GUILTY CO - 1 dead, 8 injured, shots fired at STEM School in Highlands Ranch, 7 May 2019

[Elisaa444]

Why don’t other countries that have the same issues as the US have all of these mass shootings?

I've always wondered this as well.

^moo^

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM .....

This, IMO, is a large part of what produces the "why" behind school shootings. And I'm afraid we can't fix it. I don't think it's possible. All we can do is try to mitigate the damage where we can. (That's my $0.02.)

This has to be the saddest thing I have read in a long time.

 

[x_files]

Such a mystery! Where I live in a Third World country now, kids are mainstreamed into all classrooms. It does not matter how disruptive they are.

They watch even more violent movies and play more violent games because they have access to games and movies from Asia which are far more violent.

They take psychotropic drugs. They are bullied. Their parents get divorced or simply leave for a new love interest.

There is high high unemployment. There is a lot of DV and child sex abuse. There is a lot of alcoholism and use of marijuana. Some use of meth but it is hard to get.

But not one school shooting so far. What could possibly be the difference?

meth, unfortunately, is easy to get.

 

[K_Z]

Devon Erickson mug shot.

The other suspect, 16-year-old Alec McKinney, will now be charged as an adult, Brauchler said. Court documents show McKinney also faces 48 counts.

K-12 Stem Highland students are returning to school.

A week after the deadly attack, students at the K-12 school are easing their way back to their regular class schedules.

Elementary-aged students are back to school for a half day Wednesday, according to a letter sent to parents. "Mental health support staff will be available onsite," the school said.

Students from 6th through 12th grades can come back Wednesday to pick up personal items left behind, though some belongings "will not be accessible due to law enforcement restrictions," the school said.

Secondary students will return to class on a modified schedule starting Thursday.

But the school stressed that families can make their own decisions about returning to school.

"We want to respect the healing process for each of our community members," the school said.

1 Colorado shooting suspect faces 48 counts

 

[K_Z]

Graduation for Stem Highlands to be hosted by Denver Broncos.

On Thursday, the Denver Broncos stepped in to help.

The STEM school in Highland Ranch, Colorado, where the shooting took place on May 7, reached out to the Broncos last week to ask if they could hold its graduation ceremonies at the team’s practice facility, according to The Athletic’s Nicki Jhabvala.

Naturally, the team was all for it.

“We told them we’d be happy to help the school, the students and their families in any way possible,” Patrick Smyth, the Broncos’ executive vice president of public and community relations, told The Athletic.

So, once Broncos players had cleared out after practice Thursday, students and families from the STEM school filled in to the UCHealth Training Center for senior honor night and a kindergarten graduation ceremony. A second graduation ceremony will be held there on Monday night, too.

Broncos host graduation for Colorado STEM school after school shooting

 

[K_Z]

Multiple sources with knowledge of the investigation, who are not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, say the mother of 18-year-old alleged shooter Devon Erickson suffered significant mental health challenges just days before her son allegedly brought guns, stolen from his house, to STEM School Highlands Ranch.

New info paints picture of shooting suspects' childhoods

 

[MyBelle]

Oh yes. Grandma's china cabinet was more off limits than the gun cabinet!! But it is odd how back in those days (really not that long ago) mom and dad telling us to not touch was enough. We just didn't think twice about it. I'm not sure how that changed.

I think it is a combination of several things but lack of parental supervision and real consequences for actions ranks at the top. It's difficult enough to parent a teen when one is married. I can't imagine the difficulty for those trying to do it alone. What concerns me about this case is the school wasn't listening to the parental concerns. That's shockingly arrogant on their part.

Too many kids go home to empty houses and get on the computer for video games or social media or both. Kids with behavior problems hang out with other kids with behavior problems and become friends either at school or on the Internet. I think we have way too many dysfunctional families with angry children in the U.S., not enough mental health resources and schools that have become way too big to be safe. On top of all that, is the Internet's easy access in the U.S. with angry teens looking for something they can control. Soon, it becomes a recipe for disaster.

JMO

 

[human]

I think it is a combination of several things but lack of parental supervision and real consequences for actions ranks at the top. It's difficult enough to parent a teen when one is married. I can't imagine the difficulty for those trying to do it alone. What concerns me about this case is the school wasn't listening to the parental concerns. That's shockingly arrogant on their part.

Too many kids go home to empty houses and get on the computer for video games or social media or both. Kids with behavior problems hang out with other kids with behavior problems and become friends either at school or on the Internet. I think we have way too many dysfunctional families with angry children in the U.S., not enough mental health resources and schools that have become way too big to be safe. On top of all that, is the Internet's easy access in the U.S. with angry teens looking for something they can control. Soon, it becomes a recipe for disaster.

JMO

This is the way it is all over the world

 

[K_Z]

We're in kind of a lull in the case till the next court appearance, which is June 7, IIRC. Then we will know more about how this criminal process will play out for them.

McKinney and Erickson will almost certainly receive life in prison for these crimes, whether they plead or go to trial. Prosecutors will probably cut the 48 charges down to a handful of the most serious felonies.

Colorado First-Degree Murder

Capital punishment in Colorado - Wikipedia

I don't think prosecutors will pursue the DP in CO due to their ages (it may not be constitutional for the 16 year old anyway), and the other myriad issues with a protracted DP case. It just isn't necessary here, IMO. The expense in this case, IMO, isn't worth it. I'd rather see them both convicted or plead guilty cleanly, and limit the appeals process.

They are definitely not getting out of custody anytime in the next 3-4 decades, or longer. That may not have fully sunk in for either of them yet, or their families. The most compassionate thing the system can do for them both now, IMO, is to help them and their families accept this reality of life in prison, as soon as legally possible. There is no way either of these teens is getting out of prison before they are very old. Their "free" lives are over.

I don't know if the 16 year old is eligible to plead guilty, since the crimes have LWOP as the likely penalty? Anyone know? I can't find much on that. (Wasn't there also a SCOTUS ruling that if convicted under a certain age, an offender sentenced to life in prison has to have some chance at parole someday?)

Whether they go to trial or plead, each of them are facing many decades in prison -- probably at least 30-50+ years in prison, even if they are somehow eventually eligible for parole due to their young ages.

IMO, there is no way either of these shooters would be found not guilty at trials. There is an overwhelming amount of direct evidence obvious to everyone, even without the case files unsealed yet. This is not a situation where there is some doubt about who the murderers are, and what they did. There are dozens of witnesses, and likely security video as well. They were caught in the act of intentionally attempting to rampage murder dozens of innocent students and staff in a school. There is no reasonable or legitimate self defense here. No evidence of insanity or diminished capacity. There is essentially no defense here, IMO, unless they want to play the "not guilty" game to drag it out.

IMO, the sooner we get this over with, and get them started on their lifetime incarceration, the better for the victims, the community, and yes, better for the shooters. Let's get the shooters adjusted to their new long term reality as soon as legally possible, IMO.

The only thing really left to decide or argue about is which prison to send each of them to.

 

[K_Z]

I think it is a combination of several things but lack of parental supervision and real consequences for actions ranks at the top. It's difficult enough to parent a teen when one is married. I can't imagine the difficulty for those trying to do it alone. What concerns me about this case is the school wasn't listening to the parental concerns. That's shockingly arrogant on their part.

Too many kids go home to empty houses and get on the computer for video games or social media or both. Kids with behavior problems hang out with other kids with behavior problems and become friends either at school or on the Internet. I think we have way too many dysfunctional families with angry children in the U.S., not enough mental health resources and schools that have become way too big to be safe. On top of all that, is the Internet's easy access in the U.S. with angry teens looking for something they can control. Soon, it becomes a recipe for disaster.

JMO

Those who are "good" parents and citizens, of their own motivations, will continue to be that way. Many are still good parents and good citizens, thankfully. But IMO, we are collecting (or producing) more and more antisocial people at all socioeconomic levels of our society. Being antisocial is no longer to be an outlier.

Those that are inclined to be antisocial, we can never rehabilitate, or assimilate, IMO. There is no longer any kind of social glue, common values, holding us all together, IMO. We have a very limited legal and societal ability to formally identify the antisocial among us, monitor them and try to change their behavior, until they commit horrific crimes. We dump millions and millions of dollars into mandated social monitoring and therapy programs, and all we really have to show for it is even more highly dysfunctional people in those programs every year.

I may value teaching my kids to work hard in school, trying their best to learn, being kind, treating others with respect, behaving respectfully to teachers, helping their neighbors and in their community, following the rules, etc. Many others (parents and kids) clearly don't support those kind of values and behaviors, and value more strongly broad based opposition and defiance toward anything or anyone perceived as "authority". They value aggression, revenge, and continuous rebellion toward things like academic achievement, rules, and laws. They are toxic narcissists. They are takers, not givers. They are deluded into believing they are perpetual victims of non-existent "oppressions", and thus are justified in their aggression, defiance, and antisocial behavior. IMO, these kind of attitudes are a metastasizing cancer in our society.

This is the hard, hard price we pay for the rights, freedoms, tolerance, and openness of our country. IMO. These same rights and liberties make it impossible to identify, monitor, and limit the behaviors of the antisocial and criminal misfits in our midst, until they do something so heinous, hurting and killing other people, that we finally can try to remove them from society. It's depressing. The positive and good rights, ideas, and values that make our society the greatest and most unique country in the world, could also ultimately destroy us from within. Kids killing other kids in school classrooms is a just a symptom of that metastasizing cancer.

 

[human]

Other countries have those issues. Other countries have rights and freedoms.

Unless someone lives in a war zone, kids are not worried about getting shot. I am imagine that leads to a lot of anxiety with children.

I wonder how many think about whether or not they should be the one to sacrifice their life for others.

 

[SouthAussie]

Those who are "good" parents and citizens, of their own motivations, will continue to be that way. Many are still good parents and good citizens, thankfully. But IMO, we are collecting (or producing) more and more antisocial people at all socioeconomic levels of our society. Being antisocial is no longer to be an outlier.

Those that are inclined to be antisocial, we can never rehabilitate, or assimilate, IMO. There is no longer any kind of social glue, common values, holding us all together, IMO. We have a very limited legal and societal ability to formally identify the antisocial among us, monitor them and try to change their behavior, until they commit horrific crimes. We dump millions and millions of dollars into mandated social monitoring and therapy programs, and all we really have to show for it is even more highly dysfunctional people in those programs every year.

I may value teaching my kids to work hard in school, trying their best to learn, being kind, treating others with respect, behaving respectfully to teachers, helping their neighbors and in their community, following the rules, etc. Many others (parents and kids) clearly don't support those kind of values and behaviors, and value more strongly broad based opposition and defiance toward anything or anyone perceived as "authority". They value aggression, revenge, and continuous rebellion toward things like academic achievement, rules, and laws. They are toxic narcissists. They are takers, not givers. They are deluded into believing they are perpetual victims of non-existent "oppressions", and thus are justified in their aggression, defiance, and antisocial behavior. IMO, these kind of attitudes are a metastasizing cancer in our society.

This is the hard, hard price we pay for the rights, freedoms, tolerance, and openness of our country. IMO. These same rights and liberties make it impossible to identify, monitor, and limit the behaviors of the antisocial and criminal misfits in our midst, until they do something so heinous, hurting and killing other people, that we finally can try to remove them from society. It's depressing. The positive and good rights, ideas, and values that make our society the greatest and most unique country in the world, could also ultimately destroy us from within. Kids killing other kids in school classrooms is a just a symptom of that metastasizing cancer.

I appreciate how much thought is being put into this.
I cannot help but point out that the US is not unique in its western-world social makeup. The good parents, the bad parents, values held, values lost, inherent freedoms, tolerances, rights, openness, widespread internet use, latchkey kids, entitled kids, mental illness, drug abuse.

I am not sure how much time others here have spent in other western-world countries, to truly see how we all live ... but these are not unique social issues or ways. The USA is not a unique country.

I lived there for 17 years. I still visit there on annual basis to stay with friends/family. People are the same.

Thinking that the social issues and lifestyle are unique, that nobody else has either of these to the extent that the USA does, is not correct in any way. imo

 

[human]

Some kids have even more freedom.

Years ago my friend’s daughter was an exchange student at a Swedish high school.

One of the activities at a gym type day was strip rope pull. Whichever side would lose the rope pull, that team would have to remove an article of clothing.

In Germany, it was not unusual to see people nude sunbathing in public parks on their lunch hour.

And of course, topless is big in Europe though now it seems the micro thong bikini is what is popular.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am thinking it could be about a lack of respect. For other people's lives, for their own lives, for property, for authority, for necessary rules, for other's opinions ........ I feel that it is up to all influential adults to consistently display and instill that respect.

Combined with a lack of coping mechanisms. How to deal with the seeming unfairness of life at times.

 

[MyBelle]

I appreciate how much thought is being put into this.
I cannot help but point out that the US is not unique in its western-world social makeup. The good parents, the bad parents, values held, values lost, inherent freedoms, tolerances, rights, openness, widespread internet use, latchkey kids, entitled kids, mental illness, drug abuse.

I am not sure how much time others here have spent in other western-world countries, to truly see how we all live ... but these are not unique social issues or ways. The USA is not a unique country.

I lived there for 17 years. I still visit there on annual basis to stay with friends/family. People are the same.

Thinking that the social issues and lifestyle are unique, that nobody else has either of these to the extent that the USA does, is not correct in any way. imo

BBM. I disagree. The population of the U.S. is 300+ million. I can't think of any other country that provides free health care, law enforcement, public schooling and other social services on the scale that the U.S. provides. We are a nation of immigrants and many in recent years are from country cultures where violence toward women and the LGBT community is still widely accepted. One of the STEM shooters was raised in a household of extreme domestic violence and identifies as transgender. The other was coping with a mentally ill mother. Apparently neither family was on the radar of the STEM School's psychologist and both should have been.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM. I disagree. The population of the U.S. is 300+ million. I can't think of any other country that provides free health care, law enforcement, public schooling and other social services on the scale that the U.S. provides. We are a nation of immigrants and many in recent years are from country cultures where violence toward women and the LGBT community is still widely accepted. One of the STEM shooters was raised in a household of extreme domestic violence and identifies as transgender. The other was coping with a mentally ill mother. Apparently neither family was on the radar of the STEM School's psychologist and both should have been.

JMO

Perhaps try looking at it on a per capita basis.

 

[Colorado303]

LE released the probable cause arrest affadavits for STEM School shooters today. I haven’t found the actual affadavit yet but highlights from linked article below and 10:00 pm 6/20 local ABC newscast include:

1. The juvenile suspect (AM) had been planning the attack for several weeks as revenge against specific students who he said had bullied him for his gender transition and the school as a whole.

2). DE was unaware of the plot until he received a Snapchat from AM the prior day mtelling DE not to go to school because he was going to hurt people

3). DE went to school anyway. AM asked to go to DE’s house for lunch where AM did cocaine.

4). Both boys sat AM threatened DE w/an axe and made him open the gun safe. After getting the guns both boys did coke (DE claims he took it becaise AM threatened him if he wouldn’t). He made DE go with him back to school and told him he would let him live if he pulled a gun in the class.

5). The classroom they entered was specifically chosen by AM because students he was targeting were in there

6). DE said he never intended to pull the trigger but the gun went off when he was tackled by students. That was the first shot. DE said he was on the ground when he heard more shots

7). AM said he shot until one gun was empty, took another gun and shot until it was empty too, then was tackled by students and a teacher but escaped with a third gun

8). AM says he planned to shoot himself with the 3rd gun but couldn’t figure out how to work the safety. He was then caught by an officer.

9). DE says he was on his way to the office to report AM’s plans but had a panic attack and went into the bathroom. When he came out AM was waiting and threatened him if he didn’t go directly back to the classroom.

10). ABC’s synopsis doesn’t say which boy fired the fatal shot, but I assume it was DE since his gun went off when he was tackled and AM wasn’t tackled until he was out of ammunition.



Affidavit: Juvenile suspect planned STEM School shooting

 

[Colorado303]

STEM Shooter Probable Cause Affadavit:

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/18th_Judicial_District/18th_Courts/2019CR451/Redated PC_Redacted.pdf

 

[PrairieWind]

DE has to be the biggest idiot in the world.

 

[Elley Mae]

The transgender student accused of shooting up a Colorado school told police that he wanted other students to “suffer from trauma like he had to in his life.”


Snip

McKinney also said that he has had suicidal and homicidal thoughts since the age of 12.

.....

To bad she didn’t.


Colorado STEM shooter says he targeted students over criticism about being transgender