CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #48

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  • #201
BBM: This article says differently, that everyone in the family passed lie detector tests. I wonder which is correct?

"The media quickly jumped on reports that Mark's father, Archie, had arrest convictions 50 years ago or more, but everyone in the Lunsford family cooperated fully with authorities, and they all passed lie detector tests"

http://voices.yahoo.com/mark-lunsford-fights-childrens-safety-411684.html?cat=52

ETA: This also says both ML and his father passed.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2005/03/01/search-suspended-for-fla-girl/

I've been checking Investigation Discovery and since they are still airing the show, they don't have any videos or articles up yet.

It's on the schedule to be aired again on April 7th at noon.

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv-shows/fbi-criminal-pursuit/tv-schedule.htm

Still looking for other links.
 
  • #202
I had been looking over some links on a post SuperMom1995 (I hope I got the numbers at the end of your name right) made. It is on circumstantial evidence. It is an awesome post and thought I would bring it up and see what others think.

I believe that there is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence in Dylan's disappearance, pointing to MR.*
The following is first, a definition of circumstantial evidence, 2nd a break down of the actual evidence I believe we have, then 3rd, the legal authority cited to support that evidence:*

Circumstantial evidence is a series of events or characterization that implies guilt. *It can actually be more powerful than direct evidence because each piece can reinforce the other ones.*

HTTP://EN.M.WIKIPEDIA.ORG/WIKI/CIRCUMSTANTIAL_EVIDENCE
Timothy McVeigh
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26793,00.html
Scott Peterson
People of the State of California vs. Scott Peterson

1) MR was the last person to see DR

When 3 women were found murdered, and it was discovered they were all staying at a nearby lodge, lodge staff were the first people questioned. It turned out a dishwasher at the lodge was responsible for the murders.

http://www.cengagesites.com/academic/assets/sites/4827/bertino_chapter2

2) MR has made several contradictory statements, such as he went by Tristan's and he had not seen Dylan then later he says he went by Tristan 's and no one was there.*

Prior Inconsistent and Contradictory statements*

...are admissible In criminal cases, for one, to *impeach the defendant with a voluntary prior inconsistent statement if the defendants legal team and the court know about the statement, *and to allow the defendant to make an informed decision on testifying or not*
Doran v. State, 606 A.2d 743, 746-48 (Del. 1992).
*For example, a statement obtained in violation of the defendant’s Miranda rights, if it was made voluntarily, is still admissible to impeach the defendant if the defendant testifies.
Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966).

They are admissible by means of polygraph, witness first hand testimony, voice recordings, and other means, for the impeachment of a witness or the impeachment of the defendant if he chooses to testify after knowing the statement will be used. *

http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/evid/evid22.htm

3) MR had no plans for the holiday and only enough food for 2 days. *Mr did very little searching or communicating with mom after the disappearance,*

Behavior

Actions of the defendant, such as etc...is admissible to show frame of mind of the defendant and lack of grief for the missing loved one, as well as to show premeditation. *More examples are learning to shoot a gun for several weeks before the loved one was shot by a gun, or going on a shopping spree when you are suspect in a robbery. *

People of the State of Florida vs. Casey Anthony
People of the State of California vs. Scott Peterson

4) Phone Pings may lead to something in this case.*

Forensic evidence (a category of Circumstantial) like DNA, sound recordings, blood, finger prints.

bleach and buckets were admitted into evidence to show Scott Peterson had murdered his wife.*
People of California vs. Scott Peterson

In People of the State of Texas v. Michael Morton, circumstantial evidence was ignored and the wrong man went to prison. *

5) MR has a legally reported history of Domestic Violence.

In Colorado, history of domestic violence is not admitted to prove defendant did the crime of which he is accused but is admissable to show motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake and lack of accident.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule 404

6) MR failed or produced inconclusive Polygraph results.

Polygraph results are admissible to the Grand Jury to get an indictment or if passing results, a no bill.
http://www.khou.com/news/harris_cou...easing_number_of_criminal_cases-93376954.html

Usually, polygraph results are admissible in a criminal trial to impeach a witness or to impeach the defendant for inconsistent or contradictory statements, as long as he knows the prosecution is going to do that. *If defendant doesn't know it will not be admissible. McLemore v. State, 87 Wis. 2d 739, 275 N.W.2d 692 (1979).*

The 9th Circuit Court has held that polygraph results are admissible but up to the individual court to allow it or not.

Magistrates may consider polygraph evidence when determining whether probable cause to issue an arrest warrant exists;*
United States v. Lindell, 881 F.2d 1313, 1326 (5th Cir.1989)

The recent court opinion from the Dallas, Texas, Court of Appeals ( Leonard v. Texas), which decided that polygraph test results are admissible evidence in a probation revocation hearing

Although polygraph test results, testimony concerning such test results, and offers or refusals to submit to polygraph tests are not admissible into evidence, voluntary statements made before, during, or after a polygraph test may be admitted into evidence, provided that the statements also are consistent with other applicable constitutional and evidentiary rules. *If a statement is voluntary and consistent with other applicable constitutional and evidentiary rules, the statement can be introduced into evidence.  
State v. Damron (Tenn. 2004) 

7) Motive and Character: MR has shown extreme disdain for ex wife ER and MR recently lost child support and instead was ordered to pay ER child support.

Testimony regarding child support and spousal revenge can be admissible in criminal court to show motive.
In Rabinovitz, Jonathan (1993-12-11). and Jones, Charisse (1993-12-09).past behavior testimony was allowed in to show Collins growing anger and authority issues, as well as to show his racial issues.*

Also admissible in custody hearings in Colorado: *Statute 14-10-124 Best Interest of the Child.*

Freedom to be with other women and no children- admissible for motive in Scott Peterson Case*

Freedom to party in Casey Anthony Case.

For Character testimony, for example, from Cory to say when he thinks he is in the right or believes in something he is the first to speak up and be out in front.

8) Proof of Domestic Violence is admissible in criminal court when it is relevant to crime and to show propensity for anger and violence and history with the victim. It is generally not admissible to prove he committed the act he is charged with.
http://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2003/4/Kovach.pdf
*

Thanks SuperMom1995 for all your hard work. It was very interesting to read.
 
  • #203
BBM: If you're referring to the search dogs used in November, they were from La Plata County Search and Rescue. LE should know those dogs even if they don't know Wendy's dogs from the K-9 Forensics searches in Feb/March.

Wasn't the latest search by Wendy's dogs when Bender or someone made the remark that it could have been a dead elk in the lake? That is what I was referring to. I didn't know they had used cadaver dogs in Nov. I guess I was thinking they would use tracking dogs so soon after he disappeared.

ETA: SAR dogs don't search for human remains and yes, they would know those dogs.
 
  • #204
weren't you trying to work out the effect of water temperature on a body resurfacing?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #48

No I was not trying to work this aspect out.

The water temperature was cold and was 38 degrees. Many have posted links with respect to bodies in cold water remaining preserved after many years. Even to the point that forensics remained.

My thought process was with respect to whether at the point in time that the dogs alerted, if there would of been any gasses released through decomp for the dogs to even alert on.

I am not convinced that there would of been enough decomp for them to alert on.
 
  • #205
I had been looking over some links on a post SuperMom1995 (I hope I got the numbers at the end of your name right) made. It is on circumstantial evidence. It is an awesome post and thought I would bring it up and see what others think.

I"ve watched a lot of trials over the years, and read books about, and transcripts of them. They really fascinate me.

One of the things that always interests (and confounds) me is when the prosecution and defense make their motions and arguments to allow or prohibit certain evidence.

Despite the laws and precedents, it's not cut and dried. It seems that every trial has a list of evidence that's either surprisingly allowed, or surprisingly excluded. It always fascinates me.
 
  • #206
Wasn't the latest search by Wendy's dogs when Bender or someone made the remark that it could have been a dead elk in the lake? That is what I was referring to. I didn't know they had used cadaver dogs in Nov. I guess I was thinking they would use tracking dogs so soon after he disappeared.

ETA: SAR dogs don't search for human remains and yes, they would know those dogs.

Nov 25

It could be a submerged deer or elk or something else," Bender said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...ched-missing-boy-laplata-county#ixzz2PL7tL0S4
 
  • #207
I don't think LE necessarily lies to the media or the public, but they do withhold certain information when it's in their best interests, or when it involves protecting the public and the media's personal safety. Sometimes they do try to minimize the importance of something, but I can only assume they have their reasons for that. As for the K9 alerts, they didn't know those dogs or the handlers, so they couldn't verify whether the alerts had any significance to this case or not.
That's the way I see it anyway.

So often in cases, we are able to determine a number of variables. Most areas have good cell phone coverage, then there are areas that makes the process difficult.

The area around Vallecito presents a number of unique issues.

I agree, LE may not of known the track record of the handlers and dogs. For as much as I know, LE could of already used a ROV. This LE appears to have utilized as many resources that they could.

This area would also be the perfect place to commit a crime.

I apologize, work does have a way of taking my WS's time :giggle:
 
  • #208
  • #209
Wasn't the latest search by Wendy's dogs when Bender or someone made the remark that it could have been a dead elk in the lake? That is what I was referring to. I didn't know they had used cadaver dogs in Nov. I guess I was thinking they would use tracking dogs so soon after he disappeared.

ETA: SAR dogs don't search for human remains and yes, they would know those dogs.

I believe the dead elk comment was from the HRD hits in November. After the K-9 Forensics search, we heard that investigators thought it could be brush.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/02/...d-continues-to-devote-many-resources-to-case/

In the video, 12 seconds in.
 
  • #210
I wonder if MR or anyone in this case was ever mirandized. I know some will say yes, of course he was and perhaps every one else assumes he was. But was he? And are miranda warnings required before every time someone talks to LE, like each time MR interviews or only for specific interviews?
 
  • #211
It's too bad that Wendy's dogs messed up in Montana. That's why Bender said the dogs have been wrong before.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/Repo...es/-/14594602/19097550/-/101pfbt/-/index.html

I originally thought this quote was nonspecific as to which dogs, but I can see how it can be interpreted as these specific dogs. It is a shame that this had to cast even a light shadow on the search - I hope that the K-9 Forensics group will rethink certification status.
 
  • #212
It came from a statement made on Tricia's Show, which is allowed here. It was said by Dylan's mother, who I believe.

ER isn't LE though, therefore, I'm not going to believe that LE asked MR for another poly. LE wouldn't tell ER that anyway.
 
  • #213
Oh I dont either!

These were the first words out of his mouth! They said I failed!

Not it was inconclusive! That came afterwards!


I do think he failed!

Operative words being THEY SAID.
 
  • #214
Ok lets g back to the FACTS.

dylan is Missing
No cell activity after 9 37 pm sunday
Last seen in public at Walmart
Dad never reported him missing
Mom Cory and MH were where they said they were when dylan went missing.
MR did his thing then took a nap.








MR failed his POLY

Two of your points aren't factual. MR did report Dylan missing. And MR said that LE TOLD HIM that he failed the poly. This doesn't mean that he did fail, just that LE told him he did.
 
  • #215
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  • #217
Mark's polygraphs don't give me any great concern because I don't think that they are reliable enough.

I don't know if LE has even asked him to take another test and like Bayou Mistress said maybe Mark has taken a second polygraph for LE that we don't know about.

In my opinion if Mark did pass a polygraph it would not rule him out. MOO.

Polygraphs don't mean squat, IMO. Breann Rodriguez's parents both failed their polygraphs, and it was their neighbor who had abducted and killed Breann. That should tell you something right there.
 
  • #218
Polygraphs don't mean squat, IMO. Breann Rodriguez's parents both failed their polygraphs, and it was their neighbor who had abducted and killed Breann. That should tell you something right there.

I sincerely doubt both of her parents failed their polys, however perhaps LE told them that. IMO polys given by a qualified professional are highly accurate.
 
  • #219
I think there is a reason that these tests can not be compelled. And a reason that they are often excluded from trial. The primary reason being that they are not 100% accurate. At least the polygraph tests have some regulation and VSA has none. Unless I'm mistaken, it's been called a pseudo-science. I think George Zimmerman took a voice stress test and passed it.

I am not condemning their use, I just don't think either are the alpha or omega of an investigation.

LOL...Zimmerman is a sociopath, IMO. I realize that this belongs on a different thread, but VSA isn't as accurate as people like to think either.
 
  • #220
Polygraphs don't mean squat, IMO. Breann Rodriguez's parents both failed their polygraphs, and it was their neighbor who had abducted and killed Breann. That should tell you something right there.

I would agree with you to an extent. A polygraph pass or fail by itself means very little to me. It is just one piece of the puzzle, and it may fit or not. What does mean a lot to me is whether a person is willing to take one. If you have nothing to hide, you should have nothing to fear, IMO.

In this particular case, what means the most to me is that MR kept saying he would take it, and then kept coming up with excuses about why he couldn't - or wouldn't. To me, that speaks volumes... Much more than a passed or failed test would say. Just my opinion.
 
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