CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #42

[Salem]

http://www.krdo.com/news/Redwine-fa...ance/-/417220/18076238/-/npdmtsz/-/index.html

Be nice Salem, I think this is that article you've been searching for, I've been helping you out today ___ i wouldn't want you to eat your hat :floorlaugh:

I think this is it too, Ronald and thank you so much. But... I think the article was updated and/or the video to take out the words about MR not harming either of the boys. In the video now, all you can hear Cory saying is that they never had a reason to worry about letting Dylan go to MR's - but you can see his mouth moving and saying other words, so I don't know......

Regardless - thank you for your help, that hat is not very appetizing :floorlaugh:

:yourock:

Salem

 

[Ronald99]

I think this is it too, Ronald and thank you so much. But... I think the article was updated and/or the video to take out the words about MR not harming either of the boys. In the video now, all you can hear Cory saying is that they never had a reason to worry about letting Dylan go to MR's - but you can see his mouth moving and saying other words, so I don't know......

Regardless - thank you for your help, that hat is not very appetizing :floorlaugh:

:yourock:

Salem

I totally agree, I remember Cory stating that MR never hurt either one of them !!

 

[Seajay]

I cannot recall if this has been discussed, but has it been ruled out that there wasn't an RSO on the flight that DR took...Is it possible someone on the plane took a liking to DR and followed them home. MR leaving in the morning was just the opportunity they needed???

I think that goes under the umbrella of abduction and LE has not ruled that out yet. Don't know about that specific scenerio though.

 

[Seajay]

I think this is it too, Ronald and thank you so much. But... I think the article was updated and/or the video to take out the words about MR not harming either of the boys. In the video now, all you can hear Cory saying is that they never had a reason to worry about letting Dylan go to MR's - but you can see his mouth moving and saying other words, so I don't know......

Regardless - thank you for your help, that hat is not very appetizing :floorlaugh:

:yourock:

Salem

It's rough when still working a case where links and videos are starting to vanish. It's hard to back up what you say if you can no longer get the links.

Thanks for all the time you spent looking. I know Cory said that Mark had never hurt him or Dylan. We had a big discussion about it back around threads # 23 or 24, I think. And now, with it still being relevant, it's going to be impossible to discuss it again.

 

[Seajay]

I totally agree, I remember Cory stating that MR never hurt either one of them !!

Thanks for looking for it. Several of us can remember him saying it but it seems now we can't prove it anymore.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Sadly, with everything I've read and heard to date, I believe the body will be found in the lake and his demise will be tried to be explained/set up as an accident which took place when he went fishing alone while waiting for his dad to return from his errands. MR has, in my opinion, overemphasized the missing fishing pole, and several times (including on the DP TV show) mentioned the fact that Dylan may have gone down to the lake. Collectively, everything Mark has said leads me to believe he is not being truthful about what happened that night, and to me, this is the likely scenario.

I haven't figured out a couple things though. Supposing this happened, how would the body be put into water deep enough to not be easily discovered without a boat? Is there an area near shore where there's deep water access - like a cliff? Secondly, to keep a body down, it would have to be weighted, but if discovered weighted, it would obviously not be an accident. This could be interpreted by some as an accidental drowning except for the weighting. Could this have been done in a way that appeared like it was an accident?

I'm glad the family has found a team/teams to help search the lake. It looks like it was partially melted by the end of March last year which is just a few weeks away.

I have a couple of thoughts.

A weighted body could be explained by: Dylan went fishing, then someone attacked him and put him in the water (uh-huh...) or if his backpack had enough weight in it, it could weigh him down (because everyone takes every thing they brought with them when they go fishing...uh-huh...) or if there is an area in the lake with a lot of trees or branches, a body dropped there could get caught and stay down, especially with a backpack on(that would just be luck, might be bad luck because it might have been better to find Dylan floating on the lake depending on how he got there)

I don't know this reservoir, but every other one that I have been to had deep areas and shallow areas around the perimeter. I'm guessing this one does, too, as well as the deep area near the dam.

 

[Seek&Find]

"I remember one time he threw me down on the ground and started punching me in the face. Mark threatened to take the kids from me several times. There were police reports that had to be filed before he would return them. There was an incident in 1990 when Mark did not return the children, and I had to report it to the police department. I was petrified. I was deathly afraid that Mark was going to hide the kids …that he was going to take them and I was never going to see them again. I believe that Mark could do something to harm Dylan because he has a violent temper and snaps easily." Dr Phil 2

MR:
I never raised my hand to her and I never hit her with an open hand or a fist. Umm, you know… there were times when we got into pushing matches, and I recall a time that… she was standing in the door and wouldn’t let me leave through the door, and I physically removed her and threw her on the bed, so… these are all things that can be construed as being domestic violence.

Dr. Phil:
So do you suppose the police have they said there’s one, two, three instances of the children being in your control when the mothers didn’t know about it and the history of domestic violence… that they might say… you know, this guy might be a little volatile, so… we might … should take a good hard look at him.

MR:
And I have no problem with that.
Dr Phil 1

Cory said he is “100 percent” sure that Mark had something to do with Dylan’s disappearance.

But his suspicion’s also come from personal experience. He said that Mark kept him and Dylan from their mother, Elaine Redwine, twice. He and Dylan were kept in a cabin “for a week and a half and he kept us up there without any contact.”

“It was scary and you are afraid and angry,” he said. http://www.gazette.com/articles/missing-151587-brother-monument.html#ixzz2MeChb1br

"For the next two years, the couple went through divorce proceedings. In 2008, mom, Elaine Redwine, claimed she had a confrontation with her ex-husband Mark in the early hours of July 4. She wrote, "He was very drunk and grabbed me and took a swing at his son." She said Dylan reacted and hit Mark."
http://www.9news.com/news/article/303598/42/Missing-boy-Dylan-Redwines-family-had-violent-history (more in video)

Mark Redwine was ticketed for child abuse, menacing, trespass, assault and disorderly conduct in 2003 in Adams County. All of the charges were dropped except disorderly conduct, which Mark Redwine pleaded guilty to. http://durangoherald.com/article/20...Police-reveal-no-new-leads&template=mobileart

Dr. Phil:
Did you or did you not take your sons Cory and Dylan without telling their mother on two occasions, once in 2003 and once in 2006, and if so, do you think that contributes to the police saying, well here’s once, twice three times that you’ve taken the children without her knowing it that that might cause them to think not that you might have harmed your son but that maybe you’ve spirited him away somewhere. Do you think that might cause them to be suspicious?

MR:
Well…absolutely….I mean… I can see where that might raise suspicions.Dr Phil 1

CR:
I think Mark has something to do with it. I think he’s either got him hidden out or done something and disposed…I think… I strongly think that he’s involved. BBM

"There has been two previous times where Mark has kidnapped me and Dylan. He took us to a ghetto hotel in Denver and in 2006 he took us to his boss’ house. Both those times I did feel like I was being kidnapped."


You know it’s been three months, I mean, Has your mind gone to the place that he may have killed your son?

ER:
Yes, it has.
(^ this group, see Dr Phil 2 Link)

And you believe that your ex husband may have done him harm?

ER:
I hope not, but yes, I do believe that that is a possibility.


ER:
I really don’t trust you, and I really have a concern that you hurt him and his bones are out there just laying… and you don’t even care. You don’t! Where’s your emotion?
(^^this group Dr Phil 1)

Missing Boy's Mother Suspects Ex-Husband in Son's Disappearance

IMO, it's very clear Mark has been violent, and that Cory and Elaine have obvious concerns that Mark may've harmed Dylan.

Moo

 

[SmoothOperator]

**my apologies for being way behind and that some of the posts I'm replying to are possibly not in numeric order**

Well, she certainly gave him more freedom than a lot of 13 year olds have, he was accustomed to wandering around all day and then calling her to tell her where he was "landing" at night. I can't see her being all that concerned with knowing what t.v. channels he was watching. She makes it sound like MTV was the ONLY thing he ever watched, but I've seen several parents on here saying it's way too explicit and they don't let their own kids that age watch it. I have no idea because I've never watched it myself. Was she with him 24/7? Can she absolutely swear that he NEVER watched Nick channels? NO, she can't. I'm not bashing her one bit, but that is just unrealistic to make that kind of claim.
I could sit here and say that none of my boys ever looked at , but in truth, I never SAW them do it, but I can't say they NEVER did.

Regarding the opinion of Elaine just not being all that concerned about what her son's activities were..and using the COMPLETELY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT paraphrasing of Dylan's "landing" randomly somewhere for the night and calling to let her know..

IMO the fact that this is TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT is IMO altering and changing the entire meaning of the "paraphrased" statement that Elaine Redwine made on NG..

THE CONTEXT FOR WHICH THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE WAS SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSING ELAINE'S COMMUNICATION WITH HER SON, DYLAN WHILE IN HIS FATHER'S CARE/CUSTODY..

She is stating what her "regular/normal" pattern of communication was with her son, Dylan WHILE HE WAS NOT IN HER CARE/CUSTODY(therefor very literally NOT EVEN IN THE SAME TOWN/CITY as her at that time), BUT RATHER WAS IN THE CARE/CUSTODY OF STAYING WITH HIS FATHER, MARK REDWINE. This IMO is important due to the fact that when TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT as in above post it is assigned completely different and IMO therefor INACCURATE MEANING to the statement that Elaine Redwine made on NG.

Regarding statements made about her child's likes and dislikes.. IMO comparing it to your child watching is IMO likening apples to baked potatoes..IOW not even up for comparison, IMO.. While kids watching has negative conotations, kids watching Nick does NOT.. Its not a claim originating from a form of denial due to shame..its a claim simply based upon knowing what her own son's likes/dislikes are and what are his regular viewing preferances..jmo

My son is very near Dylan in age and I can say with certainty that my son does not watch Nick due to it not being a preferance of his .. instead there are other channels that my son ALWAYS WATCHES. I know this due to the fact that as his mother who resides with him in the home sees on a day to day basis, I can state that Nick is not a channel he'd be interested in watching.

Now does that all alone and by itself make anything for absolute certainty NEGATED WRT what MR alleges that Dylan was watching that morning?..NO, it does not. It simply shows that Nick was not a channel that Dylan Redwine preferred to watch. Imo a mother is absolutely qualified to make such a statement about her son..

In the grand scheme of things its just yet another issue that to many people raises yet another possible red flag where Mark and his accounts are concerned..

But.. IMO taking Elaine's words completely out of context alters/changes the meaning assigned to those words.. therefor giving an inaccurate meaning to her statements.jmo

No it is not common for the judge to speak with the child.

When ER was asked about it by MB ER stated she did not know.

Thus I must ask who brought the concerns to the attention of the Court.

The judge, if they are looking for the truth from the child, would appoint legal representation for the child, separate of both parents.

I was that child, and my deal with the judge was that no one, including lawyers and CPS would ever see what I said.

More so jumping off from the points discussed in the above posts regarding Dylan's sealed testimony.. imo a (GAL)guardian ad litem(legal representation SOLELY for the minor child, completely seperate from either parent) is not assigned to a child when a judge is looking to get the truth from the child. A GAL is assigned to a child when the courts believe that the minor child's best interest is being compromised by their parents(AS IN BOTH, meaning neither parent is acting in that child's best interest)..that is not the case here..

Dylan's situation is NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON as far as his being taken into chambers and discussing WITH THE JUDGE PRIVATELY what his personal wishes are, and why or why not he believes those expressed wishes are in his best interest.. At Dylan's age many judges take great consideration into the words of the older child whose custody is being determined by that judge.. AGAIN THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON.

WRT to the above stating that Elaine did not know and questioning then who was it that brought these concerns before the court.. <---this IMO is not accurate..

Elaine did not know what?..There is nothing indicating that Elaine was unaware of concerns brought to the judge, IMO nothing whatsoever indicating such..in fact when Melissa Blasius was so badly wanting to know what it was that Dylan said in those chambers to the judge and asking Elaine wasn't she dying to know as well, Elaine very simply replied that she knew what was said by Dylan to the judge.. IMO she knew due to her being an involved mom who in fact did have a very close, open relationship AND dialogue with her youngest son, Dylan..she knew that her son was speaking privately with the judge and she knew exactly why her son was speaking privately with the judge..

The fact that it was private, as well as the fact that these private statements would be sealed is what allows the child to speak with such open honesty without any fear of negative consequences from either parent, period! Protecting the child from speaking any truth that one of the parents would find displeasing and therefor the possible negative consequences for the child's honesty to the judge. The sealing of these private statements made are necessary.

She told Melissa Blasius that the judge sealed them, yet LE had full, open access to them therefor whatever Dylan stated was fully known to LE in case anything stated could be of any assistance in the investigation into what has happened to him.

Everything stated by Elaine Redwine WRT the sealed statements made by Dylan to the judge IMO were upfront, honest, and IMO extremely difficult to be misconstrued into her being unaware of anything related to the sealed statements of her youngest son, Dylan. Jmo.

Oh DEE ! Nice find ! Here we have batted around dozens of times the mail lady sighting ! and MR thinking ER took DR from inside his house ! and the two cannot be done at the same time right ?
Genius ! Thank you .

ETA IF MR believes ER took Dylan, then the mail lady's sighting is null and void because Dylan would be gone by that time with ER back to wherever she stashed him. If MR believes the mail lady saw him, then ER could not have taken him as he was still in the area at 2:30 pm ! Again DEE,, thanks for being alert !

*I am posting the ^above^ for reference with the post below being a direct reply to it*

In my opinion, maybe if he thinks Dylan went with someone at Elaine's behest both scenarios could still be true.

While I can see that this in theory may seem plausible, but IMO the actual facts of the mail person's acct IMO make it not possible.

Just the logistics of the sighting mean that this person in theory that is abducting Dylan at Elaine's behest just happened to come by at this exact time of him taking this walk.. but most importantly its the fact that the mail person's acct includes his WALKING WITH ANOTHER BOY OF A SIMILAR AGE...

IMO that not only discounts the possibility that someone at Elaine's behest abducted Dylan due to that leaving behind an extremely credible witness of Dylan getting in the car and leaving with someone who had driven up while they were out walking.. IMO that fact also IMO negates the mail person's acct in full..

IMO its quite likely why LE discredited the mail person's acct due to it involving another Individual that would have been able to corroborate the mail person's acct that Dylan was alive and well out walking the afternoon of Monday, 11/19.. Along with the fact that this other individual, the boy walking alongside "Dylan" would have thereby been the last to have been verifiably seen with Dylan prior to his disappearance..

IMO had that been the case it would be well documented and known publicly due to it being a main staple of the facts of the disappearance..

The mail person's acct involving another kid IMO was likely to have also assisted in LE being able to discredit the sighting as having been DYLAN.. LE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EASILY LOCATE ONE, OR BOTH OF THESE KIDS TO LEARN THE ACTUAL IDENTITY OF THE BOYS.. THEREFOR RULING OUT THAT IT WAS DYLAN THAT THE MAIL PERSON SAW THAT AFTERNOON OF 11/19.

IMO there is more than enough known about this sighting that makes the sighting quite easily corroborated or discredited as having been Dylan Redwine..and IMO its exactly why LE were very early on able to discredit it as having been an actual sighting of Dylan..jmo, tho.

 

[Eileen730]

Does MR have an ATV?

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Did anyone notice in this video that the road they are searching is from Vallecito to Durango? The road Mark took that morning. Not Vallecito to Bayfield, where Dylan's friends live. Had they already searched the other way?

ETA: Also the way they came in from the airport, duh....

Yes, it says a lot IMO, especially when LE asked for any recreational video from 6pm on the sunday night until 12pm on the monday.

The main big search was between Durango and Vallecito, smaller searches may have occurred between Vallecito and Bayfield.

 

[SCHMAE]

Sadly, with everything I've read and heard to date, I believe the body will be found in the lake and his demise will be tried to be explained/set up as an accident which took place when he went fishing alone while waiting for his dad to return from his errands. MR has, in my opinion, overemphasized the missing fishing pole, and several times (including on the DP TV show) mentioned the fact that Dylan may have gone down to the lake. Collectively, everything Mark has said leads me to believe he is not being truthful about what happened that night, and to me, this is the likely scenario.

I haven't figured out a couple things though. Supposing this happened, how would the body be put into water deep enough to not be easily discovered without a boat? Is there an area near shore where there's deep water access - like a cliff? Secondly, to keep a body down, it would have to be weighted, but if discovered weighted, it would obviously not be an accident. This could be interpreted by some as an accidental drowning except for the weighting. Could this have been done in a way that appeared like it was an accident?

I'm glad the family has found a team/teams to help search the lake. It looks like it was partially melted by the end of March last year which is just a few weeks away.

Interesting. If there is a body in there ( i still hope to heck there is not) and it were an accident/ drowning , would it probably be floating and found in that first week? So the idea that is not found still today means it must not be 'floating ' so it is weighted? So sorry because now I'm remembering pages and pages of this very talk and at that time I guess I did not pay enough attention or it was long ago.

 

[SCHMAE]

Thanks for looking for it. Several of us can remember him saying it but it seems now we can't prove it anymore.

Is that weird? I cannot say I remember it being heard for sure but it does sound really familiar so I will trust that several of you heard it but am wondering why edit it out? MSM is conspiring to make MR look worse than he makes himself look? This is really REALLY common with politicians and news stories and makes me think if you see something really interesting ,take a screen shot as well as save the link before the story changes. But with video, if you download the actual video to your hard drive and then they edit it, which version would be on your hard drive? Any ideas? ( general question, not just to you seajay)

 

[Eileen730]

Interesting. If there is a body in there ( i still hope to heck there is not) and it were an accident/ drowning , would it probably be floating and found in that first week? So the idea that is not found still today means it must not be 'floating ' so it is weighted? So sorry because now I'm remembering pages and pages of this very talk and at that time I guess I did not pay enough attention or it was long ago.

That depends upon a large number of factors. How warm is the water? Is the water still or is it moving? Bodies are usually heavier than water, so when the lungs are filled with water the body sinks. Decomposition begins to occur, and gasses released from that trapped inside the body cause it to float. Water that is sufficiently cold may act to prevent decomposition gasses from floating the corpse. Also, puncture wounds may release trapped gasses. Sometimes clothing may snag on something underwater, keeping the body down. Once the corpse floats scavengers such as carrion birds or insects may perforate the flesh, releasing the gasses that cause the body to sink again. This can take anywhere from a few hours to a few days, again depending upon a wide variety of circumstances

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_will_a_dead_body_float_in_water

 

[Eileen730]

Is that weird? I cannot say I remember it being heard for sure but it does sound really familiar so I will trust that several of you heard it but am wondering why edit it out? MSM is conspiring to make MR look worse than he makes himself look? This is really REALLY common with politicians and news stories and makes me think if you see something really interesting ,take a screen shot as well as save the link before the story changes. But with video, if you download the actual video to your hard drive and then they edit it, which version would be on your hard drive? Any ideas? ( general question, not just to you seajay)

It was said on the FB we cant mention!
there are also transcripts of it on SM.

 

[Eileen730]

M: Um, well I can only imagine being a mother and the frustration of hearing about your son going missing. And you know, I can only think that has to do with lashing out and trying to find who is accountable for this in this situation. I've been working closely with the investigators to do what needed to be done because you know, he was last seen at my house. I know there's rumors going around that he's been spotted by people. You know, our concern is that something has happened to the point now where we just want to keep in the public's eye, you know Dylan's face, keep the focus on Dylan. And you know, don't worry about me and everything's going to be alright on my end. But I know this is only a troubling time for Elaine and my son Cory, I spoke with him last night and I'm surprised we haven&#8217;t been able to hook up today because one of the things we're trying to do is unite together. And I have my oldest son from the Phoenix area here and of course my brother is here. So we're trying to unite as a family and stay focused on what's important here. And you know everybody wants to focus on me but the focus isn't me right now. The focus is finding Dylan and that's where I'm at


Uncut: Mark Redwine talks about son's dissapearance
koattv&#8226;

 

[SCHMAE]

M: Um, well I can only imagine being a mother and the frustration of hearing about your son going missing. And you know, I can only think that has to do with lashing out and trying to find who is accountable for this in this situation. I've been working closely with the investigators to do what needed to be done because you know, he was last seen at my house. I know there's rumors going around that he's been spotted by people. You know, our concern is that something has happened to the point now where we just want to keep in the public's eye, you know Dylan's face, keep the focus on Dylan. And you know, don't worry about me and everything's going to be alright on my end. But I know this is only a troubling time for Elaine and my son Cory, I spoke with him last night and I'm surprised we haven’t been able to hook up today because one of the things we're trying to do is unite together. And I have my oldest son from the Phoenix area here and of course my brother is here. So we're trying to unite as a family and stay focused on what's important here. And you know everybody wants to focus on me but the focus isn't me right now. The focus is finding Dylan and that's where I'm at


Uncut: Mark Redwine talks about son's dissapearance
koattv•

BBM What does that mean ?

 

[SCHMAE]

And for a little chuckle...this may appear OT , but much has been made of LYING and glance , automatically , off to your left. So watch this little boy at the beginning glancing to his left. He's obviously lying and then when confronted with the evidence he distracts from the issue. Mom says ' why is the bottle empty' and he says ' its not empty' . It's almost empty ! LOL ,,,,, so FWIW and ATJ!

http://sarcasticsarcasms.blogspot.com/2013/02/i-said-i-didnt-eat-no-darn-sprinkles.html?spref=fb

 

[TxLady2]

MR's speech pattern is very similar to a lot of people I know. Double negatives, distancing using terms such as that boy, etc. While at my son's baseball tournament this weekend, I heard, "C'mon boy" or "Let's go kid." This is normal talk here.

It's not just normal for Texas, though, I've seen the same speech patterns with my hubby's grown children and their maternal side of family, and they're all in CO. When we say "that boy", it's kind of an endearment to us. <modsnip>. Yet when I listen to people who are from the northern states, for instance, I find their speech patterns just as odd. Never will forget listening to people from MN say, "It's cold out, better take a jacket with." I'm like, did you forget and leave out a word there??
The only speech pattern I find really frustrating with Mark is when he rambles on and on, but never seems to get to the point. I know many people like that, though. They talk in circles and finally end up saying, "Wait... I forgot what I was trying to say to start with."

 

[TxLady2]

I'm familiar with the type of speech patterns you are referring to, but Statement Analysis is quite different. Although not respected by WS, it is an interesting study in the patterns of speech. It has nothing to do with regional dialect or what would be expected/usual terms a parent uses when referring to their child. It is similar to behavior analysis, which also isn't allowed on WS....although both fields are used by the FBI BAU profilers routinely.

I've read several things from several statement analysis experts, and one in particular who claims certain statements indicate deception even though those expressions are very common in certain parts of the country. I don't know where this particular "expert" is from or where he trained, but he definitely does not consider regional dialect important, and it should be!

So many people were so critical of the Ramsey's because Patsy said "that child." But they forget that Patsy was born and raised in Atlanta, GA and it is VERY common to use that expression in the South.

 

[TxLady2]

SBM

Then I guess that proves the point that hon or boy can sound affectionate or disparaging, depending on context and listener perceptions. Just as there are different opinions on the case, there are differing opinions on the importance and meaning of statements.

Moo

Right. So a person should always remember to use expressions and pattens of speech that the person he/she is talking to won't perceive as odd or suspicious?? Is that what you're saying?? That he should drop his normal way of speaking?? Wouldn't that be even worse? People who know him or know the speech patterns of that area would think he was putting on an act for sure!!