CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #45

[katydid23]

If Dylan is in the lake, I would have to believe he's been weighted down. If that's the case, then I don't see how MR could say told ya so. If MR killed Dylan prior to placing him in the lake, then he'd either had to have put the backpack on Dylan to place him in the lake, which would then put decomp on him. If he killed Dylan while he was still wearing the backpack, then it would have to have been one killing blow, in which case there'd be evidence on Dylan's body regardless of how long he was submerged. I say one blow because if the first blow didn't knock him out, then surely he'd shrug off the backpack to fight back. Either way, MR would be perp and would be caught. IF this is what happened, why wouldn't MR take off? Why would he point LE to the lake? I'm probably rambling here. I have thoughts in my head but I have a broken finger and it's taken me forever just to type this.

Because if the boy is found in the lake, then he can say a transient killed him and dumped him there. Anything to get him out of the house and his care when it happened. JMO

 

[ColdHands]

If Dylan is in the lake, I would have to believe he's been weighted down. If that's the case, then I don't see how MR could say told ya so. If MR killed Dylan prior to placing him in the lake, then he'd either had to have put the backpack on Dylan to place him in the lake, which would then put decomp on him. If he killed Dylan while he was still wearing the backpack, then it would have to have been one killing blow, in which case there'd be evidence on Dylan's body regardless of how long he was submerged. I say one blow because if the first blow didn't knock him out, then surely he'd shrug off the backpack to fight back. Either way, MR would be perp and would be caught. IF this is what happened, why wouldn't MR take off? Why would he point LE to the lake? I'm probably rambling here. I have thoughts in my head but I have a broken finger and it's taken me forever just to type this.

Jumping off your post-

Is the backpack with clothes enough weight to weigh a body down for any length of time? I was thinking about how he would get the backpack on after the fight, if it is the item used to weight him down. If he waited too long, rigor might make it very difficult to manipulate the arms. That's why I suggested that maybe a tire iron or jack or even jumper cables might have been used. I can see if the death occurred very close to the lake grabbing something out of the truck to use for weight. Hopefully LE would have looked for those when they had the vehicle. I also think the trucks could not have been used to transport too long after death because of possible transfer. I believe there would have been something more specific said if cadaver dogs found scent in the vehicles.
IMO

 

[FlyerFan28]

Tricia will also post a link on the home page. There is a chat room and we usually get to ask questions there or Tricia takes callers.

This will be a outstanding show. I will be there!

Will you let Elaine know how much we care about her and Dylan & Corey?!

 

[catswhiskers]

Because if the boy is found in the lake, then he can say a transient killed him and dumped him there. Anything to get him out of the house and his care when it happened. JMO

And that couldn't actually be what happened? I was really surprised to read that the area did have a reasonable number of transient and homeless people - or at least an area near the lake where those people are known to gather. I guess I tend to think of larger cities when I think of homelessness.

I just want to clarify that I don't necessarily think homelessness automatically translates to people being criminals either -different circumstances for different people.

If by transient you mean something different, as in a traveler of sorts passing by, then I also think the scenario of one such person harming Dylan is still a very reasonable possibility. Predators have been known to roam far and wide just looking for opportunities IMO.

 

[Ronald99]

Jumping off your post-

Is the backpack with clothes enough weight to weigh a body down for any length of time? I was thinking about how he would get the backpack on after the fight, if it is the item used to weight him down. If he waited too long, rigor might make it very difficult to manipulate the arms. That's why I suggested that maybe a tire iron or jack or even jumper cables might have been used. I can see if the death occurred very close to the lake grabbing something out of the truck to use for weight. Hopefully LE would have looked for those when they had the vehicle. I also think the trucks could not have been used to transport too long after death because of possible transfer. I believe there would have been something more specific said if cadaver dogs found scent in the vehicles.
IMO

Durning the interview and media statements, The blanket Dylan supposedly used was still on the couch days after the court issued Search Warrant Search.

If the Blanket was left behind, Then what else did Law Enforcement Fail to Retrieve or overlook ?

The Search was conducted on Thursday November 29 2012 and concluded at 9 PM that same night, Law Enforcement conducted previous searches of the Residence without a Search Warrant.

 

[deoneta]

RE: the fishing pole. The reason the fishing pole is seen as a red herring by some is that MR says he noticed the pole was missing before he even considered that his not having been able to reach Dylan all day was alarming. Neither MR nor LE has ever described the pole or asked area residents or visitors to be on the outlook out for such a pole. Even MR doesn't seem to sure where the pole was:

MR:
There’s several places that that fishing pole is… it was either next to the TV

But he adds that the pole has never been found.

As for HRD dogs being used at the house, they may have been, but this has never been reported. IF HRD dogs were used in the house search, the absence of alerts doesn't necessary mean that a death did not occur in the home.

I've been reading on various threads in this forums with posts related to HRD dogs. I've also read studies and opinions from googling "how soon after death can cadaver dogs alert?"

There is some controversy on the subject. Dogs may be trained to alert to recent scents or much older remains. There are differences in opinion on what scent articles should be used in training. While decomposition begins immediately, there are studies that show that dogs won't necessarily alert if remains are immediately removed. Dogs may not alert until decomposition continues from an hour and half to three hours after death occurs. The consensus seems to be that a failure to alert is much more common that a false alert. In other words, when dogs do alert, they are highly accurate. When they fail to alert, the accuracy is not as high. All my own conclusions drawn from googling and MOO.

 

[mijamawi]

Jumping off your post-

Is the backpack with clothes enough weight to weigh a body down for any length of time? I was thinking about how he would get the backpack on after the fight, if it is the item used to weight him down. If he waited too long, rigor might make it very difficult to manipulate the arms. That's why I suggested that maybe a tire iron or jack or even jumper cables might have been used. I can see if the death occurred very close to the lake grabbing something out of the truck to use for weight. Hopefully LE would have looked for those when they had the vehicle. I also think the trucks could not have been used to transport too long after death because of possible transfer. I believe there would have been something more specific said if cadaver dogs found scent in the vehicles.
IMO

I'm not sure the backpack would be enough. I only threw that out there because I knew it would be thrown back at me. lol

I'm not sure how quickly rigor sets in. I'm just in my first semester of A&P.

If he's in the lake and weighted down by a tire iron or something along those lines, then it's obviously murder, in which case (assuming MR is responsible) why would he use the red herring and point LE that way.

I totally agree about transfer of body. If truck was used, I have to believe LE used cadaver dogs once the vehicles were removed. I can't see MR carrying the body for any distance. And if he did, again there would be some transfer. If the clothes worn in the Walmart video weren't recovered, then I would think LE would really be leaning heavy on MR.

MOO

OK, again my post makes sense to me, but it could be ramble.

 

[scorekeeper]

RE: the fishing pole. The reason the fishing pole is seen as a red herring by some is that MR says he noticed the pole was missing before he even considered that his not having been able to reach Dylan all day was alarming. Neither MR nor LE has ever described the pole or asked area residents or visitors to be on the outlook out for such a pole. Even MR doesn't seem to sure where the pole was:

MR:
There’s several places that that fishing pole is… it was either next to the TV

But he adds that the pole has never been found.

As for HRD dogs being used at the house, they may have been, but this has never been reported. IF HRD dogs were used in the house search, the absence of alerts doesn't necessary mean that a death did not occur in the home.

I've been reaching on various threads in this forums with posts related to HRD dogs. I've also read studies and opinions from googling "how soon after death can cadaver dogs alert?"

There is some controversy on the subject. Dogs may be trained to alert to recent scents or much older remains. There are differences in opinion on what scent articles should be used in training. While decomposition begins immediately, there are studies that show that dogs won't necessarily alert if remains are immediately removed. Dogs may not alert until decomposition continues from an hour and half to three hours after death occurs. The consensus seems to be that a failure to alert is much more common that a false alert. In other words, when dogs do alert, they are highly accurate. When they fail to alert, the accuracy is not as high. All my own conclusions drawn from googling and MOO.

BBM

Do you have a link for MR talking about the fishing pole?
I must have missed that...LOL

TIA

 

[ColdHands]

Durning the interview and media statements, The blanket Dylan supposedly used was still on the couch days after the court issued Search Warrant Search.

If the Blanket was left behind, Then what else did Law Enforcement Fail to Retrieve or overlook ?

The Search was conducted on Thursday November 29 2012 and concluded at 9 PM that same night, Law Enforcement conducted previous searches of the Residence without a Search Warrant.

I believe they had the trucks several days? But yes, I agree that it seems so very short.

 

[catswhiskers]

BBM

Do you have a link for MR talking about the fishing pole?
I must have missed that...LOL

TIA

That was from Dr P, but MR didn't get to finish what he was saying about the different places the fishing pole could have been as someone else talked over him at that point.

 

[ColdHands]

I'm not sure the backpack would be enough. I only threw that out there because I knew it would be thrown back at me. lol

I'm not sure how quickly rigor sets in. I'm just in my first semester of A&P.

If he's in the lake and weighted down by a tire iron or something along those lines, then it's obviously murder, in which case (assuming MR is responsible) why would he use the red herring and point LE that way.

I totally agree about transfer of body. If truck was used, I have to believe LE used cadaver dogs once the vehicles were removed. I can't see MR carrying the body for any distance. And if he did, again there would be some transfer. If the clothes worn in the Walmart video weren't recovered, then I would think LE would really be leaning heavy on MR.

MOO

OK, again my post makes sense to me, but it could be ramble.

BBM I didn't know either and had to look it up.

In humans, it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours after death

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis"]Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[scorekeeper]

does anyone know where the cabin is that Mark took Cory and Dylan too when he was hiding them from Elaine?

 

[deoneta]

BBM

Do you have a link for MR talking about the fishing pole?
I must have missed that...LOL

TIA

It's from the Dr. Phil transcript, day 2 on page 4 of the media thread.

 

[Redhead72]

BBM

Do you have a link for MR talking about the fishing pole?
I must have missed that...LOL

TIA

Here's a copy/paste of the discussion between MR and CR on the DP show in regard to the fishing pole - the discussion came after MR's first wife asked a question about his changing stories - the statement I've included below.

BH – MR’s first wife:
You said you went to T’s house and talked to him and he didn’t see Dylan. Your next story was that you went to T’s house and nobody was there, so …how could you talk to somebody that isn’t there…

MR:
To respond to that, if I may, I attempted to go to T’s house to talk to him but he didn’t answer the door. I assumed that possibly him and Dylan were at the lake. You know the fishing pole has never been found…I assumed that maybe that was a possibility. Do I know for a fact that he had a fishing pole? Absolutely not…

CR:
When you go into your house the fishing pole is in the garage. You didn’t walk through the garage and
into the house before you went into the house...

MR:
There’s several places that that fishing pole is… it was either next to the TV

CR:
It’s always in the garage. Then how come that’s the first …you noticed that before his bike? Before his footprints?

MR:
Well, you sure know a lot, you sure…

CR:
I’ve investigated it in my mind since this happened.

MR:
Well, boy, then why do we have legal enf… or law enforcement involved when we got you two…

CR:
Because they have to deal with people like you who won’t tell them the answers… who won’t cooperate…

I will add a link to the media thread where people can download the transcript themselves in a moment..

ETA: The above exchange happened on the 2nd day of the DP show. Thanks to TXJan1971 a full transcript is available at the following post link:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8952177&postcount=97"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Dylan Redwine *Media , Maps & Timelines*[/ame]


ETA II: Here is a link to the video of the 2nd day of the Dr. Phil show on YouTube:
The exchange starting with BH's statement begins at 12:42 and continues to 13:48
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUHI--tmnI"]Dr. Phil - The Search for Dylan Redwine: Part 2 (Feb. 27th, 2013) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[mijamawi]

BBM I didn't know either and had to look it up.


Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks.

does anyone know where the cabin is that Mark took Cory and Dylan too when he was hiding them from Elaine?

I don't believe we know anything other than it was his bosses cabin. Interesting though. Wonder if it's been looked into.

Is it bosses, boss's, boss'?

 

[deoneta]

That was from Dr P, but MR didn't get to finish what he was saying about the different places the fishing pole could have been as someone else talked over him at that point.

Yes, he was interrupted, but if he thought the fishing pole could have been in one of several places, I think that makes it even less likely that he would have noticed it missing right off the bat. All MOO

 

[raine1212]

Will you let Elaine know how much we care about her and Dylan & Corey?!

I will relay the message to Tricia from all of us here at WS.

 

[deoneta]

Thanks.



I don't believe we know anything other than it was his bosses cabin. Interesting though. Wonder if it's been looked into.

Is it bosses, boss's, boss'?

I can't find anything about it at the moment, but I somehow have the idea that this boss with the cabin was from a previous job, not the job with the pipe laying company. Maybe AZG knows for sure. (boss's- if the pronunciation sounds normal, the regular rule applies. If the pronunciation sounds awkward as in Achilles' heel, only the apostrophe is used. I think)

 

[Crosby87]

If IIRC, MR said Dylan was still texting when he went to bed at 10:30 or so. So why did LE release that 9:37 was the last text?And why didn't Dylan answer his friend's text on Monday morning? Or why didn't Dylan text his friends when he woke up?

Something happened after 9:37 and Mark was with Dylan at that time....did they have words then; did some sort of accident happen?

I believe Mark knows what happened and I believe he is somehow involved in Dylan's disappearance. I don't like thinking that his hatred for Elaine and her life, pushed him over the edge with Dylan.....but I hold onto the belief that LE has more information than we do....I don't understand why the FBI backed out so quickly or never held any type of news conference. I feel the families' frustration.



Dylan's disappearance is so heartbreaking.

BBM

Good work! However from my POV, an altercation could have occurred before 9:37 pm because Mark had access to Dylan's cell phone.

On the way home, Mark could have driven his truck into a secluded area, pulled Dylan out of the truck, assaulted him, and pushed him off a cliff. This would explain why no clues have been found in Mark's truck or house.

When Mark arrived home, he sent a text on Dylan's phone to make it seem like Dylan made it there and was alive and well. After he sent the text, he got rid of the phone.

Mark said he couldn’t concentrate on the movie and he RAN upstairs to bed around 10:30 pm so it sounds to me like Mark had a severe anxiety attack after he arrived home on Sunday evening.

MOO

 

[raine1212]

FBI has not backed out of the investigation.