CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

[rebeccaeee]

Respectfully, when did Denise become an expert?

She is functioning as spokesperson for FMDR and, as the article states, someone "who has coordinated much of the civilian search for Dylan since he disappeared in November." Not offering EXPERT opinion, just opinion. Unlike us, she has seen the search firsthand. LE obviously thought there was something to the dog hits or they would not have spent two days digging up a portion of the shoreline. It doesn't take an expert to offer an opinion. If it did, WS would be woefully quiet. IMO.

 

[Seajay]

Three different sets of HRD and SAR dogs have alerted on the same areas. Yet each time the area is searched, nothing is found. Nothing. What does that mean???

I'm beginning to agree with Bayou? was it, or maybe it was Emma Ems who said the lake might be on an ancient burial ground. I don't believe it came from tributaries either, I think it's got to do with currents and winds. IMO

 

[mixologist74]

Three different sets of HRD and SAR dogs have alerted on the same areas. Yet each time the area is searched, nothing is found. Nothing. What does that mean???

I'm beginning to agree with Bayou? was it, or maybe it was Emma Ems who said the lake might be on an ancient burial ground. I don't believe it came from tributaries either, I think it's got to do with currents and winds. IMO

IMO, it means there is no body there. Not sure what those dogs are hitting on, but IMO, it sure isn't the body of Dylan Redwine.

 

[azgrandma]

But, doesn't it indicate the dogs were wrong yet again (as Bender said previously)? Are there any recommendations for fresh, highly trained dogs that could be brought in?

Hess said Hope for Dylan Redwine contacted the cadaver dog team best suited for their needs and flew in a handler and her dog that is specifically trained and certified on cadavers, but especially recognizes the scent of human remains on water.
The canine team arrived Tuesday, April 16, and with the assistance of a boat donated by Doc’s Marina began searching Vallecito lake last Wednesday morning.

sounds pretty fresh to me. I could be wrong, but these dogs were just brought in last week. all MOO

 

[ColdHands]

Three different sets of HRD and SAR dogs have alerted on the same areas. Yet each time the area is searched, nothing is found. Nothing. What does that mean???

I'm beginning to agree with Bayou? was it, or maybe it was Emma Ems who said the lake might be on an ancient burial ground. I don't believe it came from tributaries either, I think it's got to do with currents and winds. IMO

http://pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1162

We know there’s a body in the lake (not necessarily Dylan), somewhere in or around the lake in a water source feeding the lake.

I think it would be easiest to eliminate feeder sources as a next step. Depending on which map I looked at there are 5 - 8 sizable streams flowing into the lake. I would take the dog(s) upstream a ways on each of them. No hits means the source is in the lake. Get a hit, and you know the source is upstream. I wonder if this has been done? Although DH's comment makes me think it has not. IMO.

 

[catswhiskers]

Three different sets of HRD and SAR dogs have alerted on the same areas. Yet each time the area is searched, nothing is found. Nothing. What does that mean???

I'm beginning to agree with Bayou? was it, or maybe it was Emma Ems who said the lake might be on an ancient burial ground. I don't believe it came from tributaries either, I think it's got to do with currents and winds. IMO

It's hard to imagine how these clever dogs do the great work they do - tracking HR scent in water just boggles my mind. I imagine that the scent and any matter carrying the scent would be on the move and spread around constantly, even in relatively calm water. Vallecito Lake has looked pretty wild and choppy in some of the pics shown since the thaw.
It seems strange that nothing (that we know of) has been located in those spots identified by numerous dogs. This will sound horribly clinical I know, but perhaps there are small amounts of human tissue/fats/fluids involved that just aren't visible? Just trying to think of an explanation for the results of searches in such specific areas - and hoping above all that it has nothing to do with Dylan.

 

[Money Girl]

Been trying to find more information about the latest canine. (The photos online are beautiful!) From what I have read, this latest search dog has certifications. It is 3 years old, but I have been unable to find any successes attributed to it. Please post if you find records of success.

I wish they would have the canine search the area below Pine River Lodge on the lake side. On Google Earth it appears like red dirt, but there appears to be room for a car to pull over there.

 

[azgrandma]

We discussed this extensively in the Lisa Irwin thread, after a cadaver dog hit in the master bedroom. IIRC, there is no clear consensus that it is in fact just a few moments before a dead body would be able to leave a scent for cadaver dogs. Some said that if a body is moved immediately upon death, if there is no remnants of a bloody struggle, there might not be anything for a dog to find later on. Some disagree, some agreed.

Great point. I don't know about how the dogs are trained and would never pretend to be, IMO, unless a cadaver dog is sitting there at the exact moment a person is killed (which would be an impossible test to conduct) WE don't know how long it takes a dog to detect decomp do we? Typically, they are called out AFTER a person is deceased ,it could be ten minutes, it could be an hour. So unless the dogs are trained at the point of death, how would WE know when decomp scents can be detected.

 

[Money Girl]

Hess said Hope for Dylan Redwine contacted the cadaver dog team best suited for their needs and flew in a handler and her dog that is specifically trained and certified on cadavers, but especially recognizes the scent of human remains on water.
The canine team arrived Tuesday, April 16, and with the assistance of a boat donated by Doc’s Marina began searching Vallecito lake last Wednesday morning.

sounds pretty fresh to me. I could be wrong, but these dogs were just brought in last week. all MOO

Thank you so much. I have since read the article about the new cadaver dog. Was very happy that Elaine found the dog/handler. (I keep saying dog; do you know if more than one fresh canine arrived on April 16, or was it just the one named Biba.)

 

[azgrandma]

Respectfully, when did Denise become an expert?

Respectfully, I do not believe that Denise has ever claimed to be an expert. I do believe that the press was interviewing her and she was sharing the knowledge that she learned from speaking with experts.

 

[azgrandma]

IMO, it means there is no body there. Not sure what those dogs are hitting on, but IMO, it sure isn't the body of Dylan Redwine.

I'm not sure what your expertise is in SAR, I'd be interested to hear how you come to this conclusion. IMO when three different dogs hit on the same area and three different handlers have confidence in their animals, and three different people believe that their dogs hit on a body, IMO that's good enough for me to believe there is a body, who's we don't know. But it sure isn't an elk MOO. I am really curious how so many experts are discounted. What am I missing?

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

Three different sets of HRD and SAR dogs have alerted on the same areas. Yet each time the area is searched, nothing is found. Nothing. What does that mean???

I'm beginning to agree with Bayou? was it, or maybe it was Emma Ems who said the lake might be on an ancient burial ground. I don't believe it came from tributaries either, I think it's got to do with currents and winds. IMO

Spooky. You just stated my thought exactly, to the tee. Something is there. The dogs could not be wrong that many times. (IMO)

 

[Seajay]

IMO, it means there is no body there. Not sure what those dogs are hitting on, but IMO, it sure isn't the body of Dylan Redwine.

That's what I'm hoping it means. I'm just one of those people that will be perfectily happy if they don't find a body in the water, because I do not want Dylan to be dead. I am hoping and praying they don't find anything in the lake. I honestly don't understand why anyone would, ever. It means someone is dead.

 

[azgrandma]

http://pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1162



I think it would be easiest to eliminate feeder sources as a next step. Depending on which map I looked at there are 5 - 8 sizable streams flowing into the lake. I would take the dog(s) upstream a ways on each of them. No hits means the source is in the lake. Get a hit, and you know the source is upstream. I wonder if this has been done? Although DH's comment makes me think it has not. IMO.

What are feeder sources? tia.

 

[mixologist74]

I'm not sure what your expertise is in SAR, I'd be interested to hear how you come to this conclusion. IMO when three different dogs hit on the same area and three different handlers have confidence in their animals, and three different people believe that their dogs hit on a body, IMO that's good enough for me to believe there is a body, who's we don't know. But it sure isn't an elk MOO. I am really curious how so many experts are discounted. What am I missing?

I'm not an expert in SAR, which is why I said IMO. As many searches as have been done since Nov, when the dogs first hit, up til now, when the dogs hit a few days ago, they had side scan sonar plus ROV, and have come up with nothing, IMO, there is nothing to find. Dogs are not always correct.

 

[mixologist74]

What are feeder sources? tia.

Feeder sources, as in tributaries...creeks, rivers, etc.

 

[Money Girl]

What are feeder sources? tia.

This was posted by Rebeccaeee a couple of pages ago: "The lake is fed by five rivers but really the Vallecito Creek and Los Pinos (aka Pine) are the biggies. Pine is very near to the site of the coffer dam."

(I know it's hard to get caught up when the thread is moving so fast.) Hope this helps.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

I am one of the people who would like them to find what is causing the dogs to hit. Not out of some gruesome curiosity. And certainly not because I hope they find Dylan. Whoever is in the lake deserves to be found. The family deserves to know where their loved one is. Because I have followed Dylan's disappearance, I have grown to almost feel like I personally know the family. I've ached for their pain. Whoever is in the lake could just as well have a loving family hurting every bit as much.

 

[Salem]

There is a thread here somewhere for questions for our verified searchers. It was started by SARX, and I wish I knew where it was now.

I believe there is a thread in the Resource Forum regarding search and recovery dogs.

I'll see if I can find the link.

Salem

 

[azgrandma]

I am one of the people who would like them to find what is causing the dogs to hit. Not out of some gruesome curiosity. And certainly not because I hope they find Dylan. Whoever is in the lake deserves to be found. The family deserves to know where their loved one is. Because I have followed Dylan's disappearance, I have grown to almost feel like I personally know the family. I've ached for their pain. Whoever is in the lake could just as well have a loving family hurting every bit as much.

bbm exactly! whoever is in the lake is still the child of someone that deserves answers.