CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #43

[NC Analyzer]

Tacking on to #1, I feel like IF he's got physical alcohol dependence, it's possible that maybe he didn't drink as much as he typically does the night before the poly, or even 2-3 days before the show taping, and he could have been starting to have withdrawal syptoms. In other words maybe he DID try to "sober up" for the show and couldn't do it/handle it. IMO he would've had to quit at least a couple of weeks before the show to have a chance at being past the more obvious physical symptoms, if alcohol dependence is a problem for him.

I saw you added a #3 later and that's along the lines of what I was going to mention also. I think it's also very possible it had nothing or very little to do with alcohol and the "not feeling well" was what he used to back out of the poly. He might've gotten more sympathy if he'd used something like food poisoning or a migraine or something as opposed to Jim Beam, though, IMO.

Yep. I've witnessed DT's and I've also seen alcoholics who attempt to control their drinking for an event...they might as well drink. Easier to mask the physical symptoms for them than trying to sober up.

 

[Money Girl]

Hiya Money Girl! :seeya:
Just wanted to comment on your avi as I really do like it.. love the simplicity of it combined with the black-n-white photo shots of our Dylan.. did you make it?

sorry for the quick O/T, guys..

No, I didn't make it; found it online. There was another one I liked better, but it had a Christmas tree in the picture. Hopefully, DR will be home before the next Christmas season.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

So here is my list:

1. MR is an alcoholic
2. MR was using a drunken stupor as an excuse to avoid the scheduled poly.
3. MR was self medicating due to personal issues
4. MR was lying and doesn't have a drinking problem...just a problem with lying.
5. MR is incapable of using coherent language to say he didn't want to take the test.

Any other ideas?

This may be 4 worded differently, I think it is different though.

6. MR creates his own reality then firmly adheres to it or even adopts it as reality. Then becomes agitated or "sick" when his version is challenged.
____
opinion only

 

[NC Analyzer]

This may be 4 worded differently, I think it is different though.

6. MR creates his own reality then firmly adheres to it or even adopts it as reality. Then becomes agitated or "sick" when his version is challenged.
____
opinion only

Very interesting. Creating his own reality would probably be somewhat of a mental health issue, though, especially if it causes physical illness in response to being challenged.

 

[mijamawi]

Just caught up again.

This was said a long way back, I'm sorry. Although silence is sometimes very loud, I would like to offer one possible reason for no denial from Elaine.

I lived with a man who used every available chance to either speak half truths or blatant lies in order to make me look bad when we were in public.The "poor me" thing, "Look what I have to live with."

I never denied his accusations because I felt it could draw us into an ugly interchange that others would have to endure. I just let it lie and figured those who knew me would also know the source. Those who didn't, well... They could make their own mind up.

Elaine had a purpose on the DP show. IMO she knew MR's tactics well and chose not to be drawn in or diverted.

AnotherSetOfEyes quoted me saying where MR said ER had a drinking problem and that's why he threatened divorce.

I don't much care about their drinking. I'm drinking wine right now. Hell, we have a thread dedicated to drinking downstairs.

I was helping a poster out by saying the info she was asked to link was stated on Dr. Phil.

I stated why I even brought that up. I don't care about their drinking. I was just helping Money Girl because she had left the thread and numerous people were asking her to link up the info on ER being a drunk.

I would venture a guess that a lot of folks have a glass of wine in the evening to relax.

I don't think very many folks have a missing child though.

Also pretty sure that a glass of wine is in an entirely different "ball field" so to speak, than a half a bottle of Jim Beam....especially the night before you are appearing on national tv in regard to your missing child.

Some discipline would be have been appropriate in light of the circumstances MR was dealing with, wouldn't you agree?

I don't think I'd be thinking of tying one on when I was planning to make a public appearance about my missing child the next day....but that's just me.

This is where you turned it into something I didn't say.

Yeah, I agree. I've said many times he should have never said he'd take the poly if he had no intentions of doing so. He didn't do himself any favors. I see that.

The point of my post was, I really don't care if either are raging alcoholics. Being an alcoholic does not automatically mean someone is capable of murder. MOO

This is me explaining what I was originally talking about.

Good point. Being an alcoholic doesn't mean someone is a murderer. But it does open the possibilities on how a murder, especially a rage murder, could have taken place. Alcoholics aren't exactly known for discipline, self control or clear thinking and many of them are even known to be violent and prone to extreme behavior. Check the local LE reports in any newspaper to confirm this particular behavior. And the courts are full of people charged with various offenses who claim they were "drunk" or it never would have happened.

This is you telling me to check my newspaper on various drunk behavior.

I'm married to an alcoholic, so I'm well aware of their behaviors. I'm also aware that the stereotypical behavior listed above isn't the case for everyone. My dh is a VP of finance. He has zero anger issues. He doesn't black out. He doesn't have a violent bone in his body, but he is an alcoholic. Like Ms. PC said, I really don't believe MR actually tied one on. I think that was made up to get out of the poly. JMO

This is me saying I don't need to check anything.

I divorced an alcoholic myself, but neither of us were or are married to MR and we are discussing him, not our spouses or what they do or don't do. I'm pretty sure we've all seen out of control drunks. And if you think this was all an "act" to get out of a poly, well, all I can say is manipulative liar would be the best fit on my list.

This is you telling me we're talking about MR when all I really did was help a sista out who wasn't here to fend for herself.

The only reason I brought up my situation is because you referenced me to alcoholic behavior.

Again, manipulative liar doesn't mean murderer. Is MR responsible for Dylan's disappearance? I don't know. Is he an asshat? Obviously.

This is me on the defensive again because words were put in my mouth....again.

No, actually I believe we were attempting to explore MR's failure to take a poly and all the excuses that have been given for his behavior.
Things got somewhat sidetracked when there were comparisons to having a glass of wine in his own house or being married to an alcoholic, which really aren't good comparisons, IMO, considering MR didn't drink a glass of wine in his own house and the only people who know what it's like to be married to MR is our own verified insider and Elaine.

This is full circle. I wasn't trying to explore MR's refusal to take a poly. I don't care. I was trying to let people who were asking where it was stated that ER was an alcoholic. I made it clear several times I don't care about their drinking but somehow that got turned around. It's crazy how that happens.

 

[NC Analyzer]

AnotherSetOfEyes quoted me saying where MR said ER had a drinking problem and that's why he threatened divorce.



I stated why I even brought that up. I don't care about their drinking. I was just helping Money Girl because she had left the thread and numerous people were asking her to link up the info on ER being a drunk.



This is where you turned it into something I didn't say.



This is me explaining what I was originally talking about.



This is you telling me to check my newspaper on various drunk behavior.



This is me saying I don't need to check anything.



This is you telling me we're talking about MR when all I really did was help a sista out who wasn't here to fend for herself.



This is me on the defensive again because words were put in my mouth....again.



This is full circle. I wasn't trying to explore MR's refusal to take a poly. I don't care. I was trying to let people who were asking where it was stated that ER was an alcoholic. I made it clear several times I don't care about their drinking but somehow that got turned around. It's crazy how that happens.

BBM: Well, I was trying to discuss the many reasons for MR's refusal to take the poly, so I'm sorry if you were confused, but when you jumped in I was just responding to your input. I thought we were all here to discuss and respond to each other?

 

[sreshowtime]

Okay- nit pick it, or not ,based on what you perceive/know/believe, or not
I will try to keep it simple, as I am prone to longwindedness- just throwing stuff out- so think

MR passed out and Dylan left of his own accord, in a direction of his choice, in the night, not necessarily running away, but to...
and MR fabricated the next morning events, because he absolutely did not want to admit to 'losing' DR...and now MR may not know how or be willing to admit to such a thing (and DR could have conceivably become totally lost/hurt in the woods or drowned)

^ same type of scenario ^ , but Dylan went with/ or was taken by someone who was visiting at the home...and MR for some unknown reason (threatened, scared, intimidated?) can not or will not admit that such an event occurred. And DR remains missing.

Evil lurks among us. For some reason DR got ticked MR left that morning and took matters into his own hands and took his stuff and left to head to his friends. His path crossed with someone passing through town, a guest of someone in town OR a citizen in town( that no one suspects, ie he is such a GREAT guy!) And now DR is missing from that unfortunate event. A crime of opportunity so to speak.

 

[Salem]

Don't bicker, please. Discuss or move past it, but don't bicker or be snarky with one another, please.

Salem

 

[FruitTingles]

"its unacceptable no matter what direction ya wanna spin it" as in no matter what direction its spun moo is its unacceptable.. this is not a statement meant to personalize whose spinning it with my use of "ya" being GENERAL as in you, me, and every other human being on the planet or otherwise..

But ima's done a great job of just removing the sentence so there will be no misunderstanding my use of "ya".. I will make certain from now on to preface any use of ya, you, y'all, etc with the disclaimer of it being used in GENERAL rather than in any way PERSONAL.. Just as the "ya" was being used in general rather than personal in my last post.

It wasn't really made clear that you were using it in "general" terms and not actually directing it at me. Thanks for clearing that up! and thanks Ima for removing it

 

[mijamawi]

BBM: Well, I was trying to discuss the many reasons for MR's refusal to take the poly, so I'm sorry if you were confused, but when you jumped in I was just responding to your input. I thought we were all here to discuss and respond to each other?

I wasn't confused at all. I was explaining that what you posted was not what I was saying. I merely said where it was stated that MR said he threatened divorce because of ER's drinking and that ER didn't say anything to deny it. That's it. Then I said I don't care about their drinking.

I'm here to discuss and respond.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

Okay- nit pick it, or not ,based on what you perceive/know/believe, or not
I will try to keep it simple, as I am prone to longwindedness- just throwing stuff out- so think

MR passed out and Dylan left of his own accord, in a direction of his choice, in the night, not necessarily running away, but to...
and MR fabricated the next morning events, because he absolutely did not want to admit to 'losing' DR...and now MR may not know how or be willing to admit to such a thing (and DR could have conceivably become totally lost/hurt in the woods or drowned)

^ same type of scenario ^ , but Dylan went with/ or was taken by someone who was visiting at the home...and MR for some unknown reason (threatened, scared, intimidated?) can not or will not admit that such an event occurred. And DR remains missing.

Evil lurks among us. For some reason DR got ticked MR left that morning and took matters into his own hands and took his stuff and left to head to his friends. His path crossed with someone passing through town, a guest of someone in town OR a citizen in town( that no one suspects, ie he is such a GREAT guy!) And now DR is missing from that unfortunate event. A crime of opportunity so to speak.

Those are all viable theories. One of them could turn out to be the truth. Wish I could still believe in any of them.

 

[mmmagique]

BBM:

You mean like this? Maybe not the exact word "acceptable" but the implication, meaning and intention is pretty much the same, IMO

That was exactly what came to my mind as well.

 

[NC Analyzer]

I wasn't confused at all. I was explaining that what you posted was not what I was saying. I merely said where it was stated that MR said he threatened divorce because of ER's drinking and that ER didn't say anything to deny it. That's it. Then I said I don't care about their drinking.

I'm here to discuss and respond.

That's fine. Others do care about MR and his drinking and that's what I was discussing. If you don't wish to join in, that's fine as well.
I am very interested in all the excuses, explanations and behavior characteristics displayed by MR. It's always interesting to me to watch a narcissist in action. Studying this type of behavior is what leads to breakthroughs in the psychiatric community every day. The more we educate ourselves, the better chance we have to prevent or at least foresee criminal behavior.

 

[cluciano63]

Okay- nit pick it, or not ,based on what you perceive/know/believe, or not
I will try to keep it simple, as I am prone to longwindedness- just throwing stuff out- so think

MR passed out and Dylan left of his own accord, in a direction of his choice, in the night, not necessarily running away, but to...
and MR fabricated the next morning events, because he absolutely did not want to admit to 'losing' DR...and now MR may not know how or be willing to admit to such a thing (and DR could have conceivably become totally lost/hurt in the woods or drowned)

^ same type of scenario ^ , but Dylan went with/ or was taken by someone who was visiting at the home...and MR for some unknown reason (threatened, scared, intimidated?) can not or will not admit that such an event occurred. And DR remains missing.

Evil lurks among us. For some reason DR got ticked MR left that morning and took matters into his own hands and took his stuff and left to head to his friends. His path crossed with someone passing through town, a guest of someone in town OR a citizen in town( that no one suspects, ie he is such a GREAT guy!) And now DR is missing from that unfortunate event. A crime of opportunity so to speak.

I would have always believed something like this, if not for lack of a word from Dylan via his phone since Sunday evening.

 

[nikb]

Yeah, I agree. I've said many times he should have never said he'd take the poly if he had no intentions of doing so. He didn't do himself any favors. I see that.

The point of my post was, I really don't care if either are raging alcoholics. Being an alcoholic does not automatically mean someone is capable of murder. MOO

BBM very true. I think the reason I'm wondering about this so much is the reason for him backing out of the poly seems important to me. If he tried to sober up before the show and it didn't work/happen, I see it as him trying but he couldn't do it, which is certainly a likely possibility if he's a regular drinker. If he meant to have a little nightcap and overdid it, I find it more believable that he was feeling bad/hungover (although still not a very valid reason to back out IMO). If it was all premeditated, it says to me that he puts a lot more planning into things like this than I thought previously. If his backing out has nothing to do with the Jim Beam and he basically faked the whole being sick thing, knowing all along he never planned to take the poly, it makes me wonder more about something happening to Dylan that was more planned, where up until I've mostly leaned toward the accident or quick/violent rage incident if MR did something to him.

I definitely don't think the drinking, whether it's normally a problem for him or not, means that he's a murderer. I do think the way the poly thing happened on the Dr. Phil show gives some kind of insight into how he approaches and thinks about things and how much planning he puts into it, and to me that might be relevant to what may have happened to Dylan.

 

[mijamawi]

That's fine. Others do care about MR and his drinking and that's what I was discussing. If you don't wish to join in, that's fine as well.
I am very interested in all the excuses, explanations and behavior characteristics displayed by MR. It's always interesting to me to watch a narcissist in action. Studying this type of behavior is what leads to breakthroughs in the psychiatric community every day. The more we educate ourselves, the better chance we have to prevent or at least foresee criminal behavior.

Here, here. I'll drink to that.

 

[NC Analyzer]

BBM very true. I think the reason I'm wondering about this so much is the reason for him backing out of the poly seems important to me. If he tried to sober up before the show and it didn't work/happen, I see it as him trying but he couldn't do it, which is certainly a likely possibility if he's a regular drinker. If he meant to have a little nightcap and overdid it, I find it more believable that he was feeling bad/hungover (although still not a very valid reason to back out IMO). If it was all premeditated, it says to me that he puts a lot more planning into things like this than I thought previously. If his backing out has nothing to do with the Jim Beam and he basically faked the whole being sick thing, knowing all along he never planned to take the poly, it makes me wonder more about something happening to Dylan that was more planned, where up until I've mostly leaned toward the accident or quick/violent rage incident if MR did something to him.

I definitely don't think the drinking, whether it's normally a problem for him or not, means that he's a murderer. I do think the way the poly thing happened on the Dr. Phil show gives some kind of insight into how he approaches and thinks about things and how much planning he puts into it, and to me that might be relevant to what may have happened to Dylan.

Exactly! Awesome post! :rocker:

And ^^^^THAT is why I was discussing the alcohol/hangover/drinking issue with regard to the poly. There are reasons for everything we do. No one "acts" without something motivating the behavior, ie: thought behind the action. Everything we do requires thought. Some folks think things through better than others, but thought is required before any action can take place.

 

[mijamawi]

BBM very true. I think the reason I'm wondering about this so much is the reason for him backing out of the poly seems important to me. If he tried to sober up before the show and it didn't work/happen, I see it as him trying but he couldn't do it, which is certainly a likely possibility if he's a regular drinker. If he meant to have a little nightcap and overdid it, I find it more believable that he was feeling bad/hungover (although still not a very valid reason to back out IMO). If it was all premeditated, it says to me that he puts a lot more planning into things like this than I thought previously. If his backing out has nothing to do with the Jim Beam and he basically faked the whole being sick thing, knowing all along he never planned to take the poly, it makes me wonder more about something happening to Dylan that was more planned, where up until I've mostly leaned toward the accident or quick/violent rage incident if MR did something to him.

I definitely don't think the drinking, whether it's normally a problem for him or not, means that he's a murderer. I do think the way the poly thing happened on the Dr. Phil show gives some kind of insight into how he approaches and thinks about things and how much planning he puts into it, and to me that might be relevant to what may have happened to Dylan.

I don't think he ever had any intentions of taking the poly. I think his hangover is laughable. I think he was pressured into saying he would take it. I don't think an ongoing investigation has any business being played out on a daytime talk show. JMO

 

[Salem]

BBM very true. I think the reason I'm wondering about this so much is the reason for him backing out of the poly seems important to me. If he tried to sober up before the show and it didn't work/happen, I see it as him trying but he couldn't do it, which is certainly a likely possibility if he's a regular drinker. If he meant to have a little nightcap and overdid it, I find it more believable that he was feeling bad/hungover (although still not a very valid reason to back out IMO). If it was all premeditated, it says to me that he puts a lot more planning into things like this than I thought previously. If his backing out has nothing to do with the Jim Beam and he basically faked the whole being sick thing, knowing all along he never planned to take the poly, it makes me wonder more about something happening to Dylan that was more planned, where up until I've mostly leaned toward the accident or quick/violent rage incident if MR did something to him.

I definitely don't think the drinking, whether it's normally a problem for him or not, means that he's a murderer. I do think the way the poly thing happened on the Dr. Phil show gives some kind of insight into how he approaches and thinks about things and how much planning he puts into it, and to me that might be relevant to what may have happened to Dylan.

I agree with this and to take it one step further, this coupled with the knowledge of whether or not LE asked for the 2nd poly (which we do not know) would kind of confirm some thoughts/questions I have.

Salem

 

[nosyone]

Each time I watch the private interview that Dr. Phil did with MR, I feel like MR was seriously considering unburdening his soul about something when Dr. Phil told him he would help him. JMO