CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #14

[katydid23]

But she was obviously doing it in the first place and needed to be told not to. That does not mean it is a joke.
A judge isn't going to tell her not to do it, just for his/her own amusement.

I don't know that it was obvious she was ever driving drunk with the kids. I would have thought MR would have called the cops in that case. I would have if my ex was driving around drunk with my kids.

I think MR might have been making false accusations.

If the judge had any reason to believe that she was ptting the kids in that kind of danger I think he would have taken some stronger action than that '2 year' order. A 2 yr order makes no sense. What happens after 2 yrs? You can start drinking and driving with the kids now?

 

[PaulR]

For all we know, though, MR has had his CDL revoked. I did qualify my assessment with that possibility and I stand by it.

Ransom said [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8626717#post8626717"]earlier[/ame] that they haven't found criminal records for MR (or ER for that matter.) I know DUIs aren't prosecuted criminally but I think many are.

 

[Ransom]

It is a criminal offense to drive drunk with your kids. iT is a felony if you get in a wreck. And you can be arrested even if you don't crash.

Lawdy. Read here: Misdemeanor part......
http://colorado-dui.com/parts/colorado-dui-law/colorado-dui-law.html

Gotta know what state we're talking about and that state is Colorado!!

 

[Seajay]

I was only giving you an accessible place to reference those immersed in the culture.

I grew up in this culture. I've known hundreds of truck drivers over years and years. I've yet to meet ONE who would seriously drink, although I've met many who would joke about it.

It completely goes against everything I've established as a norm in my time. Therefore I spoke to that.

And my opinion remains. If MR was able to hold a CDL for any length of time, I believe he can turn off the need to drink. Because those who drink don't last long in the industry. ZERO tolerance. One time caught, even in your private vehicle or 3 points on your license and your CDL is revoked. That's federal, local police aren't risking themselves covering for these guys.

For all we know, though, MR has had his CDL revoked. I did qualify my assessment with that possibility and I stand by it.

What you say is true. My daughter is general manager of a company where she oversees people who have CDL's. Her best driver, the most productive of them all, who had worked there for 20 years got a DUI one weekend. He immediately got fired and lost his CDL. He had to be replaced immediately. Now my daughter has her CDL to be back up in case something like this happens again. One of her drivers started getting vertigo and she had to take him off the roads until he was cleared by his doctor. He wasn't so she had to get rid of him. ZERO TOLERANCE.

 

[katydid23]

BBM:
A JUDGE issued an order for her to STOP that. Get it? A judge. Not me, nor you, nor some friend... a JUDGE in a court case in 2005 issued a protective order.

That doesn't mean he knew for a fact that it ever happened.

And if he really thought she was routinely drinking and driving with the kids, then he would have known that his 'order' would not have stopped it. She would have been unable to stop cold turkey if she was that far gone.

If he thought she was having a problem liked that, I think he would have ordered rehab or taken the kids or something more serious. JMO

 

[aust amateur slueth]

BBM:
A JUDGE issued an order for her to STOP that. Get it? A judge. Not me, nor you, nor some friend... a JUDGE in a court case in 2005 issued a protective order.

I get that a judge ordered a protective order.

so let me ask this, does the person requesting the protective order have to supply proof, or is it a he said she said thing? is there any proof of such action required to be supplied?

 

[Seajay]

It is a criminal offense to drive drunk with your kids. iT is a felony if you get in a wreck. And you can be arrested even if you don't crash.

In CA, you can get arrested for sitting in the driver's seat drunk listening to your car radio.

 

[katydid23]

Lawdy. Read here: Misdemeanor part......
http://colorado-dui.com/parts/colorado-dui-law/colorado-dui-law.html

Gotta know what state we're talking about and that state is Colorado!!

THE ONE-TWO PUNCH OF DUI AND CHILD ABUSE
Colorado drivers who are arrested for an alcohol-related traffic offense and have a passenger in the car under the age of 16 are likely to get an unpleasant surprise along with their DUI citation: an additional criminal charge for the offense of Child Abuse.

Colorado law defines the crime of child abuse to include circumstances in which a person “unreasonably places a child in a situation that poses a threat of injury.” In many Colorado jurisdictions, elected District Attorneys have decided that this broad language includes the action of driving a vehicle with a BAC over .05 (the lowest limit eligible for DWAI arrest) while a child is a passenger in the car. It doesn’t matter whether the child is the driver’s child or someone else’s. It doesn’t matter whether the driver has the permission of the child’s parent to be riding in the car under the specific circumstances. It doesn’t matter whether the driver is a child himself—such as a 17-year-old driver with a 15-year-old friend in the passenger seat. If the driver is stopped and arrested for an alcohol-related driving offense, the prosecutor will likely charge child abuse as well.

http://www.laszlolaw.com/the-one-two-punch-of-dui-and-child-abuse

 

[OneLove]

I get that a judge ordered a protective order.

so let me ask this, does the person requesting the protective order have to supply proof, or is it a he said she said thing? is there any proof of such action required to be supplied?

I'd say, in my experience, that MOST orders of protection were a "he said she said" thing. If one person contests, then the poor judge gets to listen to mega crap and has to make a decision. If he or she is lucky, the PO is uncontested and its just granted, no proof needed.

Also, many people choose not to contest unfounded simply because the person filing has obvious problems anyway and the LAST thing they want to do is get near them. They don't want to go to court against them. As in "you don't want me to come near you? GREAT! Done!"

 

[Seajay]

Hitting the hay. Feel like I'm in a game of "Ring Around the Rosey."

 

[Ransom]

Ransom said earlier that they haven't found criminal records for MR (or ER for that matter.) I know DUIs aren't prosecuted criminally but I think many are.

SOME are and SOME are not per Co Law.

http://www.coloradoduiattorneys.com/colorado_dui_laws/colorado_dui_statute.html

http://colorado-dui.com/parts/colorado-dui-law/colorado-dui-law.html

 

[sorrell skye]

On Oct. 7, 2005, Dylan's dad Mark Redwine requested protection against him mom Elaine saying she was "drinking and driving with kids." A judge temporarily ordered her not to drive the kids around or even be with them while under the influence.http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=303598

Since we don't have access to the court order, it's impossible to know the exact wording. We only have the reporter's interpretation.

I'm thinking the court order probably stated that ER was A) prohibited from driving the kids anywhere, as well as B) prohibited from being intoxicated while with them.

I'd be surprised if the court order actually stated that ER was prohibited from "drinking & driving with the children in the car", since drinking & driving is already prohibited by law, regardless of whether or not one has children in the car.

I think the reporter's wording has caused much confusion.

 

[Ransom]

Hitting the hay. Feel like I'm in a game of "Ring Around the Rosey."

Ya think? lol.

Maybe tomorrow we can find Dylan or do something productive to find him and think of things to do like:

Call news stations to BEG them to cover the case
Call news papers to BEG them to cover the case
Put up posters
Give posters to truckers to look for Dylan
ETC.

 

[katydid23]

SOME are and SOME are not per Co Law.

http://www.coloradoduiattorneys.com/colorado_dui_laws/colorado_dui_statute.html

http://colorado-dui.com/parts/colorado-dui-law/colorado-dui-law.html

And if you have children under the age of 16 in your car then it iS charged as a criminal offense, as child abuse.

http://www.laszlolaw.com/the-one-two-punch-of-dui-and-child-abuse
"If the driver is stopped and arrested for an alcohol-related driving offense, the prosecutor will likely charge child abuse as well."
The tag-along child abuse charge creates a particularly difficult situation for the driver for a number of reasons. First, the impact of a child abuse charge carries more onerous consequences for some groups of people than the DUI charge that is at its root. Second, although many drivers will be able to successfully negotiate with the prosecutor for the dismissal of the child abuse charge as part of a plea bargain, the mere fact of being charged with child abuse will generally result in a person’s permanent placement on a statewide database of offenders against children. Third, because of unique and strict laws relating to DUI cases, even drivers who ultimately win dismissal or acquittal of every offense charged in their cases will be unable to erase the reference to a child abuse arrest from their public record.

 

[OneLove]

On Oct. 7, 2005, Dylan's dad Mark Redwine requested protection against him mom Elaine saying she was "drinking and driving with kids." A judge temporarily ordered her not to drive the kids around or even be with them while under the influence.http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=303598

Since we don't have access to the court order, it's impossible to know the exact wording. We only have the reporter's interpretation.

I'm thinking the court order probably stated that ER was prohibited from A) driving the kids anywhere, as well as B) prohibited from being intoxicated while with them.

I'd be surprised if the court order actually stated that ER was prohibited from "drinking & driving with the children in the car", since drinking & driving is already prohibited by law.

I think the reporter's wording has caused much confusion.

In order to get a PO with terms of ER not driving the kids AT ALL, MR would most likely have had to prove that Elaine was guilty of driving drunk with the kids in the car. I don't believe that happened. I also don't believe that Mr. Redwine would have intentionally set up a situation where HE would have had to personally take both sons to everything they needed to go to, to and from school, sports, friends' houses, etc. It would even have meant he would have to stay with the kids every time Elaine went to buy groceries, go to the bank, etc. I don't see that being very likely. I guess it could have. I just don't think it likely. I would love to know, though.

 

[Ransom]

THE ONE-TWO PUNCH OF DUI AND CHILD ABUSE
Colorado drivers who are arrested for an alcohol-related traffic offense and have a passenger in the car under the age of 16 are likely to get an unpleasant surprise along with their DUI citation: an additional criminal charge for the offense of Child Abuse.

Colorado law defines the crime of child abuse to include circumstances in which a person “unreasonably places a child in a situation that poses a threat of injury.” In many Colorado jurisdictions, elected District Attorneys have decided that this broad language includes the action of driving a vehicle with a BAC over .05 (the lowest limit eligible for DWAI arrest) while a child is a passenger in the car. It doesn’t matter whether the child is the driver’s child or someone else’s. It doesn’t matter whether the driver has the permission of the child’s parent to be riding in the car under the specific circumstances. It doesn’t matter whether the driver is a child himself—such as a 17-year-old driver with a 15-year-old friend in the passenger seat. If the driver is stopped and arrested for an alcohol-related driving offense, the prosecutor will likely charge child abuse as well.

http://www.laszlolaw.com/the-one-two-punch-of-dui-and-child-abuse

BBM: LIKELY ... JURISDICTIONS ... LIKELY .... nothing was said EVER about Child Abuse in 2005 with MR PO against ER. And nothing was said to be "criminal" other than here.

 

[catswhiskers]

way to go ransom.

i found it entirely odd that her surname prior to redwine is her current fiance's.

i also don't think it's relevant to the case. perhaps.

jmo. imo. moo. et cetera.

Sorry I am about 20 or so pages behind here - but Dylan's mum's surname is Hatfield I believe (at least that's the name she uses on fb).

 

[Ransom]

In order to get that PO, MR would have had to prove that Elaine was guilty of driving drunk with the kids in the car. I don't believe that happened. I also don't believe that Mr. Redwine would have intentionally set up a situation where HE would have had to personally take both sons to everything they needed to go to. It would even have meant he would have to stay with the kids every time Elaine went to buy groceries, go to the bank, etc. I don't see that happening.

Believe what you want. The news9 reporter had the records and reported as such. I heard them. You heard them. I read them. You read them. But if you know better.... there you go!! Believe what you want. Your choice.

Here's the VIDEO again and the written article:

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=303598
@ 1:32

ETA to put the right link since I'm lame and put the wrong one first.

 

[catswhiskers]

way to go ransom.

i found it entirely odd that her surname prior to redwine is her current fiance's.

i also don't think it's relevant to the case. perhaps.

jmo. imo. moo. et cetera.

Elaine S. Hatfield married Michael L. Hall in El Paso, Co. Colorado; March 25, 1988

Woops just read a bit further and found this post - this is what happens when you post from the other side of the globe!

 

[FruitTingles]

Believe what you want. The news9 reporter had the records and reported as such. I heard them. You heard them. I read them. You read them. But if you know better.... there you go!! Believe what you want. Your choice.

Here's the VIDEO again and the written article:

http://colorado-dui.com/parts/colorado-dui-law/colorado-dui-law.html
@ 1:32

I believe them


Good sleuthing Ransom!