Found Deceased CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3

[Seenit]

If Molly were still alive today I think she would be up on the stand lol. RIP Molly. You were amazing.

Job well done, Sweet Molly.

 

[Cindizzi]

REDWINE TRIAL: Electronic forensics, cadaver dog experts take the stand in Redwine trial

 

[Warwick7]

Defense came in hot:

So you took your dog to Middle Mt, to the area where things were already discovered, correct?

As for the great experiment, As I understand it, these items were placed in bags, in Area 51, all 6 ft apart---and Molly alerts to 2 bags...they are taken off the floor, then she is brought back and she alerts to the other one, after that, Molly sniffs the shoes again, AFTER LOOKING AT YOU...and then alerts...

Then the final items are taken out of bags, put on butcher paper, and she sniffs, looks you in the eyes, then alerts on the jeans,

then same thing with green shirt...but she walks away

What the dog is doing is alerting on one, not the other, BUT the blue shirt and green shirt had been in the same bag together for months....WHY NOT?

Witness:
That is peculiar...

Defense: I am sorry, but this seems like a false alert, dogs do make mistakes, right?

witness---definition of false alert is if they alert and there is no odor of human remains....

[so this would not be a false alert then]

defense: dogs make mistakes, right, they get bored, distracted etc...

Witness: Yes, we need to use extreme caution, considering the importance of the information derived

 

[Warwick7]

Defense getting weird and snarky now with this witness. Kind of berating her and trying to dismiss HRD training--basically saying that just because a dog might alert, it doesn't mean it is about a death. Could be 'remains' of a living human, like hair or blood, etc...

Defense: 1st responders can drag 'smells' of dead people with them into Mark's cabin-correct?

Also, false alerts can happen, and cueing can distort findings...and residual scents

W: Correct

D: and dogs can have bad days, they aren't perfect...

W: correct

D: [now he is basically saying it is generally unreliable and not scientific]

W: [witness disagrees]...Says National Certification can weed out unreliable teams

Pros asks for sidebar objection:

Defense: asking her about her certification---how was she certified? isn't there a big difference between a new death and a 6 month old corpse?

W: yes...

Defense: What about double blind? You are using single blind certification though, correct?

W: there are pros and cons to double blind...

Defense: [now he goes on a blistering rant about how many of the certified working dogs are incompetent---and how many just read cues from handlers instead of really sniffing the chemicals out---

W: Yes, that research showed that can happen..

Defense: Not surprising because dogs are chosen for being connected well to their handlers...

W: yes...

Defense---so what happened HERE, is you knew the boy had gone missing from this location, right...and your dog indicated there were human remains, in several spots, is that a coincidence...

W: is that a question?

Defense: Yes, you are getting what I am trying to say...

W: I can't help you with that, I had her off leash, doing her regular routine and her process...That is all I can tell you...

Defense: Sometimes Drug dogs alert on a car and no drugs are found so it is a false positive...
[ I disagree---it just might mean the drugs have been moved already]

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think that the defense is doing a good job on cross with the HRD dog handler. It's clear to me it's impossible for this witness to state that Molly alerted to the odor of Dylan Redwine's dead body and not some other source.

When the defense gets one of their experts on the stand it will be even more clear IMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Dog handler Carren testified about handling human remains during a training session and then touching a door handle while wearing the same gloves. Her dog alerted on the door handle, demonstrating how easy it is to transfer the odor of human decomposition from one object to another.

That made me think about her testimony about the green and blue shirt that were stored in the same bag. Molly alerted to the blue shirt but not to the green one. All Carren could say was that it was peculiar.

She didn't explain why that happened. She did testify that when an HRD dog doesn't alert on a valid human decomp target it's okay. It's not the same as a false alert where a HRD dog alerts when there is no target odor.

I see it differently. If an HRD dog doesn't alert to a target odor when it should it makes me want to know why. Did the dog just not feel like doing it. Is the dog confused?

That makes me question Molly's ability to accurately alert to the odor of decomposing human remains in this case. JMO

 

[Cindizzi]

Drug dogs false alert over 200 times in UC Davis study

Drug dogs false alert over 200 times in UC Davis study - NORML

The study was on 18 K9 Police dog/handler teams trained to detect drugs, explosives or both. Not HRD or cadaver dogs.

In other words, at best, dogs are responding to the subtle non-verbal cues of their masters to find drugs or explosives where the human thinks there should be drugs or explosives. The cop suspects you have pot so his body language makes the dog alert. At worst, the cop is purposefully cuing his dog to alert when he wants a handy excuse to violate your 4th Amendment rights.

 

[Cindizzi]

Handler beliefs affect scent detection dog outcomes

Same study with the 18 drug/ explosive trained K9s.

The present study attempted to determine whether handler beliefs of target scent location would affect outcomes in scent detection dog searches. Importantly, this study was not evaluating abilities of these detection dogs to detect their target scents. Because all dogs were certified, many with confirmed deployment finds their ability to correctly locate target scent was considered to be previously established. Therefore, in order to evaluate outcomes solely based on handler beliefs and expectations, this study was designed so that any alert issued would be a “false” alert; that is, there was no target scent present in any searches conducted for the purposes of this study.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The study was on 18 K9 Police dog/handler teams trained to detect drugs, explosives or both. Not HRD or cadaver dogs.

In other words, at best, dogs are responding to the subtle non-verbal cues of their masters to find drugs or explosives where the human thinks there should be drugs or explosives. The cop suspects you have pot so his body language makes the dog alert. At worst, the cop is purposefully cuing his dog to alert when he wants a handy excuse to violate your 4th Amendment rights.

Yes I know. Same scientific principles apply. Just a different target odor. That's why this study was allowed to be brought up in court today.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I read about the UC Davis study a long time ago and it doesn't surprise me that it was used in this case because it is very enlightening.

It does have it's limitations that I'm sure the prosecution will bring up during Re-direct.

 

[Cindizzi]

Yes I know. Same scientific principles apply. Just a different target odor. That's why this study was allowed to be brought up in court today.

I’m anxious to hear more about the 6 cars at the impound that Molly indicated that 2 had scent of human remains. Prosecution said they will have another witness address that. If Carren, the handler had no details how could she cue or influence her dog on those? Defense probably did sow some doubt with the Jury. Luckily the State has much more evidence that MR and only MR ended his son’s life.
JMO/MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I’m anxious to hear more about the 6 cars at the impound that Molly indicated that 2 had scent of human remains. Prosecution said they will have another witness address that. If Carren, the handler had no details how could she cue or influence her dog on those? Defense probably did sow some doubt with the Jury. Luckily the State has much more evidence that MR and only MR ended his son’s life.
JMO/MOO

I think the State has a very good case showing the jury that Mark Redwine is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

So far the State has not impressed me with the blood evidence and I'm prejudiced against scent detection dogs alerts as evidence because of personal research but that's just me.

I'll be very surprised if the State loses this one. JMO.

 

[Cindizzi]

I think the State has a very good case showing the jury that Mark Redwine is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

So far the State has not impressed me with the blood evidence and I'm prejudiced against scent detection dogs alerts as evidence because of personal research but that's just me.

I'll be very surprised if the State loses this one. JMO.

Yes I thought the blood evidence was very anticlimactic. Seems like expert witnesses on blood/DNA evidence give WAY too much detailed and thorough explanations than a lay person can really comprehend. I went back to listen to the opening statements again. The audio was horrible that first day of trial. Defense said something like “ they are going to tell you that the house was covered in blood, like the elevator door in the Shining opened, but the amount was actually the size of a small percentage of a grain of salt ( or sand) “. I couldn’t believe he said that !

 

[Warwick7]

^^rsbm

I think MR was up all night moving around-- beginning about 8:30 pm when Dylan made his last FB msg/text. MOO

Exactly!

 

[Cindizzi]

Redwine trial: Handler tells where dog smelled traces of remains
DURANGO — A dog handler who brought a K9 named Molly to Mark Redwine’s home months after his 13-year-old son Dylan’s disappearance said the animal indicated there could have been human remains on the first floor.

“I would say there was a large source of human remains odor in my experience,” said Carren Gummin, the founder of a company called Canine Search Solutions.

She was on the witness stand for hours Tuesday morning and afternoon during the first day of the third week of Mark Redwine’s trial. He is charged with second-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death.

Gummin’s testimony was riddled with objections from the defense, which took issue with multiple exhibits and discussions about the accuracy of cadaver dogs. The dispute between the attorneys led to two afternoon breaks and multiple bench conferences.
Redwine trial: Handler tells where dog smelled traces of remains

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, July 7th:
*Trial continues (Day 12) (@ 8am MT) - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine (13) (last seen alive Nov. 18, 2012 when he arrived at airport, reported missing on Nov. 19, 2012, Vallecito; found about 8 miles up Middle Mountain Road, a dirt road that cuts through the San Juan National Forest, about 100 yards from the road, directly off an ATV trail on June 27, 2013 & Nov. 1, 2015 his skull was found by hikers about 1.5 miles thru rough terrain from where his remains were found, by road 5 miles.) - *Mark Allen Redwine (50 @ time of crime/55/now 59), "father" indicted (7/20/17), arrested (7/21/17 in Bellingham, WA) & charged (7/21/17) with 2nd degree murder & child abuse resulting in death. Plead not guilty. $750K bond.
Jury Trial began on 10/29/20 with jury selection & ended 11/5/20 after Judge Wilson declared mistrial on 11/9/20.
Re-Trial began on 6/14/21 with jury selection & ended 6/21/21 selecting the final 16 & trial started with opening statements in the afternoon on 6/21/21 (thru 8/2/21). 12 jurors & 4 alternates (11 men & 5 women).
Previous court hearings from 9/10/17 thru 10/27/20 & Jury Selection (Day 1-6) 10/29/20 to 11/5/20 & 11/9/20 & info to 5/18/21 to 6/11/21 & new jury selection (Day 1-6) 6/14/21 to 6/21/21 & trial (Day 1-10) 6/21/21 to 7/2/21 reference post #6 here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
7/6/21 Tuesday, Trial Day 11: State witnesses: Chuck Heidel returns on stand for re-direct from State. Google Earth map master & an investigator with the Boulder County DA's office. Patrick "Seus" Beyer, was working with La Plata County Sheriff's Office (currently with US Secret Service) works on digital evidence.
See posts #10 to 13 & 17 to 20 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Patrick "Seus" Beyer continued. Carren Corcoran-Gummin. LE background, founded K9 Search Solutions. Worked with Patrol dog handlers. Retired 30 years police officer Madison WI. K9 handler.
See posts #21 to 25, 27, 29, 32 to 39 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Carren Corcoran-Gummin continued.
See posts #41, 43 to 45, 52, 56 to 59 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Carren Corcoran-Gummin continued.
See posts #68, 70 to 71, 76, 78 & 79 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Carren Corcoran-Gummin continued.
See posts #82, 83, 86, 87, 89 to 93 & 97 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Carren Corcoran-Gummin continued.
See posts #103, 104 to 106, 109 to 112, 114 to 117 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Carren Corcoran-Gummin continued.
See posts 122 to 126 & 136 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Trial continues on 7/7/21.

 

[asyousay]

I was super busy yesterday so was it a good day for Dylan?

 

[scandinavian girl]

 

[mothwings]

I hope the judge turns the camera a bit so we can see the look on the monster's face when convicted. I wish his facial expressions were viewable. Even if just for the verdict.

 

[asyousay]

I hope the judge turns the camera a bit so we can see the look on the monster's face when convicted. I wish his facial expressions were viewable. Even if just for the verdict.

He surely can not think he is getting away with this. My theory has always been he just wants the attention and to drag out the pain and suffering for as long as possible.


He knows once they throw away the key nobody will visit him or care anymore. The pain for Elaine and the family will never fully fade but they can heal knowing the man responsible can no longer hurt them.