Found Deceased CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3

[Warwick7]

Continued updates:

Ok back, rephrasing my question:
Pros: at the time you proffered your report you also looked at the map--how did it help ...

W: seeing it's remote location and how far the skull had moved...

What injuries did you see?

---Fractures, peri-mortem--sustained during life---but immediately before death[no regrowth of bone seen]
---Defects that appears to be from incised wound, from sharp instrument

ex 374---show the jury what you were looking at please[points to 2 linear fractures]

they do not look like post mortem fractures because they are not perfectly linear---living connective tissue and collagen affect how things fracture...

consistent w/blunt force injury

[this microphone sucks, it drops out every other word]

P :So Dylan had peri-mortem skull fractures from blunt force trauma?
How could these fractures come about?

Objection---too much speculation needed...

moving on:
Ex 382--this depicts inner view of bones, fracture from inside

Defense: Can we have 30 seconds please...

back--

P:How much blood from a fracture like this?

W: often there can be bleeding contained inside skull, sub-dural hematoma or maybe a deep bruise, with very little blood escaping, but still can be life threatening

did you also see post mortem predation?

Yes, here in Ex379: linear striations, looks like animals scratching/gnawing here

Ex 370, 372--right side of cranium, ear canal area--2 linear defects to that arch --parallel to each other--wedge shaped coming to acute defect---peri-mortem injury

[ I dont get what he is saying---is it a bite mark? a cut mark?]

ex 389---please admit this to evidence---

15 minute break

 

[Cindizzi]

Dylan Redwine of Monument died by homicide, expert testifies

On Wednesday, Kurtzman, who studied Dylan's remains and other evidence, said Dylan's skull had two fractures that likely occurred near the time when the 13-year-old died. Those fractures "can be associated with blunt force injury,” he said.

Two other markings on the child's skull have distinct characteristics of a knife wound inflicted around the time Dylan died, Kurtzman said.

"I'm very confident that those are cut marks," he said.

 

[Bravo]

Night all. Be safe. Be kind.

 

[Warwick7]

after break:

Witness: This defect in the bone --I believe a sharp edged instrument cut thru the bone, peri-mortem

ex 390---2nd defect, parallel to previous, also from sharp edged instrument

Ex 375---there are post mortem bite marks visible here--[ mic is horrible, so I can't make out his full explanation]

consistent w/canine tooth striation, post-mortem

Defense:
Have you had opportunity to look at scavenger marks on bones during your career?

YES, hundreds of times

Typically when processing remains found in remote areas. / We must then process the bones to differentiate the types of injuries

Defense---Objection he has not been qualified in tool mark pathology

Judge-overuled, I think he is qualified


-- asks how he could possibly tell the difference between animals making injuries and humans---

Witness then gives very authoritative, detailed answer, lol



So you stated that you cannot give an exact cause of death? Why not doctor?

W: most of the remains are absent, no chest or heart or organs, so I cannot be explicit, without full information, all I can say is there were head injuries

DEFENSE up--sounds like you came in nov 2017, after others began the forensics

Correct

D: your examination was at behest of DA, 4 yrs after previous examinations done, and after Mr Redwine was arrested, correct?

Correct

D: and much of your examination was based upon Dr Franz's report and photos, correct?

Correct

D: and you also used maps and photos and AA of Law Enforcement, relied upon their info, correct?

correct

D: also relied upon documents and data produced by Law Enforcement, and their photos and luminal tests?

Correct

D: so out of the 12 things you relied upon, 10 prepared by LE, 1 by another doctor, and 1 on your own investigation, correct

W: Correct, except that it is usually that way because...

D: I think you answered completely. no need to add anything else here...

D--Adding photos from Dr Franz's report...

D: The report you relied upon said there were many scavenging injuries, correct

W: I like to inform my own opinion, and that was her opinion, I like to express my own...

D: Dr if we look on the left, that was in Dr F's report , that puncture mark is shown also,
could you show us ...

W: yes, the defect is right about here...

D: can you explain to the jury what this portion here is?

W:Yes the anterior portion, along the upper cheekbone

D; can you estimate the distance from the bite marks to the defect?

W: 1 inch to 1 and a half
D: you testified about this photo previously...

W: I used a different photo because this one has discolouration

D: this is an irregular fracture , a suture where two bones come together in growth?

W: a naturally occurring phenamoin which Gert stronger as one matures...

D:Safe to say an adolescent sutures are weaker than adults, so any fracture follows path of least resistance

W : correct but depends upon how much force used

 

[Warwick7]

D; you didn't see any depression fractures in any of the remains, correct?

W: yes, but not all the bones were recovered

D: Dr Franz found many striations from scavengers, correct?

W: yes

D: you mentioned that the casting process done by Dr Franz remained upon cranium and affected the area..

W: yes, but I can tell the difference

D: How can you be sure what you are looking at...

W: there is a difference between natural cranium and what is left over from casting process...[goes into detail here..]

D: [shows picture and says point out the casting material in the photo]

W: I can see bright white area, flecks of blue, and areas where cranium is not smooth and even, where casting material is covering it

 

[Warwick7]

ex 1768: Defense asks him again to point out casting material left on bone

[over and over, more pix, -- for some reason Defense belabouring the point]

D: Again asks Dr to point out how he can tell the difference...

[Seems defense trying to get jury to believe that they cannot trust the Dr's conclusion that there were cuts to the skull and fractures, etc]

W: Dr. again points out the fractures and cuts, and then differentiates the casting materials from the actual skull in the picture


D: safe to say Dr Franz photos shows semi-circle here and not a feature left--bone is gone, flaked off

W: yes, this is a curved surface, if I were to shave a apple part way, and look at it, ...[interrupted]

D: but you testified earlier today, that piece of bone was missing,

W correct

D:you believe it was a post mortem injury--flaking off, and you knew it was Dylan Redwine case, and you knew thew detectives wanted your report..

OBJECTION

W: I did note that this defect seemed different from the first photos Dr Franz took, with the bone showing...

D: I want to talk about the capacity you came in to the case--

W: Jan Smith first spoke to me days after the discovery of remains, but was not referred to me until after CBI was done w/examination-- nov 2017

D: you want the remains to be in pristine condition, correct

W: once remains are skeletonized, a forensic antrhropologist is often given the bones first


D_ didnt 4 others do exams first?

W: yes, I believe so

D: you used 'urgent' but years earlier you said it was a 'rush'...going to impeach Dr here...

OBJECTION---they mean the same thing your Honor...

Judge, move on Defense, ...


Objection:

Defense: But judge, he' full throated' endorsed Dr Franz and I want to compare his definition of peri-miortem to hers

• judge---no move on please...

---now another side bar about dr Franz and her report


D: you cannot say what kind of instrument would make that cut?

W: no, not exactly, but a narrower blade most likely

D: about the head injury, you were not specific

W: there are several possibilities---

D: what kind would produce the most blood,

W: but without seeing the skin ..I couldn't say for sure,

D: dont head injuries bleed a lot?

W: if there is a cut associated with the injury yes


D: you cannot say if this fracture was the cause of death?

W: again, I dont know why Dylan died when he did. I don't have enough of his remains to make that w/certainty.

The skull fractures did contribute to his death but cannot say it was only cause. Manner of death is homicide, the 'cause' I will never know.


Pros: you wanted to answer more fully an earlier question...

W: yes, I wanted to say it was not unusual to be given all of the surrounding circumstances, of the body found, when beginning my examination. I dont like to work in a vacuum. I need to make my own conclusion but do need all of the circumstantial info to do so.

Pros: are their any animals or natural circumstances that could have caused those two cuts in his skull?

W: No, not that I know of.

 

[Warwick7]

Continued updates:

Ok back, rephrasing my question:
Pros: at the time you proffered your report you also looked at the map--how did it help ...

W: seeing it's remote location and how far the skull had moved...

What injuries did you see?

---Fractures, peri-mortem--sustained during life---but immediately before death[no regrowth of bone seen]
---Defects that appears to be from incised wound, from sharp instrument

ex 374---show the jury what you were looking at please[points to 2 linear fractures]

they do not look like post mortem fractures because they are not perfectly linear---living connective tissue and collagen affect how things fracture...

consistent w/blunt force injury

[this microphone sucks, it drops out every other word]

P :So Dylan had peri-mortem skull fractures from blunt force trauma?
How could these fractures come about?

Objection---too much speculation needed...

moving on:
Ex 382--this depicts inner view of bones, fracture from inside

Defense: Can we have 30 seconds please...

back--

P:How much blood from a fracture like this?

W: often there can be bleeding contained inside skull, sub-dural hematoma or maybe a deep bruise, with very little blood escaping, but still can be life threatening

did you also see post mortem predation?

Yes, here in Ex379: linear striations, looks like animals scratching/gnawing here

Ex 370, 372--right side of cranium, ear canal area--2 linear defects to that arch --parallel to each other--wedge shaped coming to acute defect---peri-mortem injury

[ I dont get what he is saying---is it a bite mark? a cut mark?]

ex 389---please admit this to evidence---

15 minute break

When we first heard about Dylan I told my husband that MR probably cold cocked him so hard it gave Dylan an epidural hematoma and he died from it.

My daughter was in a car accident where the vehicle rolled and the roof crushed her skull. Long story short she was in immediate danger of dying. She still has the scar from the surgery, but she is alive.

This witness talks about subdural hematoma. They, yes, are slightly different. Difference lies in where the blood is bleeding out into after the skull is crushed or fractured. But bottom line, is either is acquired by the skull being crushed, fractured or beaten.

Now add:
---Defects that appears to be from incised wound, from sharp instrument...

 

[sleuther0192837465]

When we first heard about Dylan I told my husband that MR probably cold cocked him so hard it gave Dylan an epidural hematoma and he died from it.

My daughter was in a car accident where the vehicle rolled and the roof crushed her skull. Long story short she was in immediate danger of dying. She still has the scar from the surgery, but she is alive.

This witness talks about subdural hematoma. They, yes, are slightly different. Difference lies in where the blood is bleeding out into after the skull is crushed or fractured. But bottom line, is either is acquired by the skull being crushed, fractured or beaten.

Now add:
---Defects that appears to be from incised wound, from sharp instrument...

I’m so sorry that happened to your daughter and I am glad she survived the accident!
If MR punched Dylan, what is this sharp instrument that created the marks? What do you think happened?
(Thank you for the detailed updates)

 

[Cindizzi]

When we first heard about Dylan I told my husband that MR probably cold cocked him so hard it gave Dylan an epidural hematoma and he died from it.

My daughter was in a car accident where the vehicle rolled and the roof crushed her skull. Long story short she was in immediate danger of dying. She still has the scar from the surgery, but she is alive.

This witness talks about subdural hematoma. They, yes, are slightly different. Difference lies in where the blood is bleeding out into after the skull is crushed or fractured. But bottom line, is either is acquired by the skull being crushed, fractured or beaten.

Now add:
---Defects that appears to be from incised wound, from sharp instrument...

I’m so glad your daughter survived. Thanks for sharing that and for all your great posts.

 

[Cindizzi]

I’m guessing that the Defense will have their own expert witness to discuss the skull and say all the damage is from animals. Look at #8 and 9 on this document for how they are saying the State damaged it.
But first read #2 where they say that DA Champagne compared Mr. Bogan to a dog because he “barked in his face”. lol

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...cial_District/La_Plata/Redwine/Reply D111.pdf

 

[Warwick7]

I’m so glad your daughter survived. Thanks for sharing that and for all your great posts.

My posts are a accumulation of other people listening intently at the trial. I'm just get to share their awesome work.
:0)

 

[Niner]

Thursday, July 8th:
*Trial continues (Day 13) (@ 8am MT) - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine (13) (last seen alive Nov. 18, 2012 when he arrived at airport, reported missing on Nov. 19, 2012, Vallecito; found about 8 miles up Middle Mountain Road, a dirt road that cuts through the San Juan National Forest, about 100 yards from the road, directly off an ATV trail on June 27, 2013 & Nov. 1, 2015 his skull was found by hikers about 1.5 miles thru rough terrain from where his remains were found, by road 5 miles.) - *Mark Allen Redwine (50 @ time of crime/55/now 59), "father" indicted (7/20/17), arrested (7/21/17 in Bellingham, WA) & charged (7/21/17) with 2nd degree murder & child abuse resulting in death. Plead not guilty. $750K bond.
Jury Trial began on 10/29/20 with jury selection & ended 11/5/20 after Judge Wilson declared mistrial on 11/9/20.
Re-Trial began on 6/14/21 with jury selection & ended 6/21/21 selecting the final 16 & trial started with opening statements in the afternoon on 6/21/21 (thru 8/2/21). 12 jurors & 4 alternates (11 men & 5 women).
Previous court hearings from 9/10/17 thru 10/27/20 & Jury Selection (Day 1-6) 10/29/20 to 11/5/20 & 11/9/20 & info to 5/18/21 to 6/11/21 & new jury selection (Day 1-6) 6/14/21 to 6/21/21 & trial (Day 1-11) 6/21/21 to 7/6/21 reference post #136 here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
7/7/21 Wednesday, Trial Day 12: State witnesses: Carren CorcoranGummin returns on the stand for continued cross. Lt. Tom Cowing, La Plata County Sheriff's Office.
See posts #141, 142, 144, 146, 148 to 150, 153 to 160 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Lt. Tom Cowing continued. Dr. Robert Kurtzman, ME Forensic Pathologist.
See posts #161, 162, 164, 170, 171, 172, 177 to 180 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Lt. Tom Cowing continued & Dr. Robert Kurtzman continued.
See posts #181 to 185, 187 to 189, 191, 195, 197, 198 & 200 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Dr. Robert Kurtzman continued.
See posts #201, 202, 204 to 206 & 210 for more info here:
Found Deceased - CO - Dylan Nicholas Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *father arrested* #3
Trial continues on 7/8/21.

 

[asyousay]

The damage to the skull by a human just adds to his guilt. The Defense can spin it anyway they want i don’t think anybody is buying their crap.



moo

 

[Terrib11]

“ Your Honor, I don’t mean to be a pill “.
Pffft

Boy that ship has already sailed!

 

[mothwings]

He surely can not think he is getting away with this. My theory has always been he just wants the attention and to drag out the pain and suffering for as long as possible.


He knows once they throw away the key nobody will visit him or care anymore. The pain for Elaine and the family will never fully fade but they can heal knowing the man responsible can no longer hurt them.

Well said. There is not a chance he is getting away with this. I still hate the fact he murdered his own son.

 

[mothwings]

I am still catching up parts I've missed but a couple questions:

With the knife marks, are we thinking that these are because Mark chopped his head off? Because otherwise he hit him with a blunt object and returned seconds later with a knife?

Second, what day were the photos shown to the jury or does anyone have a link to the specific video?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

@asyousay and @mothwings You both brought up points about MR dragging this out to hurt Elaine and I agree.

I don’t quite understand court proceedings, so I need to ask. Will MR be able to appeal any of this? I worry that Elaine, Cory and Mike will have to continue to go to court to to keep MR behind bars. Is this going to drag on and on?

 

[shotgun09]

Good morning! Day 13 of trial has started and before jury is present, the judge informs the attorneys that Juror #9 has a fever! Plans for their excuse from jury service are in order, and the rest of the jury will be informed. They do have alternates, so as long as the remaining jurors have no issues, trial will proceed. Of course, the defense stood up with concerns that he was standing near the screen, close to where juror #9 was seated.

 

[shotgun09]

First witness up today: Rae Randolph, a previous defense attorney, and also worked with Search and Rescue Canine units

 

[BUF]

@asyousay and @mothwings You both brought up points about MR dragging this out to hurt Elaine and I agree.

I don’t quite understand court proceedings, so I need to ask. Will MR be able to appeal any of this? I worry that Elaine, Cory and Mike will have to continue to go to court to to keep MR behind bars. Is this going to drag on and on?

No doubt his attorney will file an appeal if convicted (I think he will). The court has to accept or deny an appeal….usually they are denied. Since this is not a death penalty case, those endless appeals won’t happen.

The only problem is that he may be sentenced to a number of years. If any parole hearings come up in the future, I’m sure Elaine, Mike and Cory (and others) will speak at them to help with a parole denial.