Cleaning crew member shot and killed on porch after arriving at the wrong house

[jepop]

I guess I am just a decent human being who knows shooting a human being through a lock door is wrong.

I agree and support your position!! . What the actual...? Moo the home owner must be held accountable at all costs. They are an adult, supposedly living in a civilised, lawful society. Imo we hold adults responsible for knowing that shooting another human being through a door is wrong!.and an unarmed one at that. No, no and no. Imo

You cannot just shoot a person through a door because you feel scared and pressured to relieve your stress and fear. Moo. That is not ok and not right. Personal, adult responsibility demands you behave with decency and value other people's lives. There is no reasonable justification for this killing. Moo in legal terms It is reckless homicide at minimum. All jmo.

What a shocking, reckless killing. I cannot imagine how the victim's husband and family and children are feeling. Abandoned I would say, that charges and an arrest has not happened yet.

The PA must prosecute this imo. A law abiding society cannot condone this. It is not lawful for civilians to kill other civilians unless it is clearly done in self defence to save yourself from immediate imminent severe harm. Shocking! Moo

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The homeowner had no way of knowing the situation of the people attempting to break into the home

I disagree using a key in a doorknob is an attempt to break in. But anyway he could have yelled out to them to ask what they wanted or to tell them he had a gun and to leave, or, even better, he could have stayed locked in the bedroom and waited for police to arrive.

 

[MrsWatson]

2nd Amendment lawyer hired by homeowners in Whitestown shooting

A prominent Indiana lawyer has been retained by the owner of the home where Maria Florinda Ríos Pérez was fatally shot through the front door.

eu.indystar.com

 

[IceIce9]

One of my neighbors just posted on our neighborhood website that someone had knocked on their front door hard, several times, pounding hard like they expected someone to be home, and then left a large bag of serving bowls, utensils, cups, and plates on her front porch.

She didn’t open the door, since she was an elderly person living alone and wasn’t expecting anyone. She waited until they drove away.

Obviously the wrong address, as she posted that there was no identification on any of the items.

Good thing she didn’t shoot a person who was pounding on her front door.

JMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I disagree using a key in a doorknob is an attempt to break in. But anyway he could have yelled out to them to ask what they wanted or to tell them he had a gun and to leave, or, even better, he could have stayed locked in the bedroom and waited for police to arrive.

It’s possible the homeowner thought they were using a lock picking kit rather than a key. 5+ minutes is a long time to try and unlock a door. imo

 

[legalmomma]

911 call and discussion between officers and 911 operator- “two Hispanic males trying to break in. Unsure on weapon”:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989023202572660771

 

[kuromiiiilove]

It’s possible the homeowner thought they were using a lock picking kit rather than a key. 5+ minutes is a long time to try and unlock a door. imo

In my opinion, the idea that the homeowner was justified here is borderline absurd.

Stand your ground requires imminent threat. Someone toggling your doorknob is not an imminent threat. Betting on speculation is not justification - speculation or paranoia does not satisfy the threshold of reasonable belief.

I say this as a responsible gun owner in a SYG/Castle Doctrine state who has had to point a gun at an actual intruder, and did not shoot them: stand your ground and castle doctrine are not carte blanche to shoot first and figure out the facts later. The belief must be reasonable, and the force must be proportional. Even if the belief was reasonable here, the force was absolutely not proportional.

Saying ‘the homeowner may have thought that it was a lock picking kit’ or ‘5+ minutes is a long time to try to unlock a door’ is effectively arguing for lethal force on the basis of fear.

So I ask you - what exactly was the maid/cleaning crew doing that would make a reasonable person believe they were about to be murdered, raped, beaten? The law isn’t about fear or ‘maybe’. It’s what a reasonable person would objectively believe. Again, toggling a doorknob or knocking on a door does not constitute reasonable belief, and the courts have reaffirmed that in the cases of Ralph Yarl and AJ Owens.

IMO, it’s irresponsible to claim this was a justified shooting.

JMO.

Edit: spelling

 

[dalsglen]

Our front doors unlocked roughly 6am-10pm. I've had the postman, amazon and other delivery companies just open my door to place items inside. The kids and our friends/family just walk in with no notice. You know what I do? Nothing! I don't instantly jump up and grab something to arm myself with, I carry on doing what I was and have a listen/look if I can to shout cheers/hey.

Shooting through a locked front doors never justified. Ever.

 

[tara83]

I really want to hear that 911 call to see if he was asked the race of the people or brought that up himself. Very interesting he left a safer location upstairs after looking out the window and chose to go back downstairs to shoot through a locked door.Sounds more like rage than fear to me... JMO

 

[dalsglen]

I really want to hear that 911 call to see if he was asked the race of the people or brought that up himself. Very interesting he left a safer location upstairs after looking out the window and chose to go back downstairs to shoot through a locked door.Sounds more like rage than fear to me... JMO

You would think if you were armed upstairs then the safest place to be would be to remain up there. Can hover at ground level at the top of the stairs and shoot from there if really needed. But nah, put yourself in more danger, aye ok...

 

[Mauig’ma]

I really want to hear that 911 call to see if he was asked the race of the people or brought that up himself. Very interesting he left a safer location upstairs after looking out the window and chose to go back downstairs to shoot through a locked door.Sounds more like rage than fear to me... JMO

After listening to the 911 call it’s evident race played a part imo. He was scared of 2 Hispanics & panicked. He needs to be held accountable and put in jail. So sorry for the victims. Needless death

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I really want to hear that 911 call to see if he was asked the race of the people or brought that up himself. Very interesting he left a safer location upstairs after looking out the window and chose to go back downstairs to shoot through a locked door.Sounds more like rage than fear to me... JMO

That means nothing to me. It’s bizarre that a person wouldn’t use every descriptor available to them. imo

 

[tara83]

That means nothing to me. It’s bizarre that a person wouldn’t use every descriptor available to them. imo

Is it bizarre to you that a so called terrified man leaves a safer place(when he knows cops are on the way}to put himself closer to what he fears?

 

[IceIce9]

That means nothing to me. It’s bizarre that a person wouldn’t use every descriptor available to them. imo

Why wouldn’t he stay upstairs where it was safer? He knew the police were in the way.

Why would he go downstairs where the “danger” was?

 

[tlcya]

Why wouldn’t he stay upstairs where it was safer? He knew the police were in the way.

Why would he go downstairs where the “danger” was?

the argument will be because in Indiana there is no duty to retreat from or otherwise attempt to evade the perceived threat. I think, similar to the Susan Lorincz case re the murder of Ajike "A.J." Shantrell Owens, this will not pass muster as defense. No entry was made. No "break in" happened. JMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Is it bizarre to you that a so called terrified man leaves a safer place(when he knows cops are on the way}to put himself closer to what he fears?

In the end, all that matters is what the law says.

 

[CuriousCricket]

With all due respect, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. MOO, the homeowners weren’t terrorized. Again, MOO.

I'm good with agreeing to disagree. People seem to be very different in their response to things. If someone was trying to break into my home, I would be terrorized. It sounds as though you are enough different from me that you would not be. I sincerely hope neither of us has to experience it.

 

[CuriousCricket]

In my opinion, the idea that the homeowner was justified here is borderline absurd.

Stand your ground requires imminent threat. Someone toggling your doorknob is not an imminent threat. Betting on speculation is not justification - speculation or paranoia does not satisfy the threshold of reasonable belief.

I say this as a responsible gun owner in a SYG/Castle Doctrine state who has had to point a gun at an actual intruder, and did not shoot them: stand your ground and castle doctrine are not carte blanche to shoot first and figure out the facts later. The belief must be reasonable, and the force must be proportional. Even if the belief was reasonable here, the force was absolutely not proportional.

Saying ‘the homeowner may have thought that it was a lock picking kit’ or ‘5+ minutes is a long time to try to unlock a door’ is effectively arguing for lethal force on the basis of fear.

So I ask you - what exactly was the maid/cleaning crew doing that would make a reasonable person believe they were about to be murdered, raped, beaten? The law isn’t about fear or ‘maybe’. It’s what a reasonable person would objectively believe. Again, toggling a doorknob or knocking on a door does not constitute reasonable belief, and the courts have reaffirmed that in the cases of Ralph Yarl and AJ Owens.

IMO, it’s irresponsible to claim this was a justified shooting.

JMO.

Edit: spelling

I am not claiming this is justified. I am saying it is not as one-sided as some people seem to be making it to be and that I feel compassion for the person whose life has also effectively ended. Life as the shooter knew it is over. I see that as extremely sad.

As a gun owner who ponders scenerios in my head, I have been listening, considering and attempting to learn.

 

[Gators North]

I'm good with agreeing to disagree. People seem to be very different in their response to things. If someone was trying to break into my home, I would be terrorized. It sounds as though you are enough different from me that you would not be. I sincerely hope neither of us has to experience it.

Yes, me too!

 

[Friday Fan]

If he was really fearful wouldn't he have insisted that dispatch stay on the line with him?

We've all seen the movies, "Help, someone is breaking into my house!"
Dispatch: "What are they doing?"
Caller: "This and that etc"
Dispatch: "I want you to do..."
Caller: "Help!! Hurry up!!"
Dispatch: "We'll be there as soon as possible"
Caller: "Stay on the line with me"


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