justamommy
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Unless they were cooperating. :twocents:
Cell Phone Activity Timeline as of 11/11
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Unless they were cooperating. :twocents:
Not true. Any defense team is going to obtain their own copies/records of something that is obtainable for what they are up against, unless there is no other source (eg; video from interrogation room, crime scene photos LE took). In this case, this is a provider in which the client of the defense team can obtain these records from. No defense team, especially in the capacity of JT is going to rely on records from LE unless the records in question are records that LE specifically documented as in the example I gave up above, especially after making the accusations against LE that they suggested their clients were potential suspects.
I simply cannot buy into this topic until a reliable source such as LE has officially released records, or a timeline in records.
When you have someone saying a 50 second phone call was made, then turn around and say the service was restricted, it makes no sense. Furthermore, it makes no sense for one of the owners of the phones to attempt to make contact with one of the other owners of the phones that night when it should have already been clear service was restricted?
askfornina
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posting this again here for easy access. i know my post in the last thread was linked upthread, but here it is again in case anyone missed it. WALL OF TEXT ALERT!
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/11/11...a-disappeared/
transcript of relevant phone info from this interview with JP:
MK: as we here at America live reported this week, investigators in this case have told the family that they have phone records proving that even though DB and JI's phones were restricted on the day that the baby went missing, a call was at least attempted at 11:57pm on DB's phone that night. That's the time in which DB told investigators she was sleeping. That call went to the phone of a woman named MW, who lives in a questionable house, and who tells police and other that she does not know DB or her husband JI, and says she did not get any call or voicemail. Now, we here at America Live are learning that at 3:17 am and at 3:32am that same night, someone tried to access DB's voicemail on DB's phone. Someone also tried to use the internet on that phone repeatedly. Joining me Live now, for the first time, the attorney for the Irwin family, John Picerno. These events are starting to create a timeline that you believe could support an intruder theory. Tell us why.
JP: That's right. The timing of everything is, just as you just said in your opening comments, there is no other evidence other than the fact that Debbie was asleep after midnight, she went to bed after 10:30. she was asleep throughout the morning. This phone problem that they had was when the phones were cut off and could only recieve incoming phone calls and incoming texts from early in the afternoon. She recieved a uh, her husband, uh not her husband, her fiance Jeremy tried to contact her early in the evening to tell her that he was going to be late coming home, it went direct to the verizon message, stating that the phone is not operable. And then the next thing that we have is FBI confirmation that at 11:57pm according to the phone records that they showed both to Joe and myself, that there was an outgoing phone call to MW that lasted approximately 50 seconds. There is absolutely no other phone calls that were ever made between the two, the FBI has all of the records. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that these two people knew eachother, or that in any way were connected.
MK: And then the next phone record that evening shows that somebody attempted to call DB's voicemail at 3:17 and 3:22am?
JP: That is correct. Along with the fact that the internet browser was activated 5 times although from the records you can't tell exactly the time that the buttons were pushed to search the internet.
MK: so was the internet successfully accessed, do we know?
JP: I believe so. I don't believe that there would be a record of it.
MK: Okay, so are the feds telling you what, if anything was searched if something was searched?
JP: No, that wasn't discussed when we were there. We actually saw the phone records, we saw the ping records as well, and that part was not discussed.
MK: The ping records. Where do they show? How far away from the home did the cellphones get?
JP: Anywhere from 1/5th of a mile up to 1/3 of a mile, in a, sort of a, if you can visualize a baseball field from their house, and that is in the wooded area behind their house all the way down to the banks of the Missouri river.
MK: So the cellphones never got more than 1/3rd of a mile away from the Irwin home?
JP: Not according to the powerpoint presentation that the FBI showed to both Mr.Tacopina and myself on Nov.1st when we met with them for 3 hours.
MK: And so John, lets talk it through because you can argue this either way as you know. We've been sure to underscore to our viewers throughout the coverage of this case that they need to keep an open mind. We don't know what happened. There could be a baby girl out there right now that needs our help. But, if you want to argue it as the prosecution might against the parents, they could say 11:57pm, DB tries to call someone, MW, on her phone. Mw according to our reporting, lives in a house in which crystal meth is used regularly and our witness who lives in that house says she also is a user. DB is calling her, perhaps for drugs, perhaps for some other reason. Doesn't get through- something happens with the baby. And who else would be calling DB's own voicemail at 3:30 in the morning other than DB? Talk that through with me.
JP: Sure. The 11:57 call, the phone number that was dialed is MW's. Again, these two people don't know eachother. If you were going to call somebody for a drug connection, you would already have their phone number, you would already have called their phone number in the past because you would have already been in the position to score drugs from this person earlier. Uh, the only person that would dial that number of MW would be somebody who knew her phone number. Obviously, from where we are looking at, since we know DB and JI had no knowledge that this person even existed, the only person that has been involved in this investigation thus far that knew that phone number was Jersey.
MK: Okay, we haven't confirmed that, it's just that you know, you hear things in the case that may or may not be true. Okay then, so explain then, why would Jersey, if he had this phone, why would he be trying to access DB's voicemail at 3:30am?
JP: Why would anybody be trying to access the voicemail, especially someone who knew that you couldn't access the voicemail because the phones had been turned off? So the owner of the phone had known from Verizon that the phones were no longer operable. and so, it doesn't make any sense for someone to try and collect that voicemail.
MK: I know you believe that this information could support the theory that this homeless guy, Jersey, who is in custody now on other charges, could be the man who possibly took this baby. Perhaps breaking into the house, trying to make a call at 11:57, and then trying to access the voicemail at 3:17 and 3:32. If the phones never got no more than a 1/3 mile radius away from the Irwin home, does that suggest to you, and if it was Jersey calling the voicemail, that would suggest that he sat within 1/3 of a mile of the Irwin home from the time he got in there around midnight to 3:30, why would he do that?
JP: Okay, first of all there is a big point we need to mention in terms of the voicemail access. What was hit was actually the code to get to the voicemail, which is *86, and that was hit twice. And, that doesn't get you into the voicemail, that gets you to the access of the voicemail and at that point you'd have to punch in your personal code unless it was preset. Once again, that supports the fact that the owner of that phone, knowing that the phone had been turned off, would have no reason to dial the voicemail to find out anything because they know that it doesn't work. So that makes absolutely no sense. In terms of, and i'm not saying that it's this Jersey guy, it could very well be him, it could be one of his cohorts, it could be anybody. It could be any number of people. And you know, I've been doing this for twenty years and the actions of drug addicts and what they're doing and when they are doing it is never logical. And so the pings, it's my understanding that the pings would continue to go off those towers unless and until the batteries were removed. So- I have no idea what happened to the phones, we haven't seen them and I have no idea what happened to the movement of the phones.
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/11/11...a-disappeared/
transcript of relevant phone info from this interview with JP:
MK: as we here at America live reported this week, investigators in this case have told the family that they have phone records proving that even though DB and JI's phones were restricted on the day that the baby went missing, a call was at least attempted at 11:57pm on DB's phone that night. That's the time in which DB told investigators she was sleeping. That call went to the phone of a woman named MW, who lives in a questionable house, and who tells police and other that she does not know DB or her husband JI, and says she did not get any call or voicemail. Now, we here at America Live are learning that at 3:17 am and at 3:32am that same night, someone tried to access DB's voicemail on DB's phone. Someone also tried to use the internet on that phone repeatedly. Joining me Live now, for the first time, the attorney for the Irwin family, John Picerno. These events are starting to create a timeline that you believe could support an intruder theory. Tell us why.
JP: That's right. The timing of everything is, just as you just said in your opening comments, there is no other evidence other than the fact that Debbie was asleep after midnight, she went to bed after 10:30. she was asleep throughout the morning. This phone problem that they had was when the phones were cut off and could only recieve incoming phone calls and incoming texts from early in the afternoon. She recieved a uh, her husband, uh not her husband, her fiance Jeremy tried to contact her early in the evening to tell her that he was going to be late coming home, it went direct to the verizon message, stating that the phone is not operable. And then the next thing that we have is FBI confirmation that at 11:57pm according to the phone records that they showed both to Joe and myself, that there was an outgoing phone call to MW that lasted approximately 50 seconds. There is absolutely no other phone calls that were ever made between the two, the FBI has all of the records. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that these two people knew eachother, or that in any way were connected.
MK: And then the next phone record that evening shows that somebody attempted to call DB's voicemail at 3:17 and 3:22am?
JP: That is correct. Along with the fact that the internet browser was activated 5 times although from the records you can't tell exactly the time that the buttons were pushed to search the internet.
MK: so was the internet successfully accessed, do we know?
JP: I believe so. I don't believe that there would be a record of it.
MK: Okay, so are the feds telling you what, if anything was searched if something was searched?
JP: No, that wasn't discussed when we were there. We actually saw the phone records, we saw the ping records as well, and that part was not discussed.
MK: The ping records. Where do they show? How far away from the home did the cellphones get?
JP: Anywhere from 1/5th of a mile up to 1/3 of a mile, in a, sort of a, if you can visualize a baseball field from their house, and that is in the wooded area behind their house all the way down to the banks of the Missouri river.
MK: So the cellphones never got more than 1/3rd of a mile away from the Irwin home?
JP: Not according to the powerpoint presentation that the FBI showed to both Mr.Tacopina and myself on Nov.1st when we met with them for 3 hours.
MK: And so John, lets talk it through because you can argue this either way as you know. We've been sure to underscore to our viewers throughout the coverage of this case that they need to keep an open mind. We don't know what happened. There could be a baby girl out there right now that needs our help. But, if you want to argue it as the prosecution might against the parents, they could say 11:57pm, DB tries to call someone, MW, on her phone. Mw according to our reporting, lives in a house in which crystal meth is used regularly and our witness who lives in that house says she also is a user. DB is calling her, perhaps for drugs, perhaps for some other reason. Doesn't get through- something happens with the baby. And who else would be calling DB's own voicemail at 3:30 in the morning other than DB? Talk that through with me.
JP: Sure. The 11:57 call, the phone number that was dialed is MW's. Again, these two people don't know eachother. If you were going to call somebody for a drug connection, you would already have their phone number, you would already have called their phone number in the past because you would have already been in the position to score drugs from this person earlier. Uh, the only person that would dial that number of MW would be somebody who knew her phone number. Obviously, from where we are looking at, since we know DB and JI had no knowledge that this person even existed, the only person that has been involved in this investigation thus far that knew that phone number was Jersey.
MK: Okay, we haven't confirmed that, it's just that you know, you hear things in the case that may or may not be true. Okay then, so explain then, why would Jersey, if he had this phone, why would he be trying to access DB's voicemail at 3:30am?
JP: Why would anybody be trying to access the voicemail, especially someone who knew that you couldn't access the voicemail because the phones had been turned off? So the owner of the phone had known from Verizon that the phones were no longer operable. and so, it doesn't make any sense for someone to try and collect that voicemail.
MK: I know you believe that this information could support the theory that this homeless guy, Jersey, who is in custody now on other charges, could be the man who possibly took this baby. Perhaps breaking into the house, trying to make a call at 11:57, and then trying to access the voicemail at 3:17 and 3:32. If the phones never got no more than a 1/3 mile radius away from the Irwin home, does that suggest to you, and if it was Jersey calling the voicemail, that would suggest that he sat within 1/3 of a mile of the Irwin home from the time he got in there around midnight to 3:30, why would he do that?
JP: Okay, first of all there is a big point we need to mention in terms of the voicemail access. What was hit was actually the code to get to the voicemail, which is *86, and that was hit twice. And, that doesn't get you into the voicemail, that gets you to the access of the voicemail and at that point you'd have to punch in your personal code unless it was preset. Once again, that supports the fact that the owner of that phone, knowing that the phone had been turned off, would have no reason to dial the voicemail to find out anything because they know that it doesn't work. So that makes absolutely no sense. In terms of, and i'm not saying that it's this Jersey guy, it could very well be him, it could be one of his cohorts, it could be anybody. It could be any number of people. And you know, I've been doing this for twenty years and the actions of drug addicts and what they're doing and when they are doing it is never logical. And so the pings, it's my understanding that the pings would continue to go off those towers unless and until the batteries were removed. So- I have no idea what happened to the phones, we haven't seen them and I have no idea what happened to the movement of the phones.
BBM
Link to JB purportedly staying at his parent's home, I missed that info. TIA!
Mountain_Kat
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JP: That's right. The timing of everything is, just as you just said in your opening comments, there is no other evidence other than the fact that Debbie was asleep after midnight, she went to bed after 10:30. she was asleep throughout the morning. This phone problem that they had was when the phones were cut off and could only recieve incoming phone calls and incoming texts from early in the afternoon. She recieved a uh, her husband, uh not her husband, her fiance Jeremy tried to contact her early in the evening to tell her that he was going to be late coming home, it went direct to the verizon message, stating that the phone is not operable. And then the next thing that we have is FBI confirmation that at 11:57pm according to the phone records that they showed both to Joe and myself, that there was an outgoing phone call to MW that lasted approximately 50 seconds. There is absolutely no other phone calls that were ever made between the two, the FBI has all of the records. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that these two people knew eachother, or that in any way were connected.
So, according to JP the phones COULD recieve incoming calls and texts, but for some reason, when JI tries to call home, it goes right to voicemail and says the phones are inoperable?
What am I missing here?
So, according to JP the phones COULD recieve incoming calls and texts, but for some reason, when JI tries to call home, it goes right to voicemail and says the phones are inoperable?
What am I missing here?
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I see Nothing, What it tells me is that Jeremy could and did call according to JP, so why is it impossible to believe that Deborah wouldn't check voice mail to see if she had a message. Why would a kidnapper take three phones, find out they are dead and then attempt to activate voicemail and the computer. ? That action would be done by the owner of the phone as far as I am concerned. jmo
josie1986
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well that is a good point but could they call 911 if it was restricted?
just thinking of the records showing the cell tried to or did connect to the internet,going back to the joanna yeates case here, vincent tabak googled how long decomp would take etc based on my view that DB is involved somehow maybe they did something simliar.would have been possible that she could have used their computer for this but even i know(and im not the most tech savvy person) that if u delete the history on your desktop/laptop it can still be traced but i didn't know that it can be done for cell internet connections too.
i seen someone post up thread about being able to connect to wifi even if you are restricted i had the same thought.
Marple
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I know that when I have tried to reach a cell phone and the service has been disconnected, the message is something like "the subscriber you are trying to reach is unavailable." If the cell phone is turned off or the battery is dead, the caller goes straight to the person's VM.
I don't know what this has to do with your question because I'm just now having my morning coffee. I'll have a few more cups and hopefully my morning fog will lift
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Very good point Hopeful2
Sigh Sister
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I know that when I have tried to reach a cell phone and the service has been disconnected, the message is something like "the subscriber you are trying to reach is unavailable." If the cell phone is turned off or the battery is dead, the caller goes straight to the person's VM.
I don't know what this has to do with your question because I'm just now having my morning coffee. I'll have a few more cups and hopefully my morning fog will lift
Based on JP's comment, I think JI got a message from Verizon that the phone was inoperable, not that it went to voicemail. And yet, this same phone was able to make a call at 11:57pm?? I give up trying to figure out the cell phone business!
ullhair:
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Maybe she was not where the phone was so she didn't hear it ring. It would then go to voicemail and/or message.
IF he tried after midnight, maybe the phone receiving status changed. Maybe after midnight the phones were totally inoperable and couldn't even receive calls.
Ok, breaking this down for the cell phone challenged!:seeya: When you are not inside to answer your landline phone it goes to your answering machine (voicemail). If your answering machine is not on, the call goes nowhere.
Sigh Sister
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Once again, we have conflicting stories. Didn't JI eventually say that he called 911 from his phone while he was at neighbors? In that version, there wasn't any running around looking for cell phones. Or did my mind make this up?
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Marple
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No, I remember the same thing. He said he went across the street to see if Lisa was there and when she wasn't, he took out his cell phone and called 911. As I remember it, he made the call while in motion, going from the neighbors house, back toward his own.
Marple
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If it were during the time that DB was switching sim cards, updating contacts, maybe that is why he would get a "no service" message.
Hopeful2
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Ha, it is quite possible I made it up as well. I could have sworn I heard say in an interview she was yelling at JI to get the phones but I will make coffee then search for link.
Maybe we should start a list/ thread of facts we know in this case as confirmed by LE:
1) Baby Lisa is missing
2) The phones were reported as missing
3) Um... Er... Anyone got anything else?
LisaB
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I don't see two versions. In both cases, Jeremy was unable to reach Deborah on her cell because they had not paid the bill, resulting in deactivation of the phones. What am I missing that you picked up on?
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