way to the parents that she has lied to and manipulated .. she used them, and she speaks in a way that you wouldn't even speak to your worst enemy. She speaks as if SHE is shocked that they are not kissing rear.
I am not sure, but I can guess if the parents have had to deal with her in a manner rooted from "guilt" that she inflicted or guilt because they knew somewhere along the lines that they should have put their foot down. Either way, if they throw her under the bus or if they stand beside her through this whole thing it does not matter. In her eyes they will have never done enough.

Do I believe she had a plan for the As home? yes I do, and I think somewhere along the line it got messed up.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

There is another possibliltiy about the house.

It is common for a lot of people getting up in years to transfer the title of their home over into one of their children's name. That way in case a major medical event happens they can go on Medicaid because they have no assets. Know of several people who have done this. Normally the parents go on living there as if nothing as changed.

Wonder if this was ever discussed with the Anthony's. What if they C and G were talking of doing. But in Casey's mind once the house was in her name she was going to kick them to the curb and she could have legally done this.

I say this because there is no quarentee the house would go to Casey's in the event of their dead until there was a will to that effect. I would have thought in the case of dead the house would go to both Casey and Lee. Of course I guess Casey could do away with Lee too. Scarey thought!!!

Question here. I believe the Anthony's had declared bankruptcy somewhere around May possibly due to Caseys theivery. They don't have any equity in their house but they were allowed to keep it. Does this influence the situation in any way. And is there a will leaving money or the house to Casey? Because why would the house go to her otherwise? Besides Casey can't afford to live on her own.

Casey's life of crime was abaout to escalate. i do believe so. For some reason getting a real job was an insurmountable obstacle for her.

I think Casey used the house to entice Amy and to get into her good graces after draining her account. Perhaps that way she could expect a favor from Amy such as living rent free in her apt when she got one.

What was she going to do next? Mooch off of Tony? Continue to tell Amy she was sleep walking? Or steal some more money from her mother and go out to Calif to her boyfriend out there and convince him he was the father of her child and steal from him?

 

[txsvicki]

If Casey is truly a psychopath then George and Cindy weren't of much further use to Casey. They had caught her stealing, lying, and are said to have been planning on getting custody of Caylee. Many mortgages have insurance available that will pay off the mortgage if the homeowner dies and I'll bet George and Cindy would have some life insurance.

 

[kiki the parrot]

HisImage: IMO Casey had no respect for her parents.. none. I don't mean just because she ripped them off. I don't mean just because she lied about having a job for years or because she used them as a babysitter even when she did not have a job. I don't even mean because she didn't tell them she was pregnant (from what some have said) until she had no other choice to. (some of us shudder to think of what may have happened if nobody found out) I am including in the above the way KC spoke to them. Just listen and read. It was not words of only anger. It was with words of disgust, hate and self focus. On the phone call while she was in jail she all but blames her mother for where she is. When GA is talking in his interview of the gas cans he even admits she uses some pretty bad words.... to her father. The man who has been footin the bill for Caylee and KC for a very long time. She speaks this way to the parents that she has lied to and manipulated .. she used them, and she speaks in a way that you wouldn't even speak to your worst enemy. She speaks as if SHE is shocked that they are not kissing rear. I am not sure, but I can guess if the parents have had to deal with her in a manner rooted from "guilt" that she inflicted or guilt because they knew somewhere along the lines that they should have put their foot down. Either way, if they throw her under the bus or if they stand beside her through this whole thing it does not matter. In her eyes they will have never done enough.

I don't think it's unusual at all for people who manipulate, deceive and abuse to actually loathe and have contempt for their victims. They view them as stupid, and in a strange way as being at FAULT for letting them get away with their actions. I think she was probably begging all her LIFE for some limits and consequences--and so while we cringe that she has the NERVE to scapegoat everyone else (her parents, LE, friends etc) for not stopping her, it's not hard to see who taught her this blamegame. According to interview w LA I think it was, she even SAYS, "If somebody had stopped me a long time ago..." This might have been interpreted by some at the time as simply reference to stealing, but her need for help goes FAR beyond simply stealing.

 

[Valhall]

I've spent some time reviewing the text messages from AH's phone and have come up with a theory concerning the whole "Cindy is going to give KC the house". If this has already been proposed, pardon my lateness (I'm usually about 3 months behind all you folks anyway!)

First off, here's the file to look at on the messages:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20317602/detail.html

Around May 20th KC starts talking to AH about a house that she alleges she is visiting with the homeowner about them either renting or buying - can't tell which. In the text messages she claims to have spoken with this woman (the landlord) repeatedly and went by and looked at the house 4 times. On May 20th she tells AH that she has spoken to the homeowner and set up a time where both her and AH can go see the house together between noon and 5 pm on the 21st.

On the 21st, KC "fakes having the flu" and texts AH telling her to go see the house without her because she's headed to the doctor. This is most likely because there's no way in hell she could even get approved for a lease, let alone buying house (if that was the intent).

An interesting side note is that on the 23rd KC claims she gave her flu to Caylee and was headed back to the doctor. She alludes to "lots of kids" in the waiting room and that she's going to be there for a while...which leads one to believe she's at a pediatrician's office. During this testing session she states "This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..." Which probably is the only part of her texts that is true and would explain the absence of medical records we have heard about on Caylee.

Back to the "house fantasy"...later in the day on May 23rd KC tells AH "Trust me. Im serious. Ive been to this house 4 times already. Im pretty set. I asked the homeowner to wait til the end of the month so i can get everythis warranted." While the end of the text doesn't make much sense, the beginning leads one to believe that the whole "Caylee is sick and we're at the doctor's office" texts were because KC and AH were again supposed to meet up on the house deal and KC needed to have an excuse for a no show. Most likely AH was pushing her on her now missing two appts for the house.

Okay, so at this point we have KC pushing the commitment for the house to the end of May. So she is going to have to come up with something new to get out of this before that time. And voila! She produces on May 27th - the first text that appears to be connected with the whole "My mom is going to sell me her house!" story...

"I have the biggest news...and i mean huge! Ill call you when i get done this afternoon. Wow.. seriously amazingly awesome news! Hope the added suspense helps:-D"

Why do I think this "big news" is the Cindy house story? Because right after this we start getting texts to AH like this one...

May 28 - "Thats perfect. If anything once we move my stuff into my parents room we can use my room for storage and the garage too. There will be plenty of room"

I know there has been speculation that there may have really been some discussion between Cindy and KC about her getting the house, but I don't think these text messages prove that out. KC HAD to come up with a new story in order to get herself out of the impossible situation where she either was applying for a lease, or a mortgage. With no job...that would have been where she was "outed" to AH. KC made the whole "cindy house story" up to keep AH from finding out what a tremendous loser she was.

 

[sarah7855]

I've spent some time reviewing the text messages from AH's phone and have come up with a theory concerning the whole "Cindy is going to give KC the house". If this has already been proposed, pardon my lateness (I'm usually about 3 months behind all you folks anyway!)

First off, here's the file to look at on the messages:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20317602/detail.html

Around May 20th KC starts talking to AH about a house that she alleges she is visiting with the homeowner about them either renting or buying - can't tell which. In the text messages she claims to have spoken with this women (the landlord) repeatedly and went by and looked at the house 4 times. On May 20th she tells AH that she has spoken to the homeowner and set up a time where both her and AH can go see the house together between noon and 5 pm on the 21st.

On the 21st, KC "fakes having the flu" and texts AH telling her to go see the house without her because she's headed to the doctor. This is most likely because there's no way in hell she could even get approved for a lease, let alone buying house (if that was the intent).

An interesting side note is that on the 23rd KC claims she gave her flu to Caylee and was headed back to the doctor. She alludes to "lots of kids" in the waiting room and that she's going to be there for a while...which leads one to believe she's at a pediatrician's office. During this testing session she states "This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..." Which probably is the only part of her texts that is true and would explain the absence of medical records we have heard about on Caylee.

Back to the "house fantasy"...later in the day on May 23rd KC tells AH "Trust me. Im serious. Ive been to this house 4 times already. Im pretty set. I asked the homeowner to wait til the end of the month so i can get everythis warranted." While the end of the text doesn't make much sense, the beginning leads one to believe that the whole "Caylee is sick and we're at the doctor's office" texts were because KC and AH were again supposed to meet up on the house deal and KC needed to have an excuse for a no show. Most likely AH was pushing her on her now missing to appts for the house.

Okay, so at this point we have KC pushing the commitment for the house to the end of May. So she is going to have to come up with something new to get out of this before that time. And voila! She produces on May 27th - the first text that appears to be connected with the whole "My mom is going to sell me her house!" story...

"I have the biggest news...and i mean huge! Ill call you when i get done this afternoon. Wow.. seriously amazingly awesome news! Hope the added suspense helps:-D"

Why do I think this "big news" is the Cindy house story? Because right after this we start getting texts to AH like this one...

May 28 - "Thats perfect. If anything once we move my stuff into my parents room we can use my room for storage and the garage too. There will be plenty of room"

I know there has been speculation that there may have really been some discussion between Cindy and KC about her getting the house, but I don't think these text messages prove that out. KC HAD to come up with a new story in order to get herself out of the impossible situation where she either was applying for a lease, or a mortgage. With no job...that would have been where she was "outed" to AH. KC made the whole "cindy house story" up to keep AH from finding out what a tremendous loser she was.

Perfect :clap: I also just want to say thank you for the way you word your posts; they are so clear, organized, well thought out, and easy to understand. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

The first thing I thought of when I read about Casey telling her friends she was going to "buy" her parents' house was that she was planning to do away with them.

This girl may have a heart more evil than ever we imagined.

I dunno. I'm SURE she fantasized about it.

But, GA and CA are not helpless, 30 pound, two year olds. Doing away with them would not have been easy, at all.

And, KC is a coward.

My guess is that is was more fantasy than planned reality.

 

[KALI]

to get out of MY house.

I dunno. Personally, I do think that she could have been planning on getting rid of dear old Mum & Dad.

 

[AZlawyer]

I've spent some time reviewing the text messages from AH's phone and have come up with a theory concerning the whole "Cindy is going to give KC the house". If this has already been proposed, pardon my lateness (I'm usually about 3 months behind all you folks anyway!)

First off, here's the file to look at on the messages:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20317602/detail.html

Around May 20th KC starts talking to AH about a house that she alleges she is visiting with the homeowner about them either renting or buying - can't tell which. In the text messages she claims to have spoken with this woman (the landlord) repeatedly and went by and looked at the house 4 times. On May 20th she tells AH that she has spoken to the homeowner and set up a time where both her and AH can go see the house together between noon and 5 pm on the 21st.

On the 21st, KC "fakes having the flu" and texts AH telling her to go see the house without her because she's headed to the doctor. This is most likely because there's no way in hell she could even get approved for a lease, let alone buying house (if that was the intent).

An interesting side note is that on the 23rd KC claims she gave her flu to Caylee and was headed back to the doctor. She alludes to "lots of kids" in the waiting room and that she's going to be there for a while...which leads one to believe she's at a pediatrician's office. During this testing session she states "This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..." Which probably is the only part of her texts that is true and would explain the absence of medical records we have heard about on Caylee.

Back to the "house fantasy"...later in the day on May 23rd KC tells AH "Trust me. Im serious. Ive been to this house 4 times already. Im pretty set. I asked the homeowner to wait til the end of the month so i can get everythis warranted." While the end of the text doesn't make much sense, the beginning leads one to believe that the whole "Caylee is sick and we're at the doctor's office" texts were because KC and AH were again supposed to meet up on the house deal and KC needed to have an excuse for a no show. Most likely AH was pushing her on her now missing two appts for the house.

Okay, so at this point we have KC pushing the commitment for the house to the end of May. So she is going to have to come up with something new to get out of this before that time. And voila! She produces on May 27th - the first text that appears to be connected with the whole "My mom is going to sell me her house!" story...

"I have the biggest news...and i mean huge! Ill call you when i get done this afternoon. Wow.. seriously amazingly awesome news! Hope the added suspense helps:-D"

Why do I think this "big news" is the Cindy house story? Because right after this we start getting texts to AH like this one...

May 28 - "Thats perfect. If anything once we move my stuff into my parents room we can use my room for storage and the garage too. There will be plenty of room"

I know there has been speculation that there may have really been some discussion between Cindy and KC about her getting the house, but I don't think these text messages prove that out. KC HAD to come up with a new story in order to get herself out of the impossible situation where she either was applying for a lease, or a mortgage. With no job...that would have been where she was "outed" to AH. KC made the whole "cindy house story" up to keep AH from finding out what a tremendous loser she was.

Great summary--thanks! My notes say there are also texts to TonE the week before Caylee was "kidnapped" indicating that CA and GA would be moving out of the house Friday (June 13), so TonE could then come over at night. But right AFTER Caylee is gone she is suggesting to Amy and Troy that she is still getting the A. house, but suggesting to others (Chris, Alex) that she is buying another house.

I keep thinking this "I'm getting the house" story is more important than we've realized.

 

[AZlawyer]

Oh, and I believe one of Grandma Shirley's emails to her sister said something like, "Even if Cindy moves out and gets an apartment..." so I have no doubt that Cindy said something to KC that started this whole fantasy--or to Grandma on the phone and KC overheard.

 

[april_showers]

I've spent some time reviewing the text messages from AH's phone and have come up with a theory concerning the whole "Cindy is going to give KC the house". If this has already been proposed, pardon my lateness (I'm usually about 3 months behind all you folks anyway!)

First off, here's the file to look at on the messages:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20317602/detail.html

Around May 20th KC starts talking to AH about a house that she alleges she is visiting with the homeowner about them either renting or buying - can't tell which. In the text messages she claims to have spoken with this woman (the landlord) repeatedly and went by and looked at the house 4 times. On May 20th she tells AH that she has spoken to the homeowner and set up a time where both her and AH can go see the house together between noon and 5 pm on the 21st.

On the 21st, KC "fakes having the flu" and texts AH telling her to go see the house without her because she's headed to the doctor. This is most likely because there's no way in hell she could even get approved for a lease, let alone buying house (if that was the intent).

An interesting side note is that on the 23rd KC claims she gave her flu to Caylee and was headed back to the doctor. She alludes to "lots of kids" in the waiting room and that she's going to be there for a while...which leads one to believe she's at a pediatrician's office. During this testing session she states "This is the first time she has ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..." Which probably is the only part of her texts that is true and would explain the absence of medical records we have heard about on Caylee.

Back to the "house fantasy"...later in the day on May 23rd KC tells AH "Trust me. Im serious. Ive been to this house 4 times already. Im pretty set. I asked the homeowner to wait til the end of the month so i can get everythis warranted." While the end of the text doesn't make much sense, the beginning leads one to believe that the whole "Caylee is sick and we're at the doctor's office" texts were because KC and AH were again supposed to meet up on the house deal and KC needed to have an excuse for a no show. Most likely AH was pushing her on her now missing two appts for the house.

Okay, so at this point we have KC pushing the commitment for the house to the end of May. So she is going to have to come up with something new to get out of this before that time. And voila! She produces on May 27th - the first text that appears to be connected with the whole "My mom is going to sell me her house!" story...

"I have the biggest news...and i mean huge! Ill call you when i get done this afternoon. Wow.. seriously amazingly awesome news! Hope the added suspense helps:-D"

Why do I think this "big news" is the Cindy house story? Because right after this we start getting texts to AH like this one...

May 28 - "Thats perfect. If anything once we move my stuff into my parents room we can use my room for storage and the garage too. There will be plenty of room"

I know there has been speculation that there may have really been some discussion between Cindy and KC about her getting the house, but I don't think these text messages prove that out. KC HAD to come up with a new story in order to get herself out of the impossible situation where she either was applying for a lease, or a mortgage. With no job...that would have been where she was "outed" to AH. KC made the whole "cindy house story" up to keep AH from finding out what a tremendous loser she was.

Great summation!

Personally, I've always maintained that the origin of the "parent's house" story was a direct result of Amy being on her case about the "other" house. I doubt, however, that there actually really was another house. The reason, I think, that Amy was able to catch on (and actually begin to confront) this lie was because of how ridculously vague/avoidant KC was being... when she usually seems to give way too many details about everything. If you're in your early 20's, and an avid computer/cell phone user, you don't have too many outs for not sharing any info about the potential house you've found aside from the fact that it's "awesome," or whatever. KC could have emailed Amy a real estate posting, the craigslist ad, the address so she could at least check it out google maps, etc etc etc etc. The longer Amy was denied ANY information (how many "oh, sweetie I'm rainchecking, but we'll do it tomorrow, I promise" messages can one person handle?), the more confrontative I think she became.

I'm not sure why Casey strung Amy along like that. Was it pure fantasy? It's definitely sad that something so simple as renting a place w/ one of your friends was this intangible fantasy that Casey would never be able to achieve. But did Casey want that unattainable 'best friend house' SO bad that she did the next best thing for herself: create and actively engage in the fantasy, even though this house never really existed? Or was she doing it to bilk a desperate-to-find-a-home Amy out of even more money in the form of security deposits, first month's rent, etc ("OMG. we need to come up with $500 today or we don't get the house!!"). The point being that in order to continue the story, and in light of Amy's increasing skepticism, she was going to have to produce a house. And where else could Casey produce an address, give a tour, etc... aside from the one place we're all familiar with on Hopespring drive.

 

[affinity]

KC didn't graduate with her class..that is SO STRANGE. It set her up so that she would have less opportunities than others. I guess she went to summer school or whatever she needed to do to complete high school...but her problems definitely began in HS. She is a very unremarkable person of certainly average intelligence...so hs shouldn't have been difficult for her. At the heart of everything is that she couldn't stand on her own two feet. She had some sort of mental issues that prevented her from being independent. I do wish we knew what they were--! I know most think the answer is simple enough--that she was lazy, that she considered herself a "princess" (and therefore wouldn't work an ordinary job)--but the answer is more major than that..it goes deeper. She wanted to be grown up and get out from under her parent's thumbs but she did not have the wherewithall to actually do it. Why? Can't ever know, I guess--unless she were to tell us and if she were to tell us maybe it would be like this:

"I want people to love love love me and they never have--I am aware I have only been some sort of odd complimentary extension of my manish mother who was at times proud of me, but mostly angry with me...maybe because I am prettier than her? Being pretty-ish and having a really good body is all I have ever had to offer but that makes me like an object. My Father doesn't ever help me--he is always mad too. When Caylee came along they treated her nicer than they ever treated me. I'm mad!...Let's pretend I am a normal person who is capable of working and paying bills!"

 

[Valhall]

Great summation!

Personally, I've always maintained that the origin of the "parent's house" story was a direct result of Amy being on her case about the "other" house. I doubt, however, that there actually really was another house. The reason, I think, that Amy was able to catch on (and actually begin to confront) this lie was because of how ridculously vague/avoidant KC was being... when she usually seems to give way too many details about everything. If you're in your early 20's, and an avid computer/cell phone user, you don't have too many outs for not sharing any info about the potential house you've found aside from the fact that it's "awesome," or whatever. KC could have emailed Amy a real estate posting, the craigslist ad, the address so she could at least check it out google maps, etc etc etc etc. The longer Amy was denied ANY information (how many "oh, sweetie I'm rainchecking, but we'll do it tomorrow, I promise" messages can one person handle?), the more confrontative I think she became.

I'm not sure why Casey strung Amy along like that. Was it pure fantasy?

*snipped to point of interest*

There WAS a house. Amy went and looked at it. The problem was KC bailed on her at least once, possibly twice when they were supposed to BOTH be there. KC wasn't going to show up at the same time as AH because then they would be in a position to "do the paperwork" for the lease or mortgage or whatever it was. But there WAS a house.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

*snipped to point of interest*

There WAS a house. Amy went and looked at it. The problem was KC bailed on her at least once, possibly twice when they were supposed to BOTH be there. KC wasn't going to show up at the same time as AH because then they would be in a position to "do the paperwork" for the lease or mortgage or whatever it was. But there WAS a house.

Has anybody run across any comments from AH about the house? Did she say to the owner "my friend, Casey, has been here two or three times but couldn't come today." What was the owner's reaction, etc. I would think Amy may have detected something was off at that point - ya know? I have not seen comments by AH about any house. Has anyone?

 

[april_showers]

*snipped to point of interest*

There WAS a house. Amy went and looked at it. The problem was KC bailed on her at least once, possibly twice when they were supposed to BOTH be there. KC wasn't going to show up at the same time as AH because then they would be in a position to "do the paperwork" for the lease or mortgage or whatever it was. But there WAS a house.

I’d always garnered, from Amy’s statement to police that she never actually saw a house.

“EE: Can you tell me about the house issue where you were supposed to rent the house with her?

AH: Um, she originally when I found out that my house was going to be sold uhm, told me that she was looking, oh, she was pretty much about to buy a place and that you know, I could move in with them. That you know, I was supposed to go see the house with them a few times. It fell through. All of a sudden, great news, my mom is uhm, going to be signing the house over to me…”

Amy’s statement says that Casey told her the reason the original house didn’t work out was because someone else put an offer on it. I don’t ever get the sense from her statement that she ever actually saw the house. I do get the sense that she sees this as an important piece of the puzzle when realizing the extent of Casey’s lies.

Obviously, I’m missing some further evidence on this one. Would you kindly point me towards that? I hate feeling out of the loop! :bang:

 

[AZlawyer]

*snipped to point of interest*

There WAS a house. Amy went and looked at it. The problem was KC bailed on her at least once, possibly twice when they were supposed to BOTH be there. KC wasn't going to show up at the same time as AH because then they would be in a position to "do the paperwork" for the lease or mortgage or whatever it was. But there WAS a house.

Are you sure, Val?? I haven't seen anything about Amy going to look at the house. The texts show that Casey said she'd been there a couple of times.

 

[Gma Kat]

Great post Valhall, and I LOVE your signature!!!!! TTTTOOOO funny!
My thoughts on the house were that KC either 1) Planned to murder CA/GA and CAylee and would therefore get the house; or 2) GA and CA were splitting up yet again and KC would be renting the house possibly from them until it sold.

I think it was Brini who posted a great explanation about how narcisists manipulate people and this house situation with AH is the perfect example. Promissing AH a place to stay puts KC in the power position in their relationship, which was very new. It kinda made AH beholding to KC if she (KC) was going to let her move into "her" house.

(If I'm giving credit to the wrong person, sorry, Brini just always has great psych insight!)

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think Cindy really may have told Casey she could have the house. Cindy had discussed it with Lee, about him possibly buying it... he told LE that!

I don't doubt for a second that this could have been a typical personality disordered controlling, manipulative game Cindy used to keep Casey (Caylee) around and at home. I think finding out it was a lie, a game, could very well be what set Casey off. I suspect Cindy played games like this with Casey quite a bit.

 

[Valhall]

Are you sure, Val?? I haven't seen anything about Amy going to look at the house. The texts show that Casey said she'd been there a couple of times.

Look at the texts incoming on AH's cell phone for May 21st. KC tells her to go one without her because she has the flu and is going to the doctor. Then look at the texts on May 22nd (incoming AH cell phone). KC says something to the effect "I've been so busy I forgot to ask you how the house visit went." Then there is also a text message where apparently AH is telling her something about the house (some feature) and KC responds "yeah, I remember that about the house".