Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[Mrs G Norris]

I think TOD will be crucial, particularly in regards to charges against Adam.

At this stage EB's pings at different dump sites on the 25th seem to be the strongest evidence we have that Zahra was killed before that date and likely on the 24th as EB stated. This will need to be verified by LE before trial, I am assuming narrowing down the time will not be impossible since some of the remains were buried, and if this part was the torso as suggested it will likely be the best piece of evidence they have to use.

I think they'll be able to determine when she died with room for margin which will be well before the time she was reported missing. Which will expose Adam once and for all, and allow them to return him to jail where he belongs.

 

[tlcya]

Certain parts of the body decompose faster than others and weather can speed up or delay that process. Organs, like the brain and heart deteriorate faster than connective tissues, for example.

A body dumped in late fall might become partially skeletal due to bacterial and insect infestation as well as animals, if in a wooded area.

snipped from a forensic case overview of Morgan Harrington case

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...ime_of_death_of_morgan_harrington.html?cat=49

 

[tlcya]

Other techniques such as scanning electron microscopy can provide information regarding the extent of decomposition, which helps determine approximate time of death or the nature of the environmental affects on the bones. Scanning electron microscopes magnify images using electrons to create three-dimensional images. Bone samples can also be sent to other forensics experts for biochemical or trace element analysis, as well as for DNA analysis

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/skeletal-analysis

 

[tlcya]

I am hoping they can figure time of death. I do not know much about this end of things, but like you Mrs G Norris, I think in this case TOD is going to be huge. Alot will hinge upon it.

I am thinking of the Caylee case, I may be able to pull some really good forensics stuff from over there.

 

[ynotdivein]

tl, good thinking opening this thread. I suspect that the forensic botany aspect may play an important role in this case, as it is in Caylee's case. The area where Zahra's remains were buried was carefully excavated, and though I don't have the photo handy, after LE finished with the site, there was a narrow central hole dug out to a depth that looked like 3' to my eyes, and then an approximately 10-foot square area dug out to a shallower depth all around that central excavation. I suspect that the 10' square area may have been removed in such a way as to preserve root growth and compare with the central burial hole which would have been so recently disturbed.

Also, after about one month, the accumulation of leaf litter and other debris and the initial growth of plants around the limbs and prosthetic that were dispersed without being buried would be quite telling to a trained eye.

In Caylee's case we seem to be finding that, while botany is among the oldest human scientific pursuits, forensic botany is perhaps still an "emerging" field. However it has been accepted in courtrooms, it is a well-established field, and IMO it may help Zahra tell her story more accurately than either AB or EB ever would.

 

[Reannan]

tl, good thinking opening this thread. I suspect that the forensic botany aspect may play an important role in this case, as it is in Caylee's case. The area where Zahra's remains were buried was carefully excavated,.....

Snipped by me. I agree.

10/26/10: the prosthetic gel liner, or whatever they found off of Christie Road in Caldwell county was essentially "in some weeds", so the growth rate of the weeds and botanical evidence will be helpful.

11/3/10: A human bone was found in Caldwell County. (11/12/10 - announcement that DNA confirms it is Zahra's).

11/10/10: "Human remains" are found in the Dudley Shoals area of Caldwell County. These are buried, so the science of determining COD will be different than that for the prosthesis and the bone.

11/12/10: "Chief Adkins announces that investigators have recovered enough physical evidence to believe they've found Zahra."

I have always been bothered by the "enough physical evidence" statement. It is as if LE realizes they did not - and COULD not find all of Zahra's physical remains. I think additional evidence for TOD will be provided by the receipts of when the paint was purchased and when the bed was purchased. Does anyone remember when the bed was purchased?? TIA...

 

[tlcya]

we don't know exactly when the bed was purchased from the woman AF. I will have to check the cel phone warrant for RM (account holder of AF phone number) to see if LE listed a specific date. IIRC the woman (AF) could not recall the specific date EB purchased the mattress from her but the cel records gained in that warrant should give us the time if and when that info is finally released.

EB and AF comminucated via cel phone calls or texts re the mattress so I would assume, if this woman is not an associated of the Bakers, then when the communication stops, its because the mattress changed hands and there was no further need to communicate about it.

 

[tlcya]

http://www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/

Condition of bone depends on the type of burial or exposure along with temperature.

When a body is left on the surface, insect activity will begin immediately and within 2 weeks the body will be partially skeletalized, completely skeletalized within 8 months. If buried, it will take between 1 and 2 years to become completely skeletalized and in arid areas may become mummified.

 

[tlcya]

TOD estimates based on environmental factors are from research in Tennessee as follows:
3 weeks -- articulated bones
5 weeks -- some scatter, some articulated
4 months -- disarticulated, within 10' circle
7 to 8 months -- most bones w/in 10' circle and all w/in 20'
1 year -- small bones missing, complete disarticulation
2 to 4 years -- some bones broken, scatterd 40', some large bones missing
12+ years -- bone rot; partial burial*
15 to 20 years -- no surface evidence
* partial burial from leaves, storms, erosion from shallow burial

http://www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/

ETA Haven't found this sort of research that is NC specific as yet. Sorry TN will have to do in the interim

 

[Makara]

I'm wondering (and sincerely hoping) that the blood and tissue splatter found on the bedroom wall may determine time of death.


Blood Splatter
•One aspect of crime scene investigation is the study of blood splatter. Forensic scientists who specialize in blood splatter are able to examine and investigate blood found at a crime scene. From the way the blood is found, whether on the floor in drips or on the wall in the form of a bloody hand print, these blood splatter examiners can determine a plethora of information about what happened at the scene. These findings are integral to recreating the crime scene.

For example, drips or droplets of blood are considered "passive" blood splatter evidence. From these drops, the blood splatter investigator can determine the size, shape and severity of a wound from the way the blood fell. Other forms of blood evidence, such as streaks of blood, are considered "active" blood splatter evidence. From this evidence, investigators can determine what type of struggle ensued (if any) and whether the blood was the result of the person being attacked or defending herself.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5375996_different-fields-forensic-science.html

 

[Allusonz]

as well there was some that was buried, there are body farms that can provide alot of information with respect to many aspects of cases and i believe that they will need to access every type of identification/tod tool they can in this case MOO

 

[ynotdivein]

In this case, it seems that we will have remains buried and remains discreted above-ground, both at the same/proximately the same time... a good forensic botanist will shed a great deal of light on all this IMO.

AB is not looking so innocent to Ynot's eyes these days. TOD supposedly two weeks before you were waffling about for a "last seen on" date, AB?

(ETA: Reannan, "enough physical evidence" ties right in with the warrants that say AB dismembered Zahra's limbs... and EB took them to only two places where Zahra was recovered. I don't think LE has recovered all of our sweet child as yet. IMO.)

 

[Kat]

TL alert on your thread and ask a mod to put a Warning graphic label on your thread. That way people are warned before they click open. Just a suggestion, and made with caring and kindness.


I am wondering if the remains that they found that were the last remains reported (trying to remember where exactly but I can picture the reports in my mind) was her skull. If so, and it was shallowly buried, and had been wrapped first---that could be absolutely essential in determining her TOD. Just my opinion.

Great thread TL, and you've brought a lot of fantastic links. Good job!

 

[tlcya]

ty Kat, good suggestion and I have done so.

 

[tlcya]

I think the most evidence will be gleaned from the remains located at Dudley Shoals. All reports seemed to indicated those remains were buried in a shallow grave and EB has indicated in LE interviews that plastic garbage bags were used in at least some of the disposal.

The burying and the bag(s), if used will surely have kept those remains in a lesser state of decomp than the bone located off Christy Road.

As to the dirt and soil that was removed from the hole at Dudley, as decomp ocurs the body's fats tend to liquify as a normal part of decomp. I am betting that some of those fats leaked from the bag into the earth around it.

This could explain why the Crhisty Rd bone was referred to as a bone and the Dudley Shoals remains were referred to as "remains".

 

[Texas Mist]

ty Kat, good suggestion and I have done so.

I edited the OP since I couldn't add to the thread title...hope that's OK.

 

[panthera]

I edited the OP since I couldn't add to the thread title...hope that's OK.

I added the "Warning" however had to remove part of the thread title in order to do so.

If it isn't OK with the OP, please advise!

 

[tlcya]

ty supermods I have no issue with the OP or title being altered in whatever way needed.

 

[Kamille]

I think the most evidence will be gleaned from the remains located at Dudley Shoals. All reports seemed to indicated those remains were buried in a shallow grave and EB has indicated in LE interviews that plastic garbage bags were used in at least some of the disposal.

The burying and the bag(s), if used will surely have kept those remains in a lesser state of decomp than the bone located off Christy Road.

As to the dirt and soil that was removed from the hole at Dudley, as decomp ocurs the body's fats tend to liquify as a normal part of decomp. I am betting that some of those fats leaked from the bag into the earth around it.

This could explain why the Crhisty Rd bone was referred to as a bone and the Dudley Shoals remains were referred to as "remains".

The bone found at Christy Rd could very easily have been in a bag too and it was opened and scattered by animals. This might explain why the gel liner was found close to the road but the bone was found further in after a grid search. An animal would likely have discarded the gel liner right away and then taken the bone further in to the woods away from the road. Even if more than one bag were disposed of in that location, is it not possible for animals to have dragged another bag even further away?

MOO

 

[Jacie Estes]

WARNING-GRAPHIC/I've used this info for Archaeology class:

http://www.reference.com/browse/Decomposition