CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

[cluciano63]

It would be great if the tv stations would do an alert when a child is missing. I wonder if that would cause people to get too use to them and ignore them. I can tell you, I'd much rather hear a breaking news story about a missing child than hear that Lindsey Lohan is in jail - again, but not really, maybe, she might be, etc. OT when did the news become the Enquirer? MOO

I think the least local news and news sites could do is to keep a photo of a local missing child in the corner of the screen at all times. Really, it would cost nothing to speak of and the local news always harps on how they are "there" for their community.

 

[Seajay]

Oh, I can answer the common excuse I came across while I was trying to search for alerts issued without a known suspect or vehicle description. The excuse most commonly used was to not wear out the system to where it's no longer effective. I guess they think if you used the alert EVERY single time someone was missing people would stop paying attention to them or taking them seriously????

This is how I feel. A lot of kids "suspected" of running away, it's not really clear if they did or not. As in there isn't a note left behind stating that's what they did. Yet a lot of times that's the first conclusion LE sometimes jumps to. Especially with kids of a certain age. Now you have things like sex trafficking that is on the rise, so I think it's a bit outdated to automatically assume kids between the ages of what 11-17 may have runaway.

I think they don't want it to be like car alarms ended up. When they were new, when you heard one, you looked out to see where it was coming from and to see if someone's car was being broken into. But after everyone got one, people started playing with them and setting them off on purpose to annoy the neighbors, or they were set so sensitive that they would sound off with someone on a motorcycle or a car with headers went by, people stopped looking out the window because usually it meant nothing.

I think they see the amber alert thing the same way. If they release one for every missing kid, even one later found hiding under the bed, then people might become desensitized to them and not bother looking anymore. JMO, IMO, MOO. Not that I believe that but it's what it reminds me of.

 

[katydid23]

I think they don't want it to be like car alarms ended up. When they were new, when you heard one, you looked out to see where it was coming from and to see if someone's car was being broken into. But after everyone got one, people started playing with them and setting them off on purpose to annoy the neighbors, or they were set so sensitive that they would sound off with someone on a motorcycle or a car with headers went by, people stopped looking out the window because usually it meant nothing.

I think they see the amber alert thing the same way. If they release one for every missing kid, even one later found hiding under the bed, then people might become desensitized to them and not bother looking anymore. JMO, IMO, MOO. Not that I believe that but it's what it reminds me of.

That is what I am worried about. If they run an amber alert for every missing kid, no matter if there is any real solid info, then it will just be an ongoing drone of information, and will be largely ignored, imo.

Right now I stop everything and pay attention if it scrolls across the tv or breaks into my car radio or I receive a text. But if those start coming a couple of times a day, they will seem much less important to people.

 

[Emma Ems]

I think they don't want it to be like car alarms ended up. When they were new, when you heard one, you looked out to see where it was coming from and to see if someone's car was being broken into. But after everyone got one, people started playing with them and setting them off on purpose to annoy the neighbors, or they were set so sensitive that they would sound off with someone on a motorcycle or a car with headers went by, people stopped looking out the window because usually it meant nothing.

I think they see the amber alert thing the same way. If they release one for every missing kid, even one later found hiding under the bed, then people might become desensitized to them and not bother looking anymore. JMO, IMO, MOO. Not that I believe that but it's what it reminds me of.

That is a pretty good analogy. The only thing that bugs me is the ones that really need them that fall through the cracks, like Dylan. I think he should have gotten one. The cousins in Iowa, they probably could have used one too. Skylar also, she needed one. There is definitely an immediate need to get one issued for the sake of the child and arguing about "is it possible they ran away or were they abducted, we just really aren't sure, so let's figure that out, first" kind of, I can't think of what I am exactly trying to say, but if the circumstances aren't really immediately clear what happened and the need to get out an alert is immediate, then on some levels my opinion is it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Money Girl]

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20130424/NEWS01/130429765/-1/news01&source=RSS

Redwine search fails to find clues

Investigators say location pinpointed by dogs yields nothing


By Jordyn Dahl Herald staff writer

Article Last Updated: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:29pm

 

[cluciano63]

I don't know how much more publicity the Iowa girls would have had with an AA, and it would not have helped the outcome, same with Jessica R. Both turned out to have local end results and probably happened pretty quickly.

Without a vehicle description, and most abducted children are taken into a vehicle, there is very little that can be done by the public. The perp is not going to allow the child to be visible in the initial hours, days and even weeks (if they happen to still be alive). Everything pretty much comes down to a vehicle, and if lucky, a suspect description. Hate to be blunt, but many kids look much the same, at least according to basic descriptions and often poor or dated photos.

I do believe Amber Alert should equal having a car description but that any missing child should have TV and other media alerts ASAP, which is often the case anyway.

 

[Ransom]

Let's cut to the chase here.

"Most" here think MR "offed/killed" Dylan. What good would an AA do in this case?

West Virginia???????? ....... link wasn't posted, but they want some "Czar" to make the decision
http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/eyewitness/130323_14826.shtml Good for them. Enact any law you wish

Page 1 of this case: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8569677&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO - Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 - #1[/ame]

I and all of US just want DR to be found. That's all.

 

[diveguy]

Greetings - I haven't been active in a while, but definitely trying to read up when I can and keep current. I am a single parent of a 9 year old boy, and to be honest following daily started to make me a bit depressed so I stepped back for a bit. Just watching from a distance and not being able to help directly is also a bit frustrating.

I read some questions regarding the water depth and capabilities of divers, and without specific questions, all I can add is some general info. on the limitations of diving and what I think are best procedures based on my experience. All my opinion, coming as a 20+ year dive instructor and former search and rescue diver (a long time ago).

There can be a lot of complicating factors in diving a high altitude lake. Low visibility seems to be the case at Lake V, and underwater trees/snags, uneven terrain, and cold water add to the difficulty. Due to decompression issues, at 8,000 feet elevation, a scuba diver breathing air (vs. other mixtures divers sometimes use), at 60 feet can dive a maximum of 25 minutes. After a surface interval of 4 hours, he could dive again to 40 feet for about 30 minutes (very ballpark figures). So it is limiting, and if the area dived is much deeper than 60-80 feet it would be very difficult to dive and search that depth for any length of time.

Professional recovery dive teams now use ROV's and drop cameras to search areas more safely, and those may be the best option in Lake Vallecito. That being said, if the stories are true that the lake was at 30% capacity last November when the first dive team went in, I suggest that it was a huge opportunity lost to really search the lake with divers. In my opinion, with a child missing, dogs indicating a scent on the lake, and snowfall coming, a much more thorough search should have been done with a much larger dive team (just my opinion, I don't know all the factors involved).

I did just read the newspaper article that showed the police searching the shoreline and building a coffer dam (not too sure why they did that). IMO, a small chain of snorkelers in the water (say 6 or 8), searching parallel to the shoreline could probably cover to a depth of 10 feet, would have been far more effective and thorough. Add 4 scuba divers at a safe depth of 30-40 feet, also swimming parallel to shore just beyond the snorkelers, and a lot of territory could be safely and relatively easily covered.

I would also get the canines out there just before the dive search and see if the area could be narrowed down. Scent dogs are amazing, and they have been known to narrow down search areas significantly, even if a body is deep underwater. If they narrowed it down to even a 100 yard x 50 yard area (about the size of a football field) a very thorough search could be made. It seems odd that they're just searching the shoreline and water down to waist deep. Setting up a snorkeling team or getting one from a neighboring police dive team doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. I'd volunteer myself if it was an option.

Everything is based on what I know if this case, which definitely isn't everything, so I could be off base here. Also, all is my opinion only. I know there are hundreds of professional law enforcement officers, investigators, etc. who sincerely want to help so I don't want to toss unfair criticism their way.

Fingers crossed. While I believe I know the answer to the mystery, my 1% is hanging on for him to escape from a kidnapper and come home safely.

 

[Ransom]

if the stories are true that the lake was at 30% capacity last November

snipped

WHAT? Where did that come from? The Vallecito Reservoir (VR) was 30% capacity??????????? <MODSNIP> That is SO not true.

VR has never, ever been 30% capacity in my lifetime. EVER and I've been to VR for over 30 years. AND it certainly was not this past Nov, 2012. JMO

:scared: <modsnip> Off to bed.

 

[diveguy]

snipped

WHAT? Where did that come from? The Vallecito Reservoir (VR) was 30% capacity??????????? <modsnip> That is SO not true.

VR has never, ever been 30% capacity in my lifetime. EVER and I've been to VR for over 30 years. AND it certainly was not this past Nov, 2012. JMO

:scared: <modsnip> Off to bed.

My source was unverified, but here from an earlier discussion:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195455"]CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
"The water level during the summer was only about 30% of total capacity though, so I don't suspect those pipes will be opened anytime soon."

 

[Ransom]

My source was unverified, but here from an earlier discussion:

CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
"The water level during the summer was only about 30% of total capacity though, so I don't suspect those pipes will be opened anytime soon."

Your link doesn't work. Took me to a closed page HERE. Just "click" on the post # and then copy/paste here. Would love to see where the heck that came from.

NEED a valid link for 30% of capacity for VR in Nov 2012? <modsnip>

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Greetings - I haven't been active in a while, but definitely trying to read up when I can and keep current. I am a single parent of a 9 year old boy, and to be honest following daily started to make me a bit depressed so I stepped back for a bit. Just watching from a distance and not being able to help directly is also a bit frustrating.

I read some questions regarding the water depth and capabilities of divers, and without specific questions, all I can add is some general info. on the limitations of diving and what I think are best procedures based on my experience. All my opinion, coming as a 20+ year dive instructor and former search and rescue diver (a long time ago).

There can be a lot of complicating factors in diving a high altitude lake. Low visibility seems to be the case at Lake V, and underwater trees/snags, uneven terrain, and cold water add to the difficulty. Due to decompression issues, at 8,000 feet elevation, a scuba diver breathing air (vs. other mixtures divers sometimes use), at 60 feet can dive a maximum of 25 minutes. After a surface interval of 4 hours, he could dive again to 40 feet for about 30 minutes (very ballpark figures). So it is limiting, and if the area dived is much deeper than 60-80 feet it would be very difficult to dive and search that depth for any length of time.

Professional recovery dive teams now use ROV's and drop cameras to search areas more safely, and those may be the best option in Lake Vallecito. That being said, if the stories are true that the lake was at 30% capacity last November when the first dive team went in, I suggest that it was a huge opportunity lost to really search the lake with divers. In my opinion, with a child missing, dogs indicating a scent on the lake, and snowfall coming, a much more thorough search should have been done with a much larger dive team (just my opinion, I don't know all the factors involved).

I did just read the newspaper article that showed the police searching the shoreline and building a coffer dam (not too sure why they did that). IMO, a small chain of snorkelers in the water (say 6 or 8), searching parallel to the shoreline could probably cover to a depth of 10 feet, would have been far more effective and thorough. Add 4 scuba divers at a safe depth of 30-40 feet, also swimming parallel to shore just beyond the snorkelers, and a lot of territory could be safely and relatively easily covered.

I would also get the canines out there just before the dive search and see if the area could be narrowed down. Scent dogs are amazing, and they have been known to narrow down search areas significantly, even if a body is deep underwater. If they narrowed it down to even a 100 yard x 50 yard area (about the size of a football field) a very thorough search could be made. It seems odd that they're just searching the shoreline and water down to waist deep. Setting up a snorkeling team or getting one from a neighboring police dive team doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. I'd volunteer myself if it was an option.

Everything is based on what I know if this case, which definitely isn't everything, so I could be off base here. Also, all is my opinion only. I know there are hundreds of professional law enforcement officers, investigators, etc. who sincerely want to help so I don't want to toss unfair criticism their way.

Fingers crossed. While I believe I know the answer to the mystery, my 1% is hanging on for him to escape from a kidnapper and come home safely.

I appreciate your opinion on this Diveguy. Using snorkeling teams in the shallow waters makes sense to me. It would be less evasive than pumping water out with high capacity pumps.

I'm wondering if the pumps that LE used in the coffer dam area may have destroyed evidence instead of helping to collect it.

 

[catswhiskers]

Your link doesn't work. Took me to a closed page HERE. Just "click" on the post # and then copy/paste here. Would love to see where the heck that came from.

NEED a valid link for 30% of capacity for VR in Nov 2012? <modsnip>

Hi Ransom - I found this link that was posted back when the discussion about water levels was in full swing:

The Cortez Journal, Dec 17 2012

 

[ColdHands]

I think this chart looks like it was pretty close to 30%. 120000 acre ft storage at max, looks like 37000 in Nov 2012. The current teacup diagram on the same site says current conditions Vallecito is only at 45% storage. IMO, 30% is reasonable.

http://www.usbr.gov/uc/wcao/water/rsvrs/studies/vr_24month.html

So what does that mean? It means a lot of shoreline was exposed. Are they thinking something was buried on the shore? I just find it difficult to believe that searchers wouldn't have seen disturbed sand/dirt on the shoreline when they walked it last November. IMO.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Hi Ransom - I found this link that was posted back when the discussion about water levels was in full swing:

The Cortez Journal, Dec 17 2012

from the article you posted

'Ryan Christianson, group chief of the Southern Water Management Group of the Bureau of Reclamation in Durango, said Vallecito Reservoir is 30 percent full; Lemon is 19 percent full; McPhee, 51 percent; Navajo, 57 percent; and Lake Nighthorse, 94 percent.'

IMO he would have a very good idea of what the water storage levels were.

 

[Redhead72]

Dive Guy - Thank you so much for your input!

I see you are talking about depths of 40-60 feet, and the challenges associated with decompression and such.

I am curious if even in the Spring/Summer would it be possible, at that altitude - even with the warmer water - to dive 80-100 ft or more at all? (The deepest part of the lake by the dam is apparently around that depth currently - 167 ft. is the max. depth if the reservoir was 100% full).

The biggest concern as far as depth of the dive at that altitude is the decompression issue, correct? I'm wondering if the ROV's and 360 drop sonar and such actually found something, would a diver be able to get to that spot for any length of time, or would they have to rely on the ROV and such to retrieve anything found?

Thanks in advance for any information you can share. I understand having a young boy at home that this would be an extremely emotional case for you to follow. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Emma Ems]

Dive Guy - Thank you so much for your input!

I see you are talking about depths of 40-60 feet, and the challenges associated with decompression and such.

I am curious if even in the Spring/Summer would it be possible, at that altitude - even with the warmer water - to dive 80-100 ft or more at all? (The deepest part of the lake by the dam is apparently around that depth currently - 167 ft. is the max. depth if the reservoir was 100% full).

The biggest concern as far as depth of the dive at that altitude is the decompression issue, correct? I'm wondering if the ROV's and 360 drop sonar and such actually found something, would a diver be able to get to that spot for any length of time, or would they have to rely on the ROV and such to retrieve anything found?

Thanks in advance for any information you can share. I understand having a young boy at home that this would be an extremely emotional case for you to follow. Thanks again for your input.

I was just coming to post nearly the same first question as yours, I hope he comes back soon, because I was really curious to see if actually diving all the way to the bottom of the 167' depth is even possible for a human diver.

If the area the dogs were alerting to was 40' back in November(I hate math) I wonder what the depth would be in May?

 

[*Lash*]

Mother Speaks About Updates In Search For Dylan Redwine

http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/8809763-mother-speaks-about-updates-in-search-for-dylan-redwine/

ETA - I am so sorry Elaine. My heart breaks for you.

 

[Lordeebee]

So the Tuesday coffer dam search was at the east side of the lake at Middle Mountain Campground where Wendy's dogs alerted, and then on Wednesday they set up another coffer dam search on the north end of the lake? It is so strange imo that there could be canine alerts at two areas such a distance from each other.

Or did the news report get it wrong about LE searching the north end:
Video at about :33
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/search-for-dylan-redwine-shifts-to-lake

 

[rebeccaeee]

So the Tuesday coffer dam search was at the east side of the lake at Middle Mountain Campground where Wendy's dogs alerted, and then on Wednesday they set up another coffer dam search on the north end of the lake? It is so strange imo that there could be canine alerts at two areas such a distance from each other.

Or did the news report get it wrong about LE searching the north end:
Video at about :33
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/search-for-dylan-redwine-shifts-to-lake

I think the coffer dam (only one?) was set up in the general northeast corner of the lake. One area, one dam, one search. Cannot determine to my satisfaction if this was based on the K-9 Forensic dog hits or recent LE dog hits. Also thinking scent from water washing up on shore for shoreline dog hits. Those dogs might well have hit on the water as well this week *if they had been brought out ON the water.*