CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

[Redhead72]

His name is not given, but he is one of eleven given. I looked around on other media and could not find anything with the name of the first person mentioned in the article. The person whose computer they found all the data on initially.

Could be that the person arrested for assault is a relative of the minor assaulted, and there are withholding the name now for privacy of the child involved? I've seen that done before.

 

[scorekeeper]

This is the thing that bothers me though - how would the sonar react when the bottom is a forest of tree stumps and brush? Most lakes have a flat, mostly smooth bottom which would make a large object like a body, or backpack, or a fishing pole (less likely) to show up.

The divers couldn't go to the bottom, so even if something were found - how could they have checked it out then?

Like I said in my last comment - I think the ROV cameras would be better than sonar, but that is my opinion. I think to the best of their ability at the time the NM team searched the lake well, but the limitations of their search create too many possibilities that something may have been missed - in my opinion.

All of the above is MOO! :cow:

I can't answer your question(s) about sonar. I totally agree that they need to use top of the line equipment, especially ROV's (as we have discussed and linked numerous times, LOL). The reason being, the lake is deep and full of tree stumps, etc...remember they cut down a forest to make a lake...so I bet the bottom of the lake is full of "hidden" nooks and crannies.

The Cheese (I think) and I are trying to figure out what type of sonar was used....just making conversation...LOL

I often wondered when the divers didn't go down the last day they were on the lake was because their sonar wasn't picking up anything? But that doesn't mean a body isn't down there.

Navejo lake (mentioned in above post with link as to where N.M. SAR does a lot of rescues) is only 25 feet deep.

I think it would be great if we could find out the name of team selected to come in and investigate the lake but I also understand the family not releasing the name.

And also, I am not questioning N.M. SAR either.

JMO

 

[scorekeeper]

The specialists who’ve been contacted use 180-degree sonar on a cable that can be dropped into the water as long as necessary.

If the sonar detects something, a remotely operated underwater vehicle will be used for additional investigation. An ROV is operated remotely by a person on a boat. They are commonly used by deepwater industries.

The areas of the lake that will be searched include the deepest spots along the dam and along the eastern shoreline, Hess said.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2QT329iM8

 

[scorekeeper]

The organization Hess heads, “Find Missing Dylan Redwine,” is trying to raise money to hire teams that specialize in deep water searches.

Several have been contacted, and a couple have told Hess they won’t charge for the search, but their expenses such as lodging and travel need to be paid.

“These people know water, they know how it acts and they have made many, many water recoveries,” Hess said.

The lake has been searched by a search and rescue team from the New Mexico State Patrol. That team included dogs, divers, several boats and sonar.

But there were complications. Because of the lake’s depth — averaging 30 to 40 feet, the altitude of the lake and temperature of the water, divers could stay down only 20 minutes a day, Bender said.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2QT3T0oUC

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

I still would like to see high powered or the sideview sonar used (and not high powered fish finders) plus the ROVs.

I wonder if LE put the "hold" on the lake searchers?

I too thought the Foundation had everything arranged for the searchers and was only waiting for the ice to clear and looking for places for the searchers to stay.

Wonder if something else is leading them elsewhere?

Dylan needs to come home, been way to long...

I wonder if these people have been contacted, or could even reasonably get to Vallecito (17 hours away.) They have the side sonar and train in cold water. There is an article on the web about them recovering a body in 65 ft deep lake(Glacier Park) in September. Since they are LE as well, there would be no problem with working with LE.

http://www.flatheaddiverescue.com/

ETA: Oops not LE. Volunteers working under LE.

 

[cluciano63]

If nothing is found in the lake...then what?
That is what worries me. The lake can never really be cleared absolutely yet there seems to be nowhere else else to search, as the task is so daunting. Look at Katelyn; she was found about thirty miles from home, by chance. An organized search would never have found her, IMO, unless indeed there were pings in that area( if so, she should have been found long ago.) It seems that most missing people are found, if at all, by accident.

 

[scorekeeper]

If nothing is found in the lake...then what?
That is what worries me. The lake can never really be cleared absolutely yet there seems to be nowhere else else to search, as the task is so daunting. Look at Katelyn; she was found about thirty miles from home, by chance. An organized search would never have found her, IMO, unless indeed there were pings in that area( if so, she should have been found long ago.) It seems that most missing people are found, if at all, by accident.

BBM

I totally agree.

I understand the family wanting to "rule out the lake" but you are right, that's an awful big and deep lake to""rule out".

Dylan probably will be found by an "innocent" hiker/fisher/camper or an anonymous tip....I don't see anybody "breaking down" and telling where Dylan is right now.

But I really do understand the family wanting to go back and look at the lake. I can't believe that all those dogs were wrong!

 

[Redhead72]

The organization Hess heads, “Find Missing Dylan Redwine,” is trying to raise money to hire teams that specialize in deep water searches.

Several have been contacted, and a couple have told Hess they won’t charge for the search, but their expenses such as lodging and travel need to be paid.

“These people know water, they know how it acts and they have made many, many water recoveries,” Hess said.

The lake has been searched by a search and rescue team from the New Mexico State Patrol. That team included dogs, divers, several boats and sonar.

But there were complications. Because of the lake’s depth — averaging 30 to 40 feet, the altitude of the lake and temperature of the water, divers could stay down only 20 minutes a day, Bender said.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2QT3T0oUC

The average depth may be 30-40 feet, but by the dam the depth is 167 feet according to one source, and a max. depth of 110 at another source. (I was thinking it was 200+, but was wrong when I stated that before.)

Here are the two references - I think it's safe to assume that in the deepest parts of the Lake/Reservoir it is at least 110 ft. deep, up to 170 ft. deep.

So, if divers could only go down 40 feet due to the pressure and altitude (as referred to in one of the articles back in November), then they definitely couldn't have gone to the bottom in the area by the dam - not 110ft. down.

SOURCE: 110 ft. Maximum Depth
http://www.lakelubbers.com/vallecito-lake-1443/

SOURCE: 167 ft. Depth by the Dam
http://www.eatstayplay.com/html/co/a2198p306c2053.html

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

I totally agree.

I understand the family wanting to "rule out the lake" but you are right, that's an awful big and deep lake to""rule out".

Dylan probably will be found by an "innocent" hiker/fisher/camper or an anonymous tip....I don't see anybody "breaking down" and telling where Dylan is right now.

But I really do understand the family wanting to go back and look at the lake. I can't believe that all those dogs were wrong!

Oh I know they have to have it searched again. I just wonder if nothing is found, will they have confidence that there is no way he could be in the water?

And then I wonder, what, if anything, can or will be done as far as searching. Without any leads, cases all become like Kyron's, i.e searching based on new tips only.

 

[scorekeeper]

The sonar fish is dragged through the water a short distance above the bottom, sending out high-frequency sound pulses to each side, hence the name "Side-Scan Sonar." When a pulse encounters an object, it bounces back as an echo, which the computer interpolates into an image on the monitor. It is amazing to watch an object come onto the screen so clear that is is unquestionably a rock or a bush or a human body.

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/diveteam/equipment.html

This is really interesting reading

 

[scorekeeper]

Oh I know they have to have it searched again. I just wonder if nothing is found, will they have confidence that there is no way he could be in the water?

And then I wonder, what, if anything, can or will be done as far as searching. Without any leads, cases all become like Kyron's, i.e searching based on new tips only.

I don't know about the family but the lake will probably always be on "my list" until Dylan is found.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

This is really interesting. It goes from finished dam backwards in pictures. Not so sure there are a lot of tree stumps at the bottom of Vallecito Reservoir.

http://swcenter.fortlewis.edu/images/D003/D003001.htm

 

[scorekeeper]

http://swcenter.fortlewis.edu/images/D003/D003001Page.htm

looks like a lot of trees to cut down...

 

[Ransom]

Navejo lake (mentioned in above post with link as to where N.M. SAR does a lot of rescues) is only 25 feet deep.


JMO

snipped

The depth of the lake (396&#8217 also makes this one of the best fisheries in the Southwest.

http://www.navajomarina.com/

You were looking at the Navajo lake in UTAH. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Lake_(Utah)

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

http://swcenter.fortlewis.edu/images/D003/D003001Page.htm

looks like a lot of trees to cut down...

Does it to you. The pictures toward the end looked as though the area was almost bare to me. And there is this:

http://www.blackhawkpublishing.com/BP010102Vallecito Stories.htm#The Vallecito Lake & Dam

Not MSM, so could be rumor or just from authors best recollection.

" Fill - 3,738,000 cubic yards of crushed rock and earth,mostly from near the Vallecito

Not sure if that means around the edges or the bottom.

I am just hoping that the bottom is fill. It would make it easier to drag expensive equipment above the floor.

 

[ColdHands]

I keep wondering how the dam is inspected, serviced, maintained? Would they have robotic cameras that could go to that depth to inspect for structural issues? Or some other means to check the lakeside face of the dam?

 

[Redhead72]

Does it to you. The pictures toward the end looked as though the area was almost bare to me. And there is this:

http://www.blackhawkpublishing.com/BP010102Vallecito Stories.htm#The Vallecito Lake & Dam

Not MSM, so could be rumor or just from authors best recollection.

" Fill - 3,738,000 cubic yards of crushed rock and earth,mostly from near the Vallecito

Not sure if that means around the edges or the bottom.

I am just hoping that the bottom is fill. It would make it easier to drag expensive equipment above the floor.

Thanks for posting everything. Looking at those pictures, it does seem that the lakebed was fairly well filled before they flooded it. Certainly not how I pictured it.

I was going by what another poster had mentioned about how the dam and lake were made many threads ago (probably back in December, actually). Their post stated that they basically had cut down the trees, and flooded it - no mention of clearing and filling except for the area right around where the dam is. The pictures of it before filled don't look the same way it was referred to as being.

This is actually a good thing. I'm sure there is some debris at the bottom - the lake has been there for over 70 years now. However, in comparison to how choked with tree stumps and such I was picturing it I would say there would be a lot less down there...

Thanks again for posting the pictures.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

I keep wondering how the dam is inspected, serviced, maintained? Would they have robotic cameras that could go to that depth to inspect for structural issues? Or some other means to check the lakeside face of the dam?

People ask such interesting questions, thought provoking! Your question made me wonder as well. The site linked below does not say for certain, but the Engineer's Sample Inspection Report Form does make it look like they inspect from the spillway side. Too bad, if they used special equipment on the lake side that might have been a great resource.

http://water.state.co.us/SurfaceWater/DamSafety/ExistingDamSafety/Pages/default.aspx

 

[scorekeeper]

snipped

The depth of the lake (396’) also makes this one of the best fisheries in the Southwest.

http://www.navajomarina.com/

You were looking at the Navajo lake in UTAH. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Lake_(Utah)

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Thank you, Ransom, yes I was....I am :blushing:

 

[scorekeeper]

Does it to you. The pictures toward the end looked as though the area was almost bare to me. And there is this:

http://www.blackhawkpublishing.com/BP010102Vallecito Stories.htm#The Vallecito Lake & Dam

Not MSM, so could be rumor or just from authors best recollection.

" Fill - 3,738,000 cubic yards of crushed rock and earth,mostly from near the Vallecito

Not sure if that means around the edges or the bottom.

I am just hoping that the bottom is fill. It would make it easier to drag expensive equipment above the floor.

Oh, Another, I would much rather go with your view of the lake bottom!