CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

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  • #1,021
I don't think there were various hits in different area's but more like repeated hits in the same area's by different dogs FWIW.

Respectfully snipped to area of focus

There were various hits in different areas. Hits on the southern end of the lake, and then hits 4.5 miles away just above the middle of the eastern side of the lake. Hits on both the south and east were in both the water and on the land. The hit on the land on the mid-east were 12 feet from the water.

Lost a sentence here. Adding it back in. The southern end of the lake is very long. The hits along the southern end were also in different areas - total of 4 to 5 different areas from just glancing through the information available (I'm working on a chart of all the areas the dogs alerted.)

Links in the Search thread to all the above.
 
  • #1,022
I have some family who are in the area that know about the native Americans and their burial. Most burials around that area are not where it's flat. They are under rock shelf's and in more private areas. Not out in the open. And they would never be where water would be. They would not contaminate their water source. MOO

And I would agree that another reason for not burying close to the existing river would be the fear of contaminating the water source. The Indians knew that the rivers could rise and they would not have taken the chance of getting too close to the water.
 
  • #1,023
Respectfully snipped to area of focus

There were various hits in different areas. Hits on the southern end of the lake, and then hits 4.5 miles away just above the middle of the eastern side of the lake. Hits on both the south and east were in both the water and on the land. The hit on the land on the mid-east were 12 feet from the water.


Links in the Search thread to all the above.

Yes multiple hits in the same area's of the south at the dam/power plant and the east at Middle Mountain campground. I thought it was 12 feet in from the shore (as in in the water not the land)? Do you have a link saying 12 feet from the water on land?
 
  • #1,024
Yes multiple hits in the same area's of the south at the dam/power plant and the east at Middle Mountain campground. I thought it was 12 feet in from the shore (as in in the water not the land)? Do you have a link saying 12 feet from the water on land?

Yes there are links to all the info in the Search thread.
 
  • #1,025
  • #1,026
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/03/ng.01.html

REDWINE: You know, I didn`t really think anything of it just because, you know, when he`s been with his dad here before, which was over Labor Day weekend was the most recent since we`ve moved -- you know, he kind of did his own thing as far as with his friends. And so I would text him and be, like, you know, Are you having fun? And it wouldn`t be a prescribed time. It would just kind of be more throughout the day, just me, you know, telling him I loved him and just kind of reaching out to him.

But he -- you know, on a daily basis, he would definitely always get in touch with me and generally...

GRACE: What`s this business about bad cell reception in that area? Was there bad cell reception? Did you have a problem hearing from him back on Labor Day, the last time he had visited his dad?

So mom said Dylan was with dad over labor day and dad says he saw him Aug and then the next time was at the court hearing at the end of Aug.
 
  • #1,027
Thanks but I'm not going to go searching :)

It's all right at the end of the thread. I've been working hard at putting all the search info over there to make it easier for everyone to look it up.
 
  • #1,028
From the Pine River Times

Sheriff’s Office spokesman Dan Bender said from the site Tuesday afternoon, “It’s one of the areas where (search) dogs alerted. It’s right on the shore, and the water level is rising.”
 
  • #1,029
Indian burial sites along the Missouri River have eroded over the years, and as water levels on the river have dropped, bones and other funerary objects have been exposed from Pickstown to Wakpala. The tribes have gone to court to force the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to protect the exposed sites. One such legal battle over remains discovered at North Point Recreation Area near Pickstown is scheduled to be heard in court in the next few weeks.

http://www.nathpo.org/News/NAGPRA/News-NAGPRA9.html

Utility workers have stumbled across what may be the latest evidence of a Native American village on an Ogeechee River peninsula.

http://savannahnow.com/stories/032800/LOCburial.shtml

General View of Site
The site lies within the western limits of the city of Oconto with the burial area about 150 yards north of the Oconto River. Specifically it is within Part 4 of Government Lot 8, Section 24 of Oconto Township, and is now the property of the Oconto Historical Society. The area was formerly a fairly level one1, but commercial gravel operations during the 1920's removed and disturbed a large area and there is little doubt that a considerable portion of the burial site was destroyed in the process. It is probable that the burial site originally enclosed an area at least 100 feet square. There is no indication of mounds. Beneath the eight-inch topsoil lie several feet of Plainfield fine sand, underlain by gravel.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wioconto/CopperCultureCemetery.htm

The city's central area consists of a series of platform mounds around a 100 acre plaza, fortified with a stockade on three sides and the river on the fourth.

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/moundville.html

Still in the process of researching this, but Indians often lived near water sources. When the Indians lived the water source could have been a small river, or creek, that grew over time(erosion tends to turn creeks into rivers, and rivers often become lakes if there is heavy flooding. There have been quite a few places where drought has caused grave sites to be found. I have one more link, I found this one interesting, it's an old wild west town that was covered by a lake.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...pleted-texas-lakes-expose-ghost-towns-graves/
 
  • #1,030
From the Pine River Times

Yep right on the shore, 12 feet from the water. There are even pictures and videos that have been posted of them digging there with shovels.

Search_for_Dylan_Redwine_shifts_to_lake_870430001_20130424172746_640_480.JPG


link for pic http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/search-for-dylan-redwine-shifts-to-lake

"It was something 12 feet from the shore dogs sniffed out"

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9308736&postcount=122"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO - Dylan Redwine missing from Vallecito ***SEARCH DISCUSSION ONLY***[/ame]
 
  • #1,031
Honestly, I will shave my head if Native American remains from ancient times are the cause of these hits.
 
  • #1,032
Yep right on the shore, 12 feet from the water. There are even pictures and videos that have been posted of them digging there with shovels.

It looks to me like they were digging and filling sandbags. If you look closely you can see the 3 guys squatting holding the bags open.
 
  • #1,033
I took that to mean 12 ft into the water not on land. They were filling sandbags. Look at the coffer dam. It's made with sandbags.

They dug 15 -50 feet deep while constructing the dam. How on earth did the Indians dig deeper than that to bury their remains?
 
  • #1,034
<modsnip>

Well with all respect I still see nothing about hits 12 ft from the shore on land. Do you see the guy on the far right squatting with his arms out like one would do while holding a sandbag open? Respectfully I think you're assuming they're digging for a body there.
 
  • #1,035
If there was a Native American burial ground, then they could not have built the dam there, imo. I think the local historical society would have intervened and stopped the project. JMO

With all due respect, I don't think the US Government was as sensitive to things like this when Vallecito Lake was built. Just from my personal knowledge acquired through years of genealogy and ancestral research, I feel certain those early settlers had burial grounds close to streams and rivers. My ancestors had family cemeteries close to the James River in VA and close to other streams.
 
  • #1,036
http://www.nathpo.org/News/NAGPRA/News-NAGPRA9.html



http://savannahnow.com/stories/032800/LOCburial.shtml



http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wioconto/CopperCultureCemetery.htm

The city's central area consists of a series of platform mounds around a 100 acre plaza, fortified with a stockade on three sides and the river on the fourth.

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/moundville.html

Still in the process of researching this, but Indians often lived near water sources. When the Indians lived the water source could have been a small river, or creek, that grew over time(erosion tends to turn creeks into rivers, and rivers often become lakes if there is heavy flooding. There have been quite a few places where drought has caused grave sites to be found. I have one more link, I found this one interesting, it's an old wild west town that was covered by a lake.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...pleted-texas-lakes-expose-ghost-towns-graves/



Dear Emma Ems,

Thank you for the links. I believe, however, that we might want to be focusing on the Ute, and the topography of the Vallecito area, as opposed to other indigenous peoples in different regions.

This is some fairly basic information on Ute burial practices from Encyclopedia.com. If you're interested, I have other sources that I might be able to scan and upload at home (I have an interest in Native American culture).

HTH.

BBM

"Death and Afterlife. Death was a time of community and individual loss and was formally observed by abstentions from certain behaviors and by acts such as hair cutting. Mourning lasted up to a year. Care was taken to ensure that the ghost of the deceased did not return, although it was generally held that the soul lingered near the body for several days. All souls went to an afterlife similar to this world. Burial and funeral customs included burning the house wherein death occurred and the destruction of most personal property, which sometimes included horses, dogs, and slaves. Bodies were washed, dressed, and wrapped and buried, extended, in a rock-covered grave in the mountains."
 
  • #1,037
  • #1,038
I took that to mean 12 ft into the water not on land. They were filling sandbags. Look at the coffer dam. It's made with sandbags.

They dug 15 -50 feet deep while constructing the dam. How on earth did the Indians bury deeper than that to bury their remains?

Well with all respect I still see nothing about hits 12 ft from the shore on land. Do you see the guy on the far right squatting with his arms out like one would do while holding a sandbag open? Respectfully I think you're assuming they're digging for a body there.

I didn't say anything about native americans. You and I were talking about the hits on the east side of the lake.

Regardless, we see the issue of the dog alerts differently, and will have to agree to disagree and move on.

<modsnip>
 
  • #1,039
Dear Emma Ems,

Thank you for the links. I believe, however, that we might want to be focusing on the Ute, and the topography of the Vallecito area, as opposed to other indigenous peoples in different regions.

This is some fairly basic information on Ute burial practices from Encyclopedia.com. If you're interested, I have other sources that I might be able to scan and upload at home (I have an interest in Native American culture).

HTH.

BBM

"Death and Afterlife. Death was a time of community and individual loss and was formally observed by abstentions from certain behaviors and by acts such as hair cutting. Mourning lasted up to a year. Care was taken to ensure that the ghost of the deceased did not return, although it was generally held that the soul lingered near the body for several days. All souls went to an afterlife similar to this world. Burial and funeral customs included burning the house wherein death occurred and the destruction of most personal property, which sometimes included horses, dogs, and slaves. Bodies were washed, dressed, and wrapped and buried, extended, in a rock-covered grave in the mountains."

There were other Indians there before the Ute.
 
  • #1,040
There were other Indians there before the Ute.

Yes there were. Since I don't live in that area, I have read a lot of books, articles to acquaint myself with the history.
 
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