Cleaning crew member shot and killed on porch after arriving at the wrong house

  • #241
This case reminds me of the saying “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” Swap out a handgun for the hammer, and add a pre-existing distrust of strangers, and perhaps every person who tries to open your door looks like an intruder with nefarious intentions.
Note also that, like many others on this thread, I live in a home where a legally-obtained and owned firearm is safely and securely stored. Even my home security system was triggered in the middle of the night, I do not believe I would immediately jump to grab it (let alone discharge it) prior to at least visually confirming the person posed a threat to me (aka was wearing a ski mask, holding a weapon, etc.) and verbally alerting them that police were on their way and that I was prepared to shoot them if they didn’t GTFO.
 
  • #242
In the end, all that matters is what the law says.

However the law is not written in such a way that this case is crystal clear for everyone. Many of us probably have an opinion we feel certain is the right one, yet some of us will have completely opposite opinions.

If this goes to trial, the instructions given to the jury about interpreting the law might make all the difference. NOT the actual law itself. JMO.

And then later there may be a civil lawsuit as well...
 
  • #243
An update on the prosecutor's review of the case, originally scheduled to come on Nov. 14, was postponed after Prosecutor Kent Eastwood had a family emergency. That announcement has been tentatively moved to the afternoon of Nov. 17.
(…)
The prosecutor could charge the shooter, decline to charge the shooter, or refer the matter to a grand jury for a final decision. It's unclear if the update scheduled for Nov. 17 marks the end of the prosecutor's review of the case.

 
  • #244
from his earlier comment about the law possibly needing to be amended, it sounds like he's afraid to make a decision. guessing he gives it to a grand jury.
 
  • #245
911 call and discussion between officers and 911 operator- “two Hispanic males trying to break in. Unsure on weapon”:

With the information the reporting officers had via the dispatcher via the homeowners, consider what might have happened if the homeowner had not shot the woman before police arrived on scene. The cleaning people could have been at risk of being shot by the officers instead.
 
  • #246
With the information the reporting officers had via the dispatcher via the homeowners, consider what might have happened if the homeowner had not shot the woman before police arrived on scene. The cleaning people could have been at risk of being shot by the officers instead.
I don't think so.

How often has a police officer shot cleaning people?

Sure they often shoot innocent intoxicated or mentally ill people due to their behavior, but not cleaning people who likely don't speak English. They weren't armed. They were not behaving erratically. They hadn't broken in.

Unless they charged at the officers or run off, they would not have been at risk. Cops are usually pretty good at reading body language. They probably could follow basic commands in English. It's the officer's job to defuse the situation, not randomly shoot people who happen to be in the wrong place.

And one of the "men" was actually a woman.
 
  • #247
WHITESTOWN, Ind.–An update in the shooting death of a cleaning lady in Whitestown from earlier this month has been put on hold.

On Friday, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood said he is dealing with an unexpected family emergency, so that update will now be delayed until Monday assuming Eastwood has returned to the office as expected. Other than that, they say they cannot give additional comments at this time.
 
  • #248
On Monday afternoon, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood will provide an update on the investigation into the shooting of a cleaning woman at a home in Whitestown.

Maria Florinda Rios Perez was shot and killed after she showed up at the wrong house. Cops say the homeowner thought someone was breaking in and shot her through the front door.

The big question is will the homeowner face criminal charges given that Indiana has very robust self-defense laws? Press conference is at 2 p.m.

We'll be there and will provide an update once we get it.
Tomorrow afternoon, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood will provide an update on the investigation into the shooting of a cleaning woman at a home in Whitestown.

Maria Florinda Rios Perez was shot and killed after she showed up at the wrong house.
Cops say the homeowner thought someone was breaking in and shot her through the front door.

The big question is will the homeowner face criminal charges given that Indiana has very robust self-defense laws?

Press conference is at 2 p.m. We'll be there.
 
  • #249
On Monday afternoon, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood will provide an update on the investigation into the shooting of a cleaning woman at a home in Whitestown.

Maria Florinda Rios Perez was shot and killed after she showed up at the wrong house. Cops say the homeowner thought someone was breaking in and shot her through the front door.

The big question is will the homeowner face criminal charges given that Indiana has very robust self-defense laws? Press conference is at 2 p.m.

We'll be there and will provide an update once we get it.
Tomorrow afternoon, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood will provide an update on the investigation into the shooting of a cleaning woman at a home in Whitestown.

Maria Florinda Rios Perez was shot and killed after she showed up at the wrong house.
Cops say the homeowner thought someone was breaking in and shot her through the front door.

The big question is will the homeowner face criminal charges given that Indiana has very robust self-defense laws?

Press conference is at 2 p.m. We'll be there.

Thanks for the info!
I'll be here too (virtually)
 
  • #250
I don't think so.

How often has a police officer shot cleaning people?

Sure they often shoot innocent intoxicated or mentally ill people due to their behavior, but not cleaning people who likely don't speak English. They weren't armed. They were not behaving erratically. They hadn't broken in.

Unless they charged at the officers or run off, they would not have been at risk. Cops are usually pretty good at reading body language. They probably could follow basic commands in English. It's the officer's job to defuse the situation, not randomly shoot people who happen to be in the wrong place.

And one of the "men" was actually a woman.
Well, my post was meant somewhat sardonically, but as I said, think about the info that the police were given... 2 Hispanic males breaking into 911 caller's home, possibly armed (yes, it said unknown arms, but I believe a cop would hear that as possibly armed).

And think about what happened to 12 year old Tamir Rice who was killed by police when he was walking around a park with a toy gun. Someone had called 911 to report a possible person with a gun in the park, and the reporting officers arrived and killed the juvenile within 1.5 to 2 seconds of arriving (time verified on video).

In that case, the dispatcher didn't give the police some of the details they got from the 911 caller, including that it looked like it might be a kid, and that the gun might be a toy.

In this case with the cleaning couple, the cops were told 2 Hispanic males, unknown what arms they might have, they're breaking into caller's house... yes, I could definitely see it happening. Especially if they were holding anything in their hand, which they probably were, or if they happened to reach their hand toward their waist, classic trigger for cops to shoot without asking questions.
 
  • #251
In all honesty IMO, what the police might, or might not have done arriving on the scene is not relevant. What is relevant is what information the 911 caller (and homeowner IIUC) had, or did not have to judge whether there was a perceived threat or not. And also any information they communicated or did not communicate. I imagine the information from electronic devices, cell phones, and the recorded 911 call will be important.

If as stated there was the caller’s own apparent indication that one individual might be a child, and that any apparent ‘weapon’ or ‘gun’ may have been a toy.

I shall patiently wait to see what prosecutors and investigators do with this case and any charges therefrom. And if necessary, a grand jury. Sadly, and unfortunately, it seems an unsuspecting hired cleaning individual was shot upon arriving at their destination and did not survive. IANAL. MOO
I think you misinterpreted part of my post. When I mentioned the 911 caller talking about a child and a possibly toy gun, I was referring to a completely different case, one that I brought up to compare with the current case under discussion, to point out how inaccurate info from the 911 dispatcher can affect reporting officers' actions, with sometimes deadly results, as seen in the Rice case that I used as illustration of this principle. MOO
 
  • #252
Well, my post was meant somewhat sardonically, but as I said, think about the info that the police were given... 2 Hispanic males breaking into 911 caller's home, possibly armed (yes, it said unknown arms, but I believe a cop would hear that as possibly armed).

And think about what happened to 12 year old Tamir Rice who was killed by police when he was walking around a park with a toy gun. Someone had called 911 to report a possible person with a gun in the park, and the reporting officers arrived and killed the juvenile within 1.5 to 2 seconds of arriving (time verified on video).

In that case, the dispatcher didn't give the police some of the details they got from the 911 caller, including that it looked like it might be a kid, and that the gun might be a toy.

In this case with the cleaning couple, the cops were told 2 Hispanic males, unknown what arms they might have, they're breaking into caller's house... yes, I could definitely see it happening. Especially if they were holding anything in their hand, which they probably were, or if they happened to reach their hand toward their waist, classic trigger for cops to shoot without asking questions.
I forgot about Tamir Rice. Thanks.

I still don't think they would have been shot by police. And if police are asked what they would have done, they likely will say, "We would have assessed the situation". But hindsight is 2020.
 
  • #253
  • #254
  • #255

“Curt Anderson, 62, will face one count of voluntary manslaughter, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood announced.

The prosecutor acknowledged that Indiana has strong protections for self-defense, but said those protections did not apply in this instance.”
 
  • #256

“Curt Anderson, 62, will face one count of voluntary manslaughter, Boone County Prosecutor Kent Eastwood announced.

The prosecutor acknowledged that Indiana has strong protections for self-defense, but said those protections did not apply in this instance.”
This article also says her husband was the other cleaner with her :( how awful.
 
  • #257

According to court documents, 62-year-old Curt Andersen has been charged by the Boone County Prosecutor’s Office with one count of voluntary manslaughter, a Level 2 felony

————
IN Code § 35-42-1-3
Sec. 3. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:

(1) kills another human being; or

(2) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, kills a fetus in any stage of development;

while acting under sudden heat commits voluntary manslaughter, a Level 2 felony.

(b) The existence of sudden heat is a mitigating factor that reduces what otherwise would be murder under section 1(1) of this chapter to voluntary manslaughter.

—————

In Indiana, a conviction for voluntary manslaughter is a Level 2 felony that carries a sentence of 10 to 30 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000. This crime is defined as the knowing or intentional killing of another person while under "sudden heat," which is a mitigating factor that lowers the charge from murder to manslaughter.

————-

Definition of "Sudden Heat"
"Sudden heat" is defined in Indiana law as significant provocation caused by anger, rage, resentment, or terror sufficient to:
  • Obscure the reason of an ordinary person.
  • Prevent deliberation and premeditation.
  • Render the person incapable of cool reflection.

IMG_3967.webp
 
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  • #258
Press conference
 
  • #259
  • #260
With the information the reporting officers had via the dispatcher via the homeowners, consider what might have happened if the homeowner had not shot the woman before police arrived on scene. The cleaning people could have been at risk of being shot by the officers instead.
DBM
 

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