CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #25

[Deleted member 39678]

OK, Hubby is home, so this is my last post tonight...

This explains it a lot better than I would be able to at the moment:
http://insidedateline.nbcnews.com/_news/2007/01/23/4374177-cell-phone-forensics?lite



I can't make you believe me. I've shown evidence of how they use the records, Which companies keep which records, and for how long. Links to cases where they used the ping information not received when the phone was "in use", but merely on. Call Records are different than Tower Records - the link to the blog with forensics in the name explains that.

The only thing I can suggest at this point is to read up on it yourself. And, yes, it's very possible they can store this information for extended periods of time without a great deal of space needed. We're talking digital records - not written ones. Coded information - all numbers.

Thanks for the information. I still would like to know how in a rural area with a cell phone pinging on a single tower you can pinpoint where the phone is? The phone could be miles from the tower. MOO.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

I know at one point, LE said there was no activity on Dylans phone after 8pm that night. Thinking outside of the box, perhaps Dylan's phone WAS used-sent a text, pinged somewhere...after the time period that we were told there was no phone activity. They wouldn't necessarily release that info. If it gave them a clue where he might be or who might have him, I am sure they would not release it. But it could explain them backing off of MR-especially if he was with LE or they knew MR's whereabouts at the time of the phone usage..

 

[Eileen730]

I still think Dylan went missing when his Phone ceased activity.
JMO

 

[Eileen730]

iMO, some posters, myself included, have been open to scenarios that have nothing to do with MR until we remember the phone seemingly dropping off the face of the earth at eight the night before. So it is not MR, necessarily, but the phone, that stands in the way, for me, in believing his version right now.

Thanks for the information. I still would like to know how in a rural area with a cell phone pinging on a single tower you can pinpoint where the phone is? The phone could be miles from the tower. MOO.

As I understand it it gives you a Radius of where that phone could be. Like a grid to search!
JMO

 

[Skbale]

Thanks for the information. I still would like to know how in a rural area with a cell phone pinging on a single tower you can pinpoint where the phone is? The phone could be miles from the tower. MOO.

Cell towers have individual brackets that are directional. They would be able to tell which one was pinged and the direction that bracket was aimed in. It is also possible for signal deflection off objects (mountains) that could possibly complicate following pings.

 

[SCHMAE]

who said thats the only texting he was doing? for all we know he could have been texting half a dozen other friends as well.

Right Aust, very true. They can have multiple full convos' going on at once.
They only showed this one because it's the only one relevant. Texts to other friends, where he was NOT going in the morning, would just be routine, but surely there are more. Good call.

 

[sunni]

Call me stupid, but I have a smart phone and I dont' have the GPS on. At least I don't think I do. Maybe it is something I am not familar with. I thought it was used to get directions to somewhere. Is that wrong? tia

I also have a smartphone, and rarely have the GPS on. Where I live, reception is spotty, and my phone's battery doesn't last as long as other phones I have had.

When i have the GPS on, it drains it even faster.

Most of my battery problems are due to my phone constantly searching for service. :banghead:

 

[Skbale]

I also have a smartphone, and rarely have the GPS on. Where I live, reception is spotty, and my phone's battery doesn't last as long as other phones I have had.

When i have the GPS on, it drains it even faster.

Most of my battery problems are due to my phone constantly searching for service. :banghead:

GPS coordinates would still be sent to LE when dialing 911 or when searching for phone. Turning feature off disengages any software on phone that uses location info (like maps, navigation, even some picture and social media programs).

 

[cluciano63]

I believe I have heard of cases where LE talked about checking tower records too see which phones were nearby at a particular time or date.

 

[Angelonline]

Thanks for the information. I still would like to know how in a rural area with a cell phone pinging on a single tower you can pinpoint where the phone is? The phone could be miles from the tower. MOO.

You can't pinpoint per se, as per previous links but you can tell which tower it hit and how strong the signal to that tower was also what direction it pinged from I believe. So no they can't pinpoint but they can give you a general location even when only one tower is available.
Confusion- links for most of the above previously posted (just heading off the link question). The rest is my opinion. As I said previous my oldest daughter is a cell technician / network specialist at a major carrier. I get a lot of info from her. But of course that is considered my own opinion since I dont believe WS will verify me as a cell techs mother. Lol.

 

[Kimster]

You guys need to link up on these facts about cell phone pings, unless you are professionals in this field. And if you are professionals, please get verified. Instructions on that procedure are at this link ------>[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8580064&postcount=5"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders[/ame]

Thank you for the posts that link up and/or provide visuals. :woot:

 

[bessie]

I posted this in another thread just this week. It might shed some light on the subject of cell phone forensics.

Cell phone tracking has become routine for many LE agencies. Some have even installed in-house systems for this purpose. Others pay cell providers for information, and the providers are more than happy to oblige by offering packages of for-fee services.

The New York Times
March 31, 2012

WASHINGTON — Law enforcement tracking of cellphones, once the province mainly of federal agents, has become a powerful and widely used surveillance tool for local police officials, with hundreds of departments, large and small, often using it aggressively with little or no court oversight, documents show.

The practice has become big business for cellphone companies, too, with a handful of carriers marketing a catalog of “surveillance fees” to police departments to determine a suspect’s location, trace phone calls and texts or provide other services. Some departments log dozens of traces a month for both emergencies and routine investigations.

While cell tracking by local police departments has received some limited public attention in the last few years, the A.C.L.U. documents show that the practice is in much wider use — with far looser safeguards — than officials have previously acknowledged.

And in Arizona, even small police departments found cell surveillance so valuable that they acquired their own tracking equipment to avoid the time and expense of having the phone companies carry out the operations for them. The police in the town of Gilbert, for one, spent $244,000 on such equipment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/u...raises-privacy-fears.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Cell Phone Records -- Training Manuals

CNET News
August 15, 2012

A federal court has ruled that warrantless cell phone tracking by police is legal.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57...ks-warrantless-cell-phone-tracking-by-police/

ACLU
September 10, 2012

What we have learned is disturng. While virtually all of the roughly 230 police departments that responded to our request said they track cell phones, only a tiny minority reported consistently obtaining a warrant and demonstrating probable cause to do so.

Many law enforcement agencies track cell phones quite frequently. For example, based on invoices from cell phone companies, it appears that Raleigh, N.C. tracks hundreds of cell phones a year. The practice is so common that cell phone companies have manuals for police explaining what data the companies store, how much they charge police to access that data, and what officers need to do to get it.

http://www.aclu.org/protecting-civi...hone-location-tracking-public-records-request

ETA: This link is a few years old, but the basic information about triangulation and GPS remains the same.

Locations Technology Primer

 

[The Cheese]

The mother said that according to the records (which she has seen) there was no activity on Dylan's phone after 8 p.m. I don't know why we wouldn't believe her.

"JOSTAD: Yes, he did have a cell phone, according to his mom, Elaine Redwine. And she said, too, just the fact that -- according to cell records she`s seen, the fact that there was no activity on Dylan`s cell phone after 8:00 PM is very unusual. She says this is a tech-savvy kid who is always texting."

And I know reporters don't always get everything right, but this is what one of them said in that same transcript. "The most bizarre thing about this case, though, Nancy, is that Dylan, a prolific texter as most 13-year-old boys are who have cell phones -- his phone was not used since 8:00 p.m. Sunday night. His phone was not even on after 8:00 p.m. Sunday night."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1211/28/ng.01.html

I believe the mother saw the records. I believe she is speaking the truth. She wants her son back. Why would she lie about the time of the last activity on Dylan's phone?

I don't think she lied - I haven't seen her say 8pm. I saw a reporter say she said 8pm, and I saw Jostad from Nancy Grace say she said 8pm. I haven't seen Elaine say 8pm. I don't know what she really said.

Most importantly, I can see with my own eyes there are texts after 8pm. About 10 of them back and forth between Dylan and R, between 8:01 and 9:27.

I have no reason to think the reporter or R made up those texts. I'd feel like a fool seeing that in black and white to say they don't exist. I'm not going to do it.

 

[Dee10]

Link please for bolded above. And I don't think it is an hours drive and we have no proof they had dinner. And what are the 'things' they were supposed to discuss. ty

I just happened across this, looking for something else:

After Dylan arrived in Durango on Nov. 18, father and son grabbed dinner and went by Walmart to pick up groceries for the week, Mark said. Dylan was visiting on a court-ordered visit.

Mark hadn’t heard much from his son lately, but that night the two hardly had a chance to talk about how Dylan liked his new home, he said. http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/-1/news01&source=RSS


This is what I consider a possible discrepancy in MR's version of what happened before he left that morning as he has said described it differently on another occasion to the effect of nudging him awake and he understood. It is possible it might be the reporter's error or it might not be.

From the same article:

Mark said he tried to wake his son the next morning around 7:30 before leaving to run errands, but Dylan was fast asleep.

 

[mmmagique]

I don't think she lied - I haven't seen her say 8pm. I saw a reporter say she said 8pm, and I saw Jostad from Nancy Grace say she said 8pm. I haven't seen Elaine say 8pm. I don't know what she really said.

Most importantly, I can see with my own eyes there are texts after 8pm. About 10 of them back and forth between Dylan and R, between 8:01 and 9:27.

I have no reason to think the reporter or R made up those texts. I'd feel like a fool seeing that in black and white to say they don't exist. I'm not going to do it.

Link please? According to this article: "R.N. received his last text from Dylan just after 8 p.m."

http://durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/0/News03/A-boy’s-life#

Now why is Dylan's mom saying that, and R. N. saying that if it's not true?

 

[mmmagique]

There is a beautiful new website for Dylan. http://finddylan.com/

 

[SCHMAE]

Holding on to hope is hard. I clicked the link for Dylans' new site and it just
filled me with sorrow.
How many are beginning to think there will never be a resolution to this case ?

 

[The Cheese]

Link please? According to this article: "R.N. received his last text from Dylan just after 8 p.m."

http://durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/0/News03/A-boy’s-life#

Now why is Dylan's mom saying that, and R. N. saying that if it's not true?

Do you have a link for either Dylan's mom or R saying the time was 8? I see a reporter and Ellie Jostad from NG saying 8, and a reporter saying just after 8. I see texts between 8:01 and 9:27 with no times on them.

From your link, the actual texts after 8pm - between 8:01 and 9:27 - which I posted last night, and which have been posted and discussed here a number of times.

I can not and will not pretend they don't exist. Everyone else, of course, can do as they please.

Dylan: (time 8:01 p.m. Nov. 18) yea

R: Oh ok

Dylan: can I come over early lkke 6 30 early tomarrow

R: Yeah

Dylan: you better let me in

R: I will

R: im gonna be at my gmas

Dylan: i call (you) all day if you dont

R: Ok

Dylan: will you gma care or be up

R: Just come around to were the sliding door is were that room is and knock on it and i will wake up

R: (Time 9:27 p.m. Nov. 18) Call me when you get here too

 

[mmmagique]

This is an older article, but one I have not seen before. It has comments from Dylan's grandma, his step-grandma, (I'm assuming MH's mom?) his cousin, and a school mate.
http://www.gazette.com/articles/boy-148009-friends-ago.html#ixzz2E1Nq8Tbh

 

[NC Analyzer]

Do you have a link for either Dylan's mom or R saying the time was 8? I see a reporter and Ellie Jostad from NG saying 8, and a reporter saying just after 8. I see texts between 8:01 and 9:27 with no times on them.

From your link, the actual texts after 8pm - between 8:01 and 9:27 - which I posted last night, and which have been posted and discussed here a number of times.

I can not and will not pretend they don't exist. Everyone else, of course, can do as they please.

Dylan: (time 8:01 p.m. Nov. 18) yea

R: Oh ok

Dylan: can I come over early lkke 6 30 early tomarrow

R: Yeah

Dylan: you better let me in

R: I will

R: im gonna be at my gmas

Dylan: i call (you) all day if you dont

R: Ok

Dylan: will you gma care or be up


R: Just come around to were the sliding door is were that room is and knock on it and i will wake up



<modsnip>

R: (Time 9:27 p.m. Nov. 18) Call me when you get here too

<All of the calls above came in at 8:01. The call below from R came in at 9:27>

All but the last call from R were at 8:01. I don't see anything to show Dylan made any calls after that time.
ETA: That should say "text" not "call" but hopefully you know what I meant.