CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #45

[Allusonz]

No, this does not mean there were any footprints. LE has not reported any footprints. Elaine has stated they looked for footprints and didn't find any (it's back in the umpty doodle threads). It appears that Cory was stating that it made no sense that Mark noticed a missing fishing pole that Cory assumes was in the garage BEFORE Mark noticed IF the bike was missing or IF there were any footprints.

The problem is that there is part of probably many conversations between Cory and Mark that we are not privy to. If Mark originally told Cory that he walked in the front door and didn't see Dylan, then Cory saying "You didn't walk through the garage...." makes total sense.

I thought one of the issues was that MR was not giving them information or speaking with them. I am sure it was stated that MR was not returning calls or texts.

 

[katydid23]

The times I have heard DH describe herself it was as a family friend.

I have never had the impression that she was a pal of MR, but she was good friends of ER. I think her posts on the Official page would confirm this to any individual that was new to the case.

MOO

Exactly. A FAMILY friend. Not just ER's friend, but the entire family. That includes mark. And she defended him in the beginning. Until he began to disappoint her with his strange behavior.

 

[katydid23]

Yes I can.

He could of been hit by a car hard enough to toss him into the water.

If that happened he would have floated to the top soon afterwards. JMO

 

[Seajay]

I think that LE wanted the tapes of the Dr. Phil show to look at EVERYTHING that was said by ANYONE that was on the show that day.

All they have to do is listen. Volumes are spoken by all of them, regardless of what they are saying. It shows character, personality, their flaws, all of it. It gives LE is more complete idea of who they are dealing with and why this case got where it is. IMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

If we actually take what the people that know Dylan the best, they give us an answer.

Texting habits are different for every individual. What brought this point into focus for me with respect to Dylan's were the words of ER herself and his friends.

ER texts Dylan - states she was not alarmed that he had not replied not once but twice. ER did not find it unusual when he did not reply on the Sunday night or the Monday morning. There had to be a pattern here that did not sound the alarm for ER.

Dylan's friends - stated it was not unusual for Dylan to show up "unannounced" Once again they are reinforcing a texting habit of Dylan's and that was it was not unusual for him to reply to texts or even to tell them that he was on his way. His friends, out of everyone, should know whether this was out of character for Dylan. It did not alarm them.

MR - states he would try to stay in touch with Dylan weekly, but he did not always reply.

These statements show a pattern in Dylan's texting which did not alarm any of the individuals involved, including his mother and friends.

BlueBM: I am sorry to have to ask, but I really missed this quote and I have searched the internet and cannot find an article or FMDR quote about this. Could you tell me where you found it? I remember the one where Elaine said that he might not text goodnight, but not where Dylan did not reply to her texts. TIA

His friend WAS alarmed, as indicated at 6:46 that morning when he texted Dylan asking where he was when Dylan didn't show at 6:30. That is not the actions of a friend who thinks Dylan would randomly decide not to show up without notifying him. See side bar in this article:
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/A-boy%E2%80%99s-life--

It also states:"Dylan was a constant text-messager." This is what Elaine said in her interview as well.

 

[katydid23]

If we actually take what the people that know Dylan the best, they give us an answer.

Texting habits are different for every individual. What brought this point into focus for me with respect to Dylan's were the words of ER herself and his friends.

ER texts Dylan - states she was not alarmed that he had not replied not once but twice. ER did not find it unusual when he did not reply on the Sunday night or the Monday morning. There had to be a pattern here that did not sound the alarm for ER.

Dylan's friends - stated it was not unusual for Dylan to show up "unannounced" Once again they are reinforcing a texting habit of Dylan's and that was it was not unusual for him to reply to texts or even to tell them that he was on his way. His friends, out of everyone, should know whether this was out of character for Dylan. It did not alarm them.

MR - states he would try to stay in touch with Dylan weekly, but he did not always reply.

These statements show a pattern in Dylan's texting which did not alarm any of the individuals involved, including his mother and friends.

I think you are mixing apples and oranges when you use quotes from the parents to attempt to show how often D texted from his cell.

My kids text me about 1% of their hundreds and hundreds of texts.

And that comment saying that he SOMETIMES just showed up. I am not sure that means he NEVER texted to make plans w/friends. We see one long text convo just about making plans just the previous night. So obviously he did in fact make plans with his friends.

 

[Ghostwheel]

If that happened he would have floated to the top soon afterwards. JMO

Not necessarily.

"The human body is slightly heavier than fresh water. Consequently, when
unconsciousness takes place, the body sinks. Fat bodies are slightly more
buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water."

The rest of the bit about how cold water slows decomposition here:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/FireandRescuePersonnel/Biologyofdrowning.pdf

 

[Ghostwheel]

I thought one of the issues was that MR was not giving them information or speaking with them. I am sure it was stated that MR was not returning calls or texts.

He spoke to them on the Dr Phil show. This is where this conversation you are referring to took place. Per our verified insider, AZ Grandma, about half of the footage shot did not get shown on TV.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Yes I can.

He could of been hit by a car hard enough to toss him into the water.

Bing, bing, bing, we have a winner to add to the list.

 

[katydid23]

Not necessarily.

"The human body is slightly heavier than fresh water. Consequently, when
unconsciousness takes place, the body sinks. Fat bodies are slightly more
buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water."

The rest of the bit about how cold water slows decomposition here:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/FireandRescuePersonnel/Biologyofdrowning.pdf

I have always read that the gases of decomp pump up the body and it rises to the top. I have seen it happen twice--once in a pool and once in a stream. But I don't know if the water composition affected it differently or not, so?

ETA:

[PDF]
Biology of drowning
www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/.../Biology of drowning....File Format: PDF/Adobe

buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water. If there is ... Almost without exception, a dead body lying on the bottom of a river or lake will ... surface. When the body begins to rise, it will appear on the surface not far from ...

 

[katydid23]

Not necessarily.

"The human body is slightly heavier than fresh water. Consequently, when
unconsciousness takes place, the body sinks. Fat bodies are slightly more
buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water."

The rest of the bit about how cold water slows decomposition here:
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/FireandRescuePersonnel/Biologyofdrowning.pdf

Read on, this is from your link:

Almost without exception, a dead body lying on the bottom of a river or lake will come to the surface again. This is due to gas formed in the body tissues as decay occurs. When enough gas has formed to inflate the tissues and distend the skin, the body becomes lighter than water and rises to the surface. This process is due to the action of bacteria within the body. Consequently, the length of time that elapses before the body rises depends not only upon the amount of fat contained in the tissues but on the temperature of the water. If the water is warm, the formation of gas within the body occurs rapidly and the body may rise to the surface in a day or two. However, if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I have always read that the gases of decomp pump up the body and it rises to the top. I have seen it happen twice--once in a pool and once in a stream. But I don't know if the water composition affected it differently or not, so?

This article says that it does matter what the make up of the water is (salt vs fresh) and it also states that the bodies eventually come back up (unless stuck on something), but that the gasses are caused by microorganisms decomposing the body, and cold water can slow the decomposition rate way down. When the water warms up, decomposition rate increases and the bodies float.

An article posted way back here somewhere stated that bodies that fell into the cold water and sank before the water froze would float to the surface during spring thaw(I think it was New York or New Jersey).

Another article I read said there were a couple of divers found that were over 5 years underwater and completely intact, although I am sure their diving suits kept scavengers off of them.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Read on, this is from your link:

Almost without exception, a dead body lying on the bottom of a river or lake will come to the surface again. This is due to gas formed in the body tissues as decay occurs. When enough gas has formed to inflate the tissues and distend the skin, the body becomes lighter than water and rises to the surface. This process is due to the action of bacteria within the body. Consequently, the length of time that elapses before the body rises depends not only upon the amount of fat contained in the tissues but on the temperature of the water[/B]. If the water is warm, the formation of gas within the body occurs rapidly and the body may rise to the surface in a day or two. However, if the water is cold, bacterial action takes place very slowly and it may take several weeks before the body appears on the surface. When a body is fully distended it is almost impossible to sink even with counter weights.

BlueBM: Yep, right there. Temperature of the water. The water in that reservoir is very cold, and was in November. And while it is almost impossible to sink with counterweights once the water warms up and the body distends (this is why Laci Peterson was found), if the body happens to be jammed under something heavy enough, it will stay down.

ETA: Here is another article that states:
"Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never resurface."
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf

I seriously doubt that lake is THAT cold, so I would expect that during spring thaw, anything that needs to surface, will surface. Just saying that anything that went in, might not have surfaced before the freeze happened.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is some information on ocean temperatures

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/temp.html

When they did the water search at Valencito the water temperature was 38 degrees.

http://www.pagosasun.com/vallecito-lake-searched-for-missing-boy/

The lake water temperature does seem very cold compared to lakes in my region.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

This case has eerie similarities to the Skelton brothers case. Thanksgiving weekend, enforced visitation, a man who was controlling, etc. It has never been resolved. MOO

I noticed that quite a while ago, the circumstances are extremely eerie similarities, which is scary IMO

The times I have heard DH describe herself it was as a family friend.

I have never had the impression that she was a pal of MR, but she was good friends of ER. I think her posts on the Official page would confirm this to any individual that was new to the case.

MOO

Yes DH was from all accounts a family friend to begin with. Something changed, that could be what she heard him say or maybe it was when he allegedly made allegations that she was involved in Dylans disappearance.

MR also suggested that ER hung around criminal types that could have been involved. See Dr Phil show part one.

Yes I can.

He could of been hit by a car hard enough to toss him into the water.

ok going with that theory how far into the water would it have tossed him? With that sort of velocity I would think there would be some evidence, broken bits of light, paint flakes, a shoe, backpack, scattered items from the backpack, blood etc. I would also think that there would be some sort of skid marks, either from trying to avoid hitting him or from panic after hitting him.

questions I'd consider for this scenario are

1. how fast would a body sink if this was happened?
2. did anyone notice a vehicle on that road with any kind of damage
3. was the entire section of road along the lake searched?

 

[SCHMAE]

This exchange between MR and CR on the Dr. Phil show has given me pause and does not sit well with me for a number of reasons. My understanding is that CR had not been to his father's home in some time.


CR states that MR did not walk through the garage. How would he know?


He did not state "whenever I was there", or you "told us that you used the front door". He stated what MR did as if he was physically there.

CR:
When you go into your house the fishing pole is in the garage. You didn’t walk through the garage and into the house before you went into the house...


CR then goes on to say MR noticed the fishing pole before the bike and footprints.

This caught my attention as I had just assumed that the bike was kept outside in that spot. There was nothing stated by any person or via MSM to give me this impression till CR made a point of it. Now I must ask, was the bike in a different spot and/or moved? If it had been brought of the garage, who brought it out and when?

CR then states MR noticed the fishing pole missing before the bike and the footprints.

This tells me that indeed there were footprints. In order for CR to know there were footprints tells me that LE did more than just walk into MR's house the first night and look around. It tells me that LE probably did collect items, tested for fingerprints, DNA et al. It also tells me that they looked closely in the yard enough to find footprints of which they probably took casts and probably soil samples.


MR:
There’s several places that that fishing pole is… it was either next to the TV

CR:
It’s always in the garage. Then how come that’s the first …you noticed that before his bike? Before his footprints?

The walking through the garage bit I think can be explained by the fact that MR obviously parks in front of the garage and not INSIDE the garage. People do either/ or. If he always parks outside could mean maybe his garage is full of junk like most people's or he does not have an auto garage door opener so it's a pain in the butt to out , open the garage , drive in, shut it and get out of your car. If CR knows he always parks outside and not in the garage, then it would stand to reason that MR likely walks on into the front door because the same scenario exists. Would he pull up , get out of his truck, open the garage door manually, close it manually and then walk into the house or just go through the front door? If MR normally parked inside the garage then CR would have no way of knowing where he went first but his trucks are in front of that house in every picture we've seen so he likely parks out front most of the time.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I just pray that for now, this whole family and their extended friends agree to a "cease fire". All the energy going back and forth attacking each other should be directed at finding young Dylan. I know everyone is out of their minds right now, and my heart an prayers are with them. Perceived good guy or bad, old grievances or new....enough people! Right now it's ALL ABOUT DYLAN. Period. Focus! Cease fire!

 

[TxLady2]

I can't speak for the rest, but I have seen violent arguments ensue when a child/teenager wants to do something, a parent says no, and the child/teenager pushes back verbally. I have personally witnessed, and gotten between, parents who push, hit and throw things at their child right in front of a bunch of other people, and all because the child dared to "backtalk" to him/her (yes, it's not just men). I shudder to think of how many parents may do this behind closed doors, but not in public. So you (that is the general "you") have to go with each person can only sleuth from his/her own experiences. You are fortunate that you have never seen this and cannot wrap your head around that scenario. ( I get that, up until I was 32, I would have said the same as you. Not any more.)

Sorry about chiming in this late, I am trying to get caught up.

From what Elaine has said, Dylan is the peacemaker in the family, not prone to temper fits or anything like that, but is kind of a quiet kid. I have no reason not to believe she knows her son pretty well. That said, why would one believe that he pitched a fit over something like that? In fact, it seems very out of character to me, when everyone who knew him talks about what a great kid he is, mild and easy going. I don't know him, of course, but from the picture that his mother and brother have painted, I can imagine he might have just shrugged his shoulders and didn't argue.

 

[SCHMAE]

As for the distant and Dylan thinking it was too far to try to walk... this has been discussed many times and I thought no way would a kid attempt to walk that. But this morning I had a thought. Before kids can drive , they really have a very unrealistic idea bout distance. They think a 10 minute car ride equates to a 20 min walk , give or take. My kids have many times said they would walk to a friend's house only to call me for a ride back because they had NO IDEA how far it was even though we've driven there countless times. So it's possible Dylan thought I can walk over to friend x y or z's house in just a little bit. Just throwing it out there. Mooo

 

[Dixie811]

As for the distant and Dylan thinking it was too far to try to walk... this has been discussed many times and I thought no way would a kid attempt to walk that. But this morning I had a thought. Before kids can drive , they really have a very unrealistic idea bout distance. They think a 10 minute car ride equates to a 20 min walk , give or take. My kids have many times said they would walk to a friend's house only to call me for a ride back because they had NO IDEA how far it was even though we've driven there countless times. So it's possible Dylan thought I can walk over to friend x y or z's house in just a little bit. Just throwing it out there. Mooo

Reading your post reminded me of the many incidents in middle school & high school where I did the same thing! I did this in regard to walking to a friend's house (mom was at work), walking to the stable we kept my horse, and walking home from school.

All of these locations were miles from where I lived, but I would get impatient and/or feel adventurous and completely underestimate the distance and travel time these walks would require. Also, I seemed to forget the lack of sidewalks en route to these destinations! :/ After hours of walking I would be kicking myself saying "I will never do this again!!"

ETA: I am unsure whether I think this is something Dylan would have done. But I don't think it is unusual for kids that age.