CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #37

[The Cheese]

#878 the post that you were responding to was when ER would say that DR would call and let her know where he landed for the night. I don't know how to bring that one over so we all can see.
BBM
IMO - the context of the question & answer was in regards to when DR was in Bayfield, not day to day activities. IMO that when DR went to Bayfield, since ER was in Colo Spgs, he would contact her and let her know where he was, if he was staying the night with someone.

IMO it doesn't mean that no one was concerned if he didn't come home at night. IMO it means that if DR was out of town, in MR's custody, ER would be made aware by DR if he was going to be at a friends house for the night. IMO, ER would get very concerned if her 13 yo son did not return home when expected while he was in her custody.

GRACE: So Elaine, let me get this straight. You`re telling me that it would be unusual for him to go to sleep at the end of the day, if he were spending the night somewhere else, and not say, Good night, I`m going to sleep?

REDWINE: Well, not necessarily going to sleep, but he would let me know where he landed for the night. So like, if he was hanging around with his friends in Bayfield, you know, he would let me know what friend he was sleeping with that night or whatever the case may be. You know, he often did stay up later, so he didn`t always text me, but he would always generally text me in the morning when he woke up.

 

[ColdHands]

Could you refer me to those studies please? Those percentages are far different from the ones I found for paternal filicide in the U.S.

250 - 300 per year by mothers, fathers, and other family members combined

50% (125 to 150) by mothers

50% (125 to 150) by fathers and all other family members combined

That's the 2003 FBI Uniform Crime Reports study widely cited by Resnick and others who study filicide.

Thanks!

So 5-6 per week.
Or 1 per day.

Still way too many

 

[SCHMAE]

''Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1980 through 2008—63% were killed by a parent” (33% fathers, 30% mothers).

http://suite101.com/article/mommy--daddy-killers-a407136#ixzz2LN5ObbJx

33% to 30 % is almost even. In a political race, that would be a ' dead heat' ! js

( is there one by age group, like if the victim is a young teen )

 

[Kimster]

There might be some threads that can help you guys with your sleuthing in here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=180"]General Information & Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[tamild]

I think the Father Did It theories could definitely use some discussion of when did the murder or abduction occur. Monday morning he could have left with Dylan, handed him off to someone or murdered him on the way to the payroll office. Or Dylan could have been at home all day and MR murdered him or handed him over in the afternoon. There really has not been much validation of MR's story, so yes, I think Monday is a possible timeframe.

Thank you, ColdHands I was thinking of the lack of cellphone activity and reasoned that it's possible that Dylan didn't communicate that morning simply because everything was going according to plan. If he got up, got ready and headed out the door with dad, he would've had no reason to contact anyone. That's not to say that I believe it happened that way, but I think it can be added to the list of possibilities.

 

[TxJan1971]

BBM
Do we know what time Mark's appointment with his lawyer was? Maybe that's why he finally left at 7:30 so he could make that meeting.

If that info has been released, I haven't seen it. From the uncut interview:

Melissa Blasius:
So did you do payroll… a work payroll thing… so you went down to the office and then anything else you did in Durango that morning?

Mark Redwine:
I spoke with my divorce attorney ‘cos we were in the process of filing some papers with the courts …in regards to you know the divorce side of stuff.

MB questions imply a chronological order which MR doesn't dispute so I assume he went to his office first. In my experience, lawyers' offices open later than construction related businesses, but I suppose there are always exceptions to everything. All MOO

Adding onto your post:

From the Melissa Blasius interview with MR:

MR:
And, you know, I get up to go run my errands ‘cos I had a payroll issue that needed to be dealt with first thing Monday morning because that’s when payroll goes in, and so it was important for me to get down there as early as possible. Well, I wanted to leave at 6:30 so I would be there at 7:30 when they open the doors.

***
Since MR only left home at 7:30 - depending on how long it took to get to Durango and then go take care of his payroll issue, it appears he went to his attorney after taking care of the payroll issue. I'm looking to confirm whether he ever said he actually had an "appointment" or if he just dropped by. If anyone else has this info., please provide a link. TIA

 

[The Cheese]

So, I take it to mean that you are simply going to disregard all the ACTUAL murders that parents have perpetrated on their children? Because it seems we have some folks who are a bit confused about that FACT based on the statistics provided when in actuality, PARENTS/CARETAKERS, MURDER THEIR CHILDREN A LOT MORE OFTEN THAN ANYONE ELSE DOES!
I'm sorry, but I do think it would be a very good idea if we could bring more awareness to this issue. Father's murder their children.
A new study of child murders: circa 2012...

Study by Dr Debbie Kirkwood, shows men and women are equally capable of killing children, but their motives for killing are very different. Men are more likely to kill their children in order to take revenge on ex-partners and to make them suffer. Women are more likely to kill because they intend to take their own lives and cannot imagine leaving their children without a mother.
But even more than violence, research shows that a history of obsessive controlling behaviour - a sense of entitlement - can be a pointer to a man's inability to accept the separation. Enduring anger towards his ex-wife....

more: http://denomshischaostheory.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-study-fathers-do-kill-their-kids.html

And for anyone who cares to do the research, just Google "Fathers who kill their children". A real eye opener.

And just a few "stats" for those who would like to read up on Family Violence in general. It's called MURDER IN FAMILIES:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mf.pdf

JMO, but I believe it serves to represent a better perspective when it comes to Dylan. This isn't just about a "missing child", this is potentially a "murdered child" who was last seen by his father and was in his father's care at the time of his mysterious disappearance.

The study by Kirkwood is in Australia. If you have any studies or statistics for the U.S. on paternal filicide, I would really appreciate if you'd share them.

In the other study Murder in Families I don't see anything breaking out frequency by fathers. If you have any studies that do, again, I'd appreciate the name of the study or who it's by so I can try to find it.

Thanks

 

[NC Analyzer]

I'm pretty sure stats will back me up on this, but I am aware that Dylan doesn't fall into a "high risk" category for parental murder due to his age. Most children who are murdered by a parent are under the age of 5. That being said, Dylan also doesn't fall into the "high risk" category of an abductor...even though those numbers are MUCH, much smaller than parental murder, Dylan's age also precludes that anomaly from being a probability....since everyone is focusing on statistics and all,

 

[Lordeebee]

Despite findings that men commit filicide as often as or more often than women,17,27,33–39,92 paternal filicide has attracted limited research. Few of the studies investigating paternal filicide2,5,6,36,46,93,94 employed large samples of fathers, limiting the generalizability of results

Fathers are often perpetrators of fatal‐abuse filicide, which is usually the result of battered‐child syndrome and rarely involves a psychotic disorder or suicide attempt.5,6,9,26,28,97 Previous family violence is often a cofactor in cases of fatal abuse and in other paternal filicides.26–28,43,98 Perpetrators are likely to have a personal history of abuse in childhood, particularly in paternal filicides involving infants under one year of age.

Motivational factors noted for paternal filicide include attempts to control the child's behavior, and misinterpretation of the child's behavior.5,66,93 In an investigation of five paternal filicides, Palermo100 pointed out that all of the men felt a sense of personal inadequacy and had a lack of parenting skills and coping mechanisms. Several studies show a high incidence of related substance abuse/dependence.9,2

http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/1/74.full

 

[Kimster]

I'm pretty sure stats will back me up on this, but I am aware that Dylan doesn't fall into a "high risk" category for parental murder due to his age. Most children who are murdered by a parent are under the age of 5. That being said, Dylan also doesn't fall into the "high risk" category of an abductor...even though those numbers are MUCH, much smaller than parental murder, Dylan's age also precludes that anomaly from being a probability....since everyone is focusing on statistics and all,

Is there a "high risk" calculator when it comes to being abducted or murdered by a parent?

In the Resource Center, there is a thread about whether a woman is at a high risk of being harmed. But I've not seen one for kids. I'll bet there's something like that out there though. Everything else is on the internet, it seems.

 

[The Cheese]

and extremely rare. 6 children a year are murdered by strangers. 2 children a WEEK are murdered by people known to them. Mothers are responsible about 47% of the time and fathers about 53%.

Mumsnet.com

Well I found a forum post on mumsnet saying that and tracked through to find the study. It's from England.

If anyone has any statistics or studies on paternal filicide in the U.S. other than those I posted, I'd appreciate the heads up. Thanks.

 

[Lordeebee]

1. Yearly around 750,000 children are reported missing in the United States, around 2,000 every day.


2. Most of these are runaways or kids taken by a family member.


3. Around 100 children are abducted and murdered in the U.S. each year. Around 60% of all child-murder abductions are at the hands of someone the child knows, not a stranger.


4. In around 75% of all murder-abductions, the child is believed to be dead within 3-6 hours of the abduction.


5. Nearly all murdered children are killed by a family member, most often a parent

http://www.keepyourchildsafe.org/abduction-murder.asp

 

[SCHMAE]

There might be some threads that can help you guys with your sleuthing in here: General Information & Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Is that sweet Mod speak for ' you guys are clearly at a stand still and I'm
tired of reading the same posts 300 pages in a row ? "

 

[The Cheese]

So 5-6 per week.
Or 1 per day.

Still way too many

Yes, almost 1 a day. One child murdered by anyone is too many.

 

[asyousay]

1. Yearly around 750,000 children are reported missing in the United States, around 2,000 every day.


2. Most of these are runaways or kids taken by a family member.


3. Around 100 children are abducted and murdered in the U.S. each year. Around 60% of all child-murder abductions are at the hands of someone the child knows, not a stranger.


4. In around 75% of all murder-abductions, the child is believed to be dead within 3-6 hours of the abduction.


5. Nearly all murdered children are killed by a family member, most often a parent

http://www.keepyourchildsafe.org/abduction-murder.asp

This is so upsetting as your parents are the ones that should love and protect you no matter what. It boggles the mind that some people are so devoid of human emotion :banghead:

 

[thepinkdragon]

Or it could be exactly like that:

"The profile of a family annihilator ( father who murders his own children) is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,' Levin said. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even"."
if psychologists had seen them in advance, they would have spotted the warning signs. They would have noticed how the person reacted to things not going his way - the irrational rage and the blaming of others. These people often also regard their partner and children as their own possessions.'.
"
These are executions. They are never spontaneous. They are well planned and selective. They are not carried out in the heat of the moment or in a fit of rage. They are very methodical and it is often planned out for a long time. There are certain people the killer blames for his problems. If a friend came along, he wouldn't kill him or her. He kills his children to get even with his wife because he blames her and he hates her. The killer feels he has lost control. Annihilating his family is a way of regaining control. It is a methodical, selective murder by a rational, loving father. That's why it is so terrifying.'

link:
http://m.guardiannews.com/uk/2006/nov/05/ukcrime.lornamartin

Read entire article. It is terrifying but def explains how fathers can take the life of their own precious children.

Based on this I'd better never anger my husband. He fits this profile to a "t"

 

[Kimster]

Is that sweet Mod speak for ' you guys are clearly at a stand still and I'm
tired of reading the same posts 300 pages in a row ? "

:lol:

Actually, I am hoping you guys are adding these links to the Resource Center. It's good information that we can use on other cases as verified sourcing.

 

[SCHMAE]

Well I found a forum post on mumsnet saying that and tracked through to find the study. It's from England.

If anyone has any statistics or studies on paternal filicide in the U.S. other than those I posted, I'd appreciate the heads up. Thanks.

Well Cheese you said one study was in Aus and another in Uk and not to be
smashing on my own country here, but I would just bet that the US numbers
FAR EXCEED any numbers in either of the other two countries. Just a guess.
Moooo

 

[NC Analyzer]

Is there a "high risk" calculator when it comes to being abducted or murdered by a parent?

In the Resource Center, there is a thread about whether a woman is at a high risk of being harmed. But I've not seen one for kids. I'll bet there's something like that out there though. Everything else is on the internet, it seems.

I'm sure there are, Kim. But I'm really not exactly moved to spend a lot of time looking up all these statistics. I know what I know from professional experience. I also know that parents/caretakers murder their children more often than strangers. Stranger abductions are RARE.
We could look at all the stats out there, but it won't distinguish this case any more than anything else. People choose to believe what they want to believe. And who they want to believe.
The only thing that concerns me about this case is the perspective that it is somehow "rare" for father's to kill and it seems very difficult for many to believe that father's OFTEN kill out of revenge/control/loss of control of an ex. It disturbs me in the same way the issues surrounding Domestic Violence were not part of public awareness until approx 20 years ago....and is still "new" to some.

 

[The Cheese]

I'm pretty sure stats will back me up on this, but I am aware that Dylan doesn't fall into a "high risk" category for parental murder due to his age. Most children who are murdered by a parent are under the age of 5. That being said, Dylan also doesn't fall into the "high risk" category of an abductor...even though those numbers are MUCH, much smaller than parental murder, Dylan's age also precludes that anomaly from being a probability....since everyone is focusing on statistics and all,

Abduction rates are MUCH much greater than parental murder -

Per year in the U.S. -

Family abduction - 250,000

Non-family abduction - 58,000

Children murdered by a parent *or other family member* - 250 - 300

Children murdered by mother - 125 - 150

Children murdered by father & all other family members combined - 125 - 150

Children murdered by father - less than 125 - 150

Stereotypical kidnapping - 115