Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[bellyup]

The new mattress still had the plastic on it. They never bothered taking the plastic off the new mattress.

While I think that could be POSSIBLE ... I think it's more likely that LE wrapped it in plastic to protect any possible evidence on it.

ETA: I also do not think it was a *NEW* mattress (as in brand new purchased from a store). The lack of any statements from a mattress store clerk / owner / etc. compiled with the fact that they are broke leads me to believe the mattress was second hand. Likely gotten from friends or family.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

While I think that could be POSSIBLE ... I think it's more likely that LE wrapped it in plastic to protect any possible evidence on it.

ETA: I also do not think it was a *NEW* mattress (as in brand new purchased from a store). The lack of any statements from a mattress store clerk / owner / etc. compiled with the fact that they are broke leads me to believe the mattress was second hand. Likely gotten from friends or family.

Well, "broke" never stopped them from shopping at Lowes, Food lion, Walmart, and every other place they wrote bad checks.

Just sayin'.

 

[docwho3]

I saw a question or so in posts as to whether investigators did the drywall removal.
(At least I think that's what was being asked about.) I did a quicky websearch and
provide these links I found. I hope they help.

'. . . About 10 minutes later, the SBI and Hickory police investigators
emerged, clutching a section of drywall from the room about 4 feet across, splotched
pink on one side and gray on the other. They also brought out other evidence,
concealed in brown paper bags larger than their torsos. . .'
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...-return-baker-house-seize-evidence-ar-502595/

http://wbtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13453571_BG6.jpg

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=13453571

'. . . Investigators have ripped out parts of the floor, walls, ceiling, and
plumbing during their search for evidence in the house. . .'
http://www.wtoc.com/Global/story.asp?S=13297637

 

[tlcya]

this is sort of OT for this thread but I want to address it quickly. Sorry

All those bounced checks were something else. I notice several times a day at various groceries and convenience stores. I think they were writing the rubber for cash all over town. MOO

They were rubber writin folks alright but I doubt they would bother using more rubber to get a mattress for a girl they knew wasn't going to be sleeping on it.

I believe Wiseoldowl hit the nail on the head. LE took the mattress to try to determine if there is any evidence Z ever slept upon it. Helping to narrow their possible timeline and NOT because it leads them to any COD.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

And tl FWIW I do believe that new mattress was a hand me down from some family member. That could be easily proven as well with the DNA of the "family member" that had slept on it previously. KWIM?

 

[Dr. Know?]

this is sort of OT for this thread but I want to address it quickly. Sorry

All those bounced checks were something else. I notice several times a day at various groceries and convenience stores. I think they were writing the rubber for cash all over town. MOO

They were rubber writin folks alright but I doubt they would bother using more rubber to get a mattress for a girl they knew wasn't going to be sleeping on it.

I believe Wiseoldowl hit the nail on the head. LE took the mattress to try to determine if there is any evidence Z ever slept upon it. Helping to narrow their possible timeline and NOT because it leads them to any COD.

The bad check charges have me wondering if maybe money they expected to deposit never arrived, or was reversed. Hmmmm....They wrote checks on an account that might have had the money expected or rec'd but it never arrived or was reversed due to something? Just wondering..hey it could just be they wrote bad checks to buy stuff.

 

[Dr. Know?]

this is sort of OT for this thread but I want to address it quickly. Sorry

All those bounced checks were something else. I notice several times a day at various groceries and convenience stores. I think they were writing the rubber for cash all over town. MOO

They were rubber writin folks alright but I doubt they would bother using more rubber to get a mattress for a girl they knew wasn't going to be sleeping on it.

I believe Wiseoldowl hit the nail on the head. LE took the mattress to try to determine if there is any evidence Z ever slept upon it. Helping to narrow their possible timeline and NOT because it leads them to any COD.

The bad check charges have me wondering if maybe money they expected to deposit never arrived, or was reversed. Hmmmm....They wrote checks on an account that might have had the money expected or rec'd but it never arrived or was reversed due to something? Just wondering..hey it could just be they wrote bad checks to buy stuff. lol

 

[Clue Hopper]

The bad check charges have me wondering if maybe money they expected to deposit never arrived, or was reversed. Hmmmm....They wrote checks on an account that might have had the money expected or rec'd but it never arrived or was reversed due to something? Just wondering..hey it could just be they wrote bad checks to buy stuff. lol

I also wondered if it is a joint account do both parties get charged?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

And tl FWIW I do believe that new mattress was a hand me down from some family member. That could be easily proven as well with the DNA of the "family member" that had slept on it previously. KWIM?

That's certainly possible, Owl. We know that some sort of mattress info came to LE via a "source", and that's what started them down the mattress road in the first place, so I don't think it's a stretch to speculate that whoever gave EB the mattress mentioned this to LE.

JMO

 

[Clue Hopper]

I saw a question or so in posts as to whether investigators did the drywall removal.
(At least I think that's what was being asked about.) I did a quicky websearch and
provide these links I found. I hope they help.

'. . . About 10 minutes later, the SBI and Hickory police investigators
emerged, clutching a section of drywall from the room about 4 feet across, splotched
pink on one side and gray on the other. They also brought out other evidence,
concealed in brown paper bags larger than their torsos. . .'
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...-return-baker-house-seize-evidence-ar-502595/

http://wbtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13453571_BG6.jpg

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=13453571

'. . . Investigators have ripped out parts of the floor, walls, ceiling, and
plumbing during their search for evidence in the house. . .'
http://www.wtoc.com/Global/story.asp?S=13297637

I wonder with the blotched pink paint from the pictures. If it was some sort of test LE had ran, or if the paint had been scrubbed so hard it was coming off? If it had been painted recently it would come off rather easily IMO.

[/IMG]

 

[ynotdivein]

I wonder with the blotched pink paint from the pictures. If it was some sort of test LE had ran, or if the paint had been scrubbed so hard it was coming off? If it had been painted recently it would come off rather easily IMO.

[/IMG]

Clue, I've been wondering about the paint too. If you look to the R in the picture you posted, there appears to be a sticker of an angel or fairy stuck on the wall to that side (under the yellow stars). That sticker looks to me like it's on top of the "incomplete" paint job--the bottom R of the sticker is over pink and the top L is over white, if you see what I mean? So the paint was done that way on purpose and the sticker was applied afterwards?

Not putting anything past them, but that room COULD have been painted that way and left by last tenant; or painted by EB/AB when they moved in, in an attempt to make it seem "girly" for Zahra; or painted by Zahra herself, though I doubt her ability to do that; or painted by EB/AB after they moved in, although Zahra never moved in with them, in which case why did LE remove the sections of walls and floor for evidence...

We saw paint cans and rollers left behind by LE after their search of the house, but we also saw two paint brushes bagged and removed by LE during their search. Just not yet sure what to make of all this.

 

[Clue Hopper]

Clue, I've been wondering about the paint too. If you look to the R in the picture you posted, there appears to be a sticker of an angel or fairy stuck on the wall to that side (under the yellow stars). That sticker looks to me like it's on top of the "incomplete" paint job--the bottom R of the sticker is over pink and the top L is over white, if you see what I mean? So the paint was done that way on purpose and the sticker was applied afterwards?

Not putting anything past them, but that room COULD have been painted that way and left by last tenant; or painted by EB/AB when they moved in, in an attempt to make it seem "girly" for Zahra; or painted by Zahra herself, though I doubt her ability to do that; or painted by EB/AB after they moved in, although Zahra never moved in with them, in which case why did LE remove the sections of walls and floor for evidence...

We saw paint cans and rollers left behind by LE after their search of the house, but we also saw two paint brushes bagged and removed by LE during their search. Just not yet sure what to make of all this.

I didn't even think of that. The whole sponge paint thing. They could have tried to wipe it instead of blot it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Clue, I've been wondering about the paint too. If you look to the R in the picture you posted, there appears to be a sticker of an angel or fairy stuck on the wall to that side (under the yellow stars). That sticker looks to me like it's on top of the "incomplete" paint job--the bottom R of the sticker is over pink and the top L is over white, if you see what I mean? So the paint was done that way on purpose and the sticker was applied afterwards?

Not putting anything past them, but that room COULD have been painted that way and left by last tenant; or painted by EB/AB when they moved in, in an attempt to make it seem "girly" for Zahra; or painted by Zahra herself, though I doubt her ability to do that; or painted by EB/AB after they moved in, although Zahra never moved in with them, in which case why did LE remove the sections of walls and floor for evidence...

We saw paint cans and rollers left behind by LE after their search of the house, but we also saw two paint brushes bagged and removed by LE during their search. Just not yet sure what to make of all this.

If it was painted that way.. looks to me like it could be a really POOR attempt at Cloud Washing the room.

http://www.cloudwash.com/

http://www.watercolorwalls.com/

Did that myself back in the day with my daughters room.

 

[Belinda]

I tend to think that room was painted for the daughter of the owner of the house. I think AB & EB did some touch-ups to cover evidence, but I don't believe for one second that either one of them cared enough to make her a pretty room.

 

[grayjay]

The Baker version looks a little bit more like some I've seen done with grocery sacks.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4555138_paint-wall-using-paper-bag.html

 

[docwho3]

I am curious. I ran a search on Elisa Baker and Munchausen but failed to find any link
to MSM articles that said for sure that she had the diagnosis.
Can someone provide the link to such a report?

All I have found so far is speculation and would like to know if the diagnosis was
really ever made. (Unclear what bearing this would have on the case but I am curious.)

Ty

 

[bellyup]

I also wondered if it is a joint account do both parties get charged?

I know they do in the state of Ohio.
I have a good friend who is in a horrible relationship and her husband has a habit of writing bad checks. She is also charged when it happens (she's trying to divorce him, but neither are working right now so it makes it close to impossible).

 

[bellyup]

I tend to think that room was painted for the daughter of the owner of the house. I think AB & EB did some touch-ups to cover evidence, but I don't believe for one second that either one of them cared enough to make her a pretty room.

It was reported in MSM that the landlord/owner never lived or intended to live in the house. It was purchased as an income property.

 

[bellyup]

I am curious. I ran a search on Elisa Baker and Munchausen but failed to find any link
to MSM articles that said for sure that she had the diagnosis.
Can someone provide the link to such a report?

All I have found so far is speculation and would like to know if the diagnosis was
really ever made. (Unclear what bearing this would have on the case but I am curious.)

Ty

I don't believe that there has been any actual diagnosis. It's speculation based on her own postings about constantly being ill and also things her children have said.

 

[Blue Ridge]

I don't believe that there has been any actual diagnosis. It's speculation based on her own postings about constantly being ill and also things her children have said.

I also remember Dr Bethany Marshall speculating on it, on NG. But no, I have never seen anything anywhere about her actually having that diagnosis.