CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #48

[findDylan]

quote:
Not more than 10 minutes later, the FBI set up a mobile crime scene lab, put on protective clothing and entered Jessica's home.

Sounds like a full forensics search to me, which would probably require a SW.
MOO.

The only point I was trying to make was that with Jessica's case they went in hours after she was reported missing. There was no mention of a search warrant in any MSM that I could find.

In Dylan's case it was 10 full days before the "forensics" search. And we knew there was a warrant due to MSM.

JMO

 

[findDylan]

From OCT 10, regarding the search of the Jessica's home:

GRACE:
The mom has completely cooperated with police. The police, the FBI, the K-9s came into the home with her agreement. It was a permission search. They did not have to seek a warrant. And she says she understands they got to look at her first and then move on. She`s been nothing but cooperative, to my understanding, Shaul.

I forgot to say from the Nancy Grace show.

:blowkiss: Thank you!!!!

 

[MissJ]

They could and have before in the past. I was looking for some examples but while doing that, I also came across part of a book in Google Books that said that if a body is in cool, damp soil something called adipocere can slow down decomp and I seem to recall that the Vallecito area is/was at one point the site of a glacier. So it's probably very possible. I also think of miners (lots of mines in the area it seems too) and drifters of the past. People who stayed in town or died in town were buried in the town cemeteries, but drifters who died on the "road" were usually buried in unmarked graves along the way and it's likely nomadic Native American tribes wouldn't have designated burial grounds either.

I can't quote this article because it won't allow to copy the except but it should take you to that part on the link. http://books.google.com/books?id=Eo... detect decomp for over hundred years&f=false

Also it appears that there is an archeological study regarding the use of HRD dogs in locating ancient burial sites.



http://www.k9forensic.org/human-signature.htm

and more on the Boca Cemetery project/history...

http://www.k9forensic.org/boca.html

The dogs are fascinating to say the least.

I wanted to respond also, in short to Seajay. I could see that they wouldn't want to panic people thinking there may be a predator out there when they didn't know just who the remains belonged to, especially since they were limited to what they could do at the time.

Wow, interesting. I know that in our community due to religious reasons most were buried in wood coffins and not always had head stones. People with little or no education were contracted to dig up graves. Who knows what was left behind. I do know that for years bodies washed up on the beach side. They were never identified so who knows if they came from crimes or graves under the lake. :twocents::moo:

 

[TxLady2]

From OCT 10, regarding the search of the Jessica's home:

GRACE:
The mom has completely cooperated with police. The police, the FBI, the K-9s came into the home with her agreement. It was a permission search. They did not have to seek a warrant. And she says she understands they got to look at her first and then move on. She`s been nothing but cooperative, to my understanding, Shaul.

I forgot to say from the Nancy Grace show.

Thank you, I don't think I would take NG's word for it as the absolute truth. She is sometimes misinformed.

 

[findDylan]

OT for the most part. In Denver where the botanical gardens parking lot is, it was a Jewish (I believe) burial. Family was told they would have a certain amount of time to move the bodies or they would be left under the parking lot. There are some under the parking lot.

 

[TxLady2]

It really does not matter to me whether they had a SW or not, in Jessica's case. I am confident that they got the perp, and she wasn't killed in the home. So it's a moot point anyway. I was just giving an opinion.

 

[ColdHands]

OT for the most part. In Denver where the botanical gardens parking lot is, it was a Jewish (I believe) burial. Family was told they would have a certain amount of time to move the bodies or they would be left under the parking lot. There are some under the parking lot.

They just found 50-75 year old bodies under a school in Ignacio in March, actually, most likely an old family plot. So definitely does occur.

This site refers to HRD dogs that are used to help archeologists, so it is possible that Historical HRD dogs can be trained to alert on older remains:
http://www.k9forensic.org/evolution.htm

I read that the K-9 Forensics team likes to work cold cases, so maybe they train with older material? It's on their Facebook, dated March 11.

Edit: Oh geez, just saw Emma's post - good post, Emma!

 

[Emma Ems]

Wow, interesting. I know that in our community due to religious reasons most were buried in wood coffins and not always had head stones. People with little or no education were contracted to dig up graves. Who knows what was left behind. I do know that for years bodies washed up on the beach side. They were never identified so who knows if they came from crimes or graves under the lake. :twocents::moo:

I don't want to veer too OT, but a few years ago there was this small bridge over this creek that had to be rebuilt here. In the process of rebuilding they came across Indian artifacts and some bones. That discovery halted the process of the rebuilding the bridge and it took them nearly two years to finally finish building this bridge as the land had to undergo excavation before they could continue it.

The bridge wasn't that old a bridge either, it's just the ground there has a lot of sinkholes and the bridge was damaged. That was one of the reasons for my interest once I read that the lake was man made, I knew CO had a Native American history but before I remembered that was something I wanted to look into, I didn't realize exactly how rich the history was. To me there are numerous possibilities for the dogs hitting at the lake and there is probably more probability that it's not Dylan, since the dogs can't tell us exactly how old the remains were they were alerting to. Another thing that just popped into my mind regarding the lake temperature and decomp, what were the water temps and freezing temps would slow down decomp. If it slows it down greatly and what is the time dogs are actually able to start detecting the smell? I do believe there are time variations, so if let's say Dylan drowned in the lake or was put into the lake immediately after someone harmed him, with the slow down rate from the cold, would the dogs have been actually able to hit for Dylan if this was the case? Off to look up more stuff...

 

[Emma Ems]

They just found 50-75 year old bodies under a school in Ignacio in March, actually, most likely an old family plot. So definitely does occur.

This site refers to HRD dogs that are used to help archeologists, so it is possible that Historical HRD dogs can be trained to alert on older remains:
http://www.k9forensic.org/evolution.htm

I read that the K-9 Forensics team likes to work cold cases, so maybe they train with older material? It's on their Facebook, dated March 11.

Edit: Oh geez, just saw Emma's post - good post, Emma!

I got the impression in reading that the interest began to stem from dogs hitting on sites that were believed to be ancient burial sites of sorts. Like it was kind of stumbled upon that some dogs could detect very old remains and now they are wanting to try to perfect the science of training the dogs to be used now to find archeological sites now. Seriously the dogs ARE amazing in what they could help us find!!! We may need a thread dedicated to dogs hitting on very old human remains and the progress that is made from the studies! The only draw back to it is the dogs would probably never be able to be used in court for a specific case since they can't tell us who or how old the remains are, and it leaves a more wide open interpretation of whose deceased smell they are hitting on, well out in the open anyways and even in older homes.

 

[Emma Ems]

OT for the most part. In Denver where the botanical gardens parking lot is, it was a Jewish (I believe) burial. Family was told they would have a certain amount of time to move the bodies or they would be left under the parking lot. There are some under the parking lot.

I can totally believe that. There was a point in time where it didn't matter what was found on the land too before they just built on top of it. Now you have more activists rallying behind, "This is history and we need to study it before you build on it." If it's public land they do tend to request for the stuff to be moved. It would be interesting to take a dog into the parking lot to see if they could hit on the smells through the concrete.

 

[sarx]

Dogs that work historical sites are trained specifically for that. It is a different scent composition than fresh remains, which is why there are dogs specific to historical remains detection.
While it is possible that someone else is down under that water, it's not likely that these particular dogs being used were trained for historical/archaeology detection. There is a very small group of dogs/handlers that do this kind of work, and I am pretty certain none of them were out there.

 

[findDylan]

Dogs that work historical sites are trained specifically for that. It is a different scent composition than fresh remains, which is why there are dogs specific to historical remains detection.
While it is possible that someone else is down under that water, it's not likely that these particular dogs being used were trained for historical/archaeology detection. There is a very small group of dogs/handlers that do this kind of work, and I am pretty certain none of them were out there.

Thank you for the info. IMO, that clears up if the dogs were hitting on Native American burial.

 

[*Lash*]

A question from the previous thread. Some have speculated MR may have passed his first poly and LE allegedly mislead MR into believing he failed or that it was inconclusive as an investigative tool. If this was true, why would LE need MR to take a second poly if he 'actually' passed the first poly. In my opinion, logic tells me they wouldn't need a second test if he 'actually' passed the first poly given by LE.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

A question from the previous thread. Some have speculated MR may have passed his first poly and LE allegedly mislead MR into believing he failed or that it was inconclusive as an investigative tool. If this was true, why would LE need MR to take a second poly if he 'actually' passed the first poly. In my opinion, logic tells me they wouldn't need a second test if he 'actually' passed the first poly given by LE.

I haven't heard LE say they want another polygraph. If I'm not mistaken, the report of such a statement is not permitted in this thread. It didn't come from LE or MSM

 

[Chili Fries]

I believe there's a very good chance that someone is down there. That doesn't mean it has to be Dylan; there are a lot of homeless people in the general area who may not be missed, someone could have been there on a fishing trip and drowned, Emma Ems' idea could be possible, or any nuber of other things.

I don't really think they're discounting the hits. I think it's more like them saying when LE will say that they don't believe there's a predator out there, doing whatever the predator is out there doing, when they have no idea if it's true or not. I think there are just times when their best option is to just say something to pacify people as much as possible when they don't know (and aren't likely to learn real soon) what the truth is but they want to avoid panic/riots/vigilantism, etc. MOO

You may have a point, Confusion, but I'm very skeptical that Vallecito has many, if any, homeless (I know you said general area, but Vallecito is relatively isolated). A small town with a very cold climate is not the type of place you tend to find homeless people hanging around. And I also doubt that somebody who died fishing would be missed for this long (and they would have had to have fallen in from shore, not leaving an unattended boat). Unless there's a specific person missing that we don't know about, I tend to think that either it's Dylan in the lake or the dogs are wrong.

 

[Emma Ems]

Dogs that work historical sites are trained specifically for that. It is a different scent composition than fresh remains, which is why there are dogs specific to historical remains detection.
While it is possible that someone else is down under that water, it's not likely that these particular dogs being used were trained for historical/archaeology detection. There is a very small group of dogs/handlers that do this kind of work, and I am pretty certain none of them were out there.

Since you are here, I am having a hard time finding this, but the cold. Vallecito is said to be one of the few sites in America that sits upon a glacier. So with the cold how would that effect decomp rates of old bodies? I can only find tundra examples so far and what I found states that a body in a tundra would have some decomp but be pretty much well preserved....finding studies of actual decomp rates(like a time of frozen/normal climate) in frozen soil is proving very hard to find.

Of course now I am having a hard time finding where I read Vallecito sits on a glacier. Argh.

 

[Eileen730]

I haven't heard LE say they want another polygraph. If I'm not mistaken, the report of such a statement is not permitted in this thread. It didn't come from LE or MSM

Well then what we are left with Is He Failed his poly!
His words spoken by him!

So if thats the case why wouldnt he take another. Im sure he was given that option, if he wasnt then i do think LE has caught him in some of his deceptive answers.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I haven't heard LE say they want another polygraph. If I'm not mistaken, the report of such a statement is not permitted in this thread. It didn't come from LE or MSM

It came from a statement made on Tricia's Show, which is allowed here. It was said by Dylan's mother, who I believe.

 

[*Lash*]

Well then what we are left with Is He Failed his poly!
His words spoken by him!

So if thats the case why wouldnt he take another. Im sure he was given that option, if he wasnt then i do think LE has caught him in some of his deceptive answers.

JMO

Exactly! In my opinion, this is why I don't believe MR ever passed his poly.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Well then what we are left with Is He Failed his poly!
His words spoken by him!

So if thats the case why wouldnt he take another. Im sure he was given that option, if he wasnt then i do think LE has caught him in some of his deceptive answers.

JMO

BBM

What we have is Mark saying that LE told him he failed the test not that LE says that he did.