Cell Phone Activity Discussion Thread #2

[cityslick]

If you live in the area it's most likely you are familiar with the area.

Watched one of the residents who live there do a drive on YouTube from DB home to the river and it wasn't that far at all, they went over the RR tracks and I think the old casino was around there.

Not much traffic I would venture to say out at that time of night either, throwing the phones would be as easy as throwing a little baby.

Yes, I'm obsessed on the river theory although it could be like the lady from TN, the body could be in plain sight and not been found at all.

I think if you believe that the river comes into the play (whether it be BL, phones or both) then you have to entertain the notion that she used a car to do it because it seems (from locals) unlikely she would be able to do this on foot and not a soul would notice (plus are there not cameras on the bridges?). As far as the phones, there is no conceivable way she was able to dump them in the river that night from the point of making the last vm attempt and JI walking in the door and have enough time to do it. And if it was after the fact, I find it pretty hard to imagine she would of been able to do that and nobody know about, especially after the case blew up in the media.

 

[askfornina]

Thank you! That is what I have been trying to get through on here. Just because it looks close on google, google does not show you what all it REALLY takes to get to the river. IF the phones or the baby were put in the river, it was not very probable that it was done right here. It would more than likely have been done further upstream or downstream where access is better and more private. The bridges here are very busy 24/7 and the access here was really messed up at the time from the flooding and other obstacles. At night it would have had to be someone VERY familiar, not just someone doing something at the spur of the moment.

in da middle, did i dream this? i could have sworn i saw you post that all of the Irwin/Bradley cars are accounted for, which most likely means that a cadaver dog did not hit on them as they would now be in evidence. i can't seem to find the post now. o/t sorry mods :innocent::innocent:

 

[madge]

I think if you believe that the river comes into the play (whether it be BL, phones or both) then you have to entertain the notion that she used a car to do it because it seems (from locals) unlikely she would be able to do this on foot and not a soul would notice (plus are there not cameras on the bridges?). As far as the phones, there is no conceivable way she was able to dump them in the river that night from the point of making the last vm attempt and JI walking in the door and have enough time to do it. And if it was after the fact, I find it pretty hard to imagine she would of been able to do that and nobody know about, especially after the case blew up in the media.

I think it could be done on foot (to the river). Not entirely sure she might not use the car as well but a car going out would perhaps waken a neighbor. Foot would be easier although I didn't say it was easy, but if you wanting to stage a kidnapping then you want somewhere the body would not be found quickly and I"m sure there is a way to the river that is not on camera. Someone living there would know this. As for someone not seeing her walking, if she knew the area like I know my area, then I could go a lot of places in stealth mode.

I don't think DB was in a black out at all

The statistics are overwhelmingly NOT in favor of stranger abduction and that is one reason I have to look at who was with BL that night. Who saw her last and what were they doing.

 

[natsound]

I think if you believe that the river comes into the play (whether it be BL, phones or both) then you have to entertain the notion that she used a car to do it because it seems (from locals) unlikely she would be able to do this on foot and not a soul would notice (plus are there not cameras on the bridges?). As far as the phones, there is no conceivable way she was able to dump them in the river that night from the point of making the last vm attempt and JI walking in the door and have enough time to do it. And if it was after the fact, I find it pretty hard to imagine she would of been able to do that and nobody know about, especially after the case blew up in the media.

According to indepmo in the following post, the cameras on the bridges do not record:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7416677&highlight=bridge+camera#post7416677

 

[cityslick]

I think it could be done on foot (to the river). Not entirely sure she might not use the car as well but a car going out would perhaps waken a neighbor. Foot would be easier although I didn't say it was easy, but if you wanting to stage a kidnapping then you want somewhere the body would not be found quickly and I"m sure there is a way to the river that is not on camera. Someone living there would know this. As for someone not seeing her walking, if she knew the area like I know my area, then I could go a lot of places in stealth mode.

I don't think DB was in a black out at all

The statistics are overwhelmingly NOT in favor of stranger abduction and that is one reason I have to look at who was with BL that night. Who saw her last and what were they doing.

I was just going off of what other posters on the board have said. Both IDM and DeAnn both agree that doing this on foot, while not impossible, would have been very difficult while on foot. DB would have the same problems carrying a 10 month old through rough terrain as any abductor would. The phones would be a bigger problem (dumping them in the river that night) because unlike an abductor, she's got to get back in the house and in bed after that vm attempt (assuming she is the one who made it) in a little over 15 minutes.

 

[cityslick]

According to indepmo in the following post, the cameras on the bridges do not record:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7416677&highlight=bridge+camera#post7416677

Both IDM and DeAnn have mentioned though that even at that hour, those bridges would have traffic going across them. Someone would see her, especially if she had the baby.

 

[cityslick]

Another theory on the phones (which may have been brought up).

What about if whoever took BL/phones stashed the phones nearby (within the radius), then took care of BL (beyond the radius) then returned to retrieve/hide/destroy the phones? They would of had 3+ hours to do that. (from the point of the 11:57 call to the vm attempts)

With this theory, the notion that the kidnapper/DB was bound to stay within the 1/3rd mile radius for 4 hours isn't valid anymore.

 

[madge]

Another theory on the phones (which may have been brought up).

What about if whoever took BL/phones stashed the phones nearby (within the radius), then took care of BL (beyond the radius) then returned to retrieve/hide/destroy the phones? They would of had 3+ hours to do that. (from the point of the 11:57 call to the vm attempts)

With this theory, the notion that the kidnapper/DB was bound to stay within the 1/3rd mile radius for 4 hours isn't valid anymore.

Well Deb could have done that too. She had as much time to set this all up as the SODDI theory. Somebody took the baby and Deb won't answer questions that LE has now developed during a close to 3 month investigation. I'm sorry this silence just does not help her case for me. I just know how I'd be reacting and especially even more so if I had nothing to do with it.

 

[natsound]

I was just going off of what other posters on the board have said. Both IDM and DeAnn both agree that doing this on foot, while not impossible, would have been very difficult while on foot. DB would have the same problems carrying a 10 month old through rough terrain as any abductor would. The phones would be a bigger problem (dumping them in the river that night) because unlike an abductor, she's got to get back in the house and in bed after that vm attempt (assuming she is the one who made it) in a little over 15 minutes.

I'm going to copy, paste, and comment on this in the "Searches for Lisa" thread so we don't get too far off track in the cell phone thread...

 

[In da Middle]

If you live in the area it's most likely you are familiar with the area.

Watched one of the residents who live there do a drive on YouTube from DB home to the river and it wasn't that far at all, they went over the RR tracks and I think the old casino was around there.

Not much traffic I would venture to say out at that time of night either, throwing the phones would be as easy as throwing a little baby.

Yes, I'm obsessed on the river theory although it could be like the lady from TN, the body could be in plain sight and not been found at all.

Lots of truck traffic and traffic going to the other casino right down the road at night. Here is Jim Spellmans tweet on how likely it would be at the old Sam's Town location

jimspellmancnn jim spellman
@
@Juliebellebean facility that I checked out while following up a tip down on the river. Seems unlikely anyone coud get in there unnoticed.
12 Nov

And the youtube video was done in the DAYLIGHT. One heck of a big difference down by the river at night vs daytime. No comparison at all.

 

[In da Middle]

According to indepmo in the following post, the cameras on the bridges do not record:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7416677&highlight=bridge+camera#post7416677

But the cameras at Pour Boys do and the cameras at the Harrah's entrance. And there is a barrier on that bridge that separates walk/bike traffic from vehicle traffic that goes down the entire length of both sides of the bridge. The walk/bike lane is about 8ft wide. If by car, one would have to park at PourBoy's or the casino and walk down the walk/bike lane far enough to get over the water without being seen or taped or one would have to park in the middle of the vehicle traffic part, climb over the approx 4ft barrier while lugging a dead baby plus get it over the other barrier that separates the walk/bike lane from falling over the bridge edge then climb back over the 4ft barrier to get back in the vehicle that is sitting in the middle of the bridge.
If one was to walk from the house to there we are talking about a round trip that would be over an hour long for even the best fit individual with the hills to climb and other things.

 

[DeAnn]

Lots of truck traffic and traffic going to the other casino right down the road at night. Here is Jim Spellmans tweet on how likely it would be at the old Sam's Town location
And the youtube video was done in the DAYLIGHT. One heck of a big difference down by the river at night vs daytime. No comparison at all.

and done in a car versus on foot. Again, no comparison at all.

 

[DeAnn]

But the cameras at Pour Boys do and the cameras at the Harrah's entrance. And there is a barrier on that bridge that separates walk/bike traffic from vehicle traffic that goes down the entire length of both sides of the bridge. The walk/bike lane is about 8ft wide. If by car, one would have to park at PourBoy's or the casino and walk down the walk/bike lane far enough to get over the water without being seen or taped or one would have to park in the middle of the vehicle traffic part, climb over the approx 4ft barrier while lugging a dead baby plus get it over the other barrier that separates the walk/bike lane from falling over the bridge edge then climb back over the 4ft barrier to get back in the vehicle that is sitting in the middle of the bridge.
If one was to walk from the house to there we are talking about a round trip that would be over an hour long for even the best fit individual with the hills to climb and other things.

And the water access on the route to Harrah's (not Choteau) would mean walking along a road where cars are coming and going.

If and I repeat If Baby Lisa was dumped in the Missouri River, I'd think a more desolate location was chosen that was accessible by car. You could get to LaBenite Park in 15 minutes or so one way from the Irwin home depending on lights.

 

[In da Middle]

And the water access on the route to Harrah's (not Choteau) would mean walking along a road where cars are coming and going.

If and I repeat If Baby Lisa was dumped in the Missouri River, I'd think a more desolate location was chosen that was accessible by car. You could get to LaBenite Park in 15 minutes or so one way from the Irwin home depending on lights.

I am not sure how accessible LaBenite Park was at that time. I do know it was quite flooded at one point and at one time they had gates they shut at night to close access right off of 291. I do know at one time previous flooding took out the gates and I am not sure if they were ever replaced. I haven't been that way for a while and when I was, I was not looking at that. But, yes, IF she was put in the river, it was more likely somewhere else and not in the immediate area. Further up 210 east of 291 is very likely as it is easy access and virtually no traffic.

 

[DeAnn]

I am not sure how accessible LaBenite Park was at that time. I do know it was quite flooded at one point and at one time they had gates they shut at night to close access right off of 291. I do know at one time previous flooding took out the gates and I am not sure if they were ever replaced. I haven't been that way for a while and when I was, I was not looking at that. But, yes, IF she was put in the river, it was more likely somewhere else and not in the immediate area. Further up 210 east of 291 is very likely as it is easy access and virtually no traffic.

It was accessible. We drive by there going to and from the airport and the casinos. I was in that area a couple of times right after Lisa went missing and the floodwaters were down significantly by early October but up enough that you could get to the water easier than normal and not have a steep bluff drop off. You could walk around the gates. It's something I thought about so I looked closely that way every time I go in the area. That's where I had thought Tina Porter's husband had dumped her babies' bodies. Do I think that's what happened in this case? No. But it's far more likely than right by Harrah's imo.

 

[natsound]

So DeAnn and InDaMiddle, is it your strong opinion that taking the baby from the house to any point on the river and dumping it in a quick manner is impossible?

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I don't think Jersey was involved. If DB is responsible and if she had help, I think she would most likely call on a family member. How she would have got in touch with anyone I have no idea. Early on, DB said she'd been online that evening although that seemed to disappear from the timeline like the 7:30 and 10:30 checkups. But if Jersey was involved in anyway, I don't see him talking. If he was the perpetrator, he would realize LE doesn't have enough to charge, and he would be unlikely to help their case. If he involved in either the disposal of a body or the disposal of the phones, I don't think he has a good reason to talk. He was picked up for a parole violation. Even with a deal, accessory to a homicide would be more serious than any charges he faces now, and besides, he would probably realize he'd end up as the defense alternate theory of the crime. All MOO.

BBM That's the issue I have with DB calling in a family member, we have had no evidence of any other calls made that night. I wish LE would release what evidence if any they have on SB and JB's whereabouts and phone records, because if DB didn't use her phone to contact anyone, that leaves few other options of how she would / could have made contact with anyone. Short of flagging down the first bicycle to roll by.
I still haven't seen enough evidence to satisfy a jury that anyone we know of was involved. With that said I'll stick to my theory for now and wait for more from LE that we can work with.

 

[In da Middle]

So DeAnn and InDaMiddle, is it your strong opinion that taking the baby from the house to any point on the river and dumping it in a quick manner is impossible?

Quick and at night IMO is extremely unlikely. I will not go as far as to say impossible, but the odds of this happening are even extremely less than the odds everybody is stating that the likelihood of it being a nonparent being involved.

 

[DeAnn]

So DeAnn and InDaMiddle, is it your strong opinion that taking the baby from the house to any point on the river and dumping it in a quick manner is impossible?

I won't say impossible. It depends on what your definition of "quick" is. If it's 15 minutes or less, no. If it's an hour, then yes. You could get to LaBenite Park and back in an hour but you also risk someone going over the bridge looking down below and seeing your vehicle ...but since it's a known hangout for druggies and other folks into illicit behavior it wouldn't attract a lot of attention at say 1 a.m.

Summer Shipp was killed and dumped along the Little Blue in eastern Jackson County and took a long, long time for her remains to turn up. If I were trying to hide a body, I'd use the Little Blue but that's because that's what I *know*. Not what I would be doing that but you get my point. I think you have to look at what people know and don't know and are comfortable with and their physical condition.

ETA: If your primary physical activity is lifting up children and lifting up a wine glass on the stoop of your home...I have a hard time believing you are in the physical condition to tromp around miles to and from the river bank.

 

[natsound]

I won't say impossible. It depends on what your definition of "quick" is. If it's 15 minutes or less, no. If it's an hour, then yes. You could get to LaBenite Park and back in an hour but you also risk someone going over the bridge looking down below and seeing your vehicle ...but since it's a known hangout for druggies and other folks into illicit behavior it wouldn't attract a lot of attention at say 1 a.m.

Summer Shipp was killed and dumped along the Little Blue in eastern Jackson County and took a long, long time for her remains to turn up. If I were trying to hide a body, I'd use the Little Blue but that's because that's what I *know*. Not what I would be doing that but you get my point. I think you have to look at what people know and don't know and are comfortable with and their physical condition.

ETA: If your primary physical activity is lifting up children and lifting up a wine glass on the stoop of your home...I have a hard time believing you are in the physical condition to tromp around miles to and from the river bank.

Gotcha. I can't see DB leaving two children asleep in the house for an hour and getting away with it.