CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #52

[Lordeebee]

This is an excellent question, Lordeebee. Thank you for posting it. I've been googling for information on it.

It appears we have a "right to travel", but there is no constitutional basis for it, but rather a doctrinal basis.

Nevertheless, it seems that police can ask you not to leave the area or the state, or even tell you not to leave the area or the state, but you can still do so, provided:

- you haven't been arrested

- a judge hasn't ordered you to stay in your home, area, town, county, state, whatever

No links at this time, because I'm still researching it.

I appreciate your search efforts -- I started in and was running into military and other countries' laws, and then got frustrated and gave up. Will be interested to see what you find.

 

[rebeccaeee]

Right here

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

So temps in the 40s and no precipitation. I'm thinking about ways to hide a body (and no, this doesn't mean I've given up hope on welcoming a live Dylan home, just being pragmatic). The ground would have been very hard to dig and the snows would not have come yet. If not the lake, then somewhere in the surrounding mountain area. If so, the snow would have come and covered everything about three weeks later. As the snow melts, evidence could be scattered and carried all over the wilderness. Remains would be skeletal at this point, right? So other good evidence to be looking for would include clothes and backpack which might withstand the snow and snowmelt.

Anyone know how much snow is left on those mountains?

 

[The Cheese]

So temps in the 40s and no precipitation. I'm thinking about ways to hide a body (and no, this doesn't mean I've given up hope on welcoming a live Dylan home, just being pragmatic). The ground would have been very hard to dig and the snows would not have come yet. If not the lake, then somewhere in the surrounding mountain area. If so, the snow would have come and covered everything about three weeks later. As the snow melts, evidence could be scattered and carried all over the wilderness. Remains would be skeletal at this point, right? So other good evidence to be looking for would include clothes and backpack which might withstand the snow and snowmelt.

Anyone know how much snow is left on those mountains?

BBM. That's one of the reasons for many of the items on my wish list I posted. Those items are important to look for whether Dylan is deceased, or whether he was taken alive and something got tossed along the way.

I was reading some articles about a 4 year old little girl who was kidnapped and brutally raped (she is alive), and one of the most important pieces of evidence was her DNA on the perp's shorts which were found in his girlfriend's apartment.

It got me thinking of things like Jessica Ridgeway's backpack which was found and how it had the perp's touch DNA on it, and that DNA matched DNA from an attempted abduction of a jogger.

Finding these items of Dylan's is, I think, something important to focus on. God forbid someone across one of them, and just walks on by because they don't know what Dylan's items look like, and think it's just trash or something.

So again, no matter what happened to Dylan - even an accident - if someone could find one of those items, it has the potential to provide valuable clues to LE.

All my opinion.

 

[azgrandma]

I'm wondering if MR had to give or willingly gave his phone to LE on Monday night. It would be interesting to see the number of calls and text messages sent from MR to Dylan on Monday.

Just thinking about the number of suspect that call a victim after the fact, it's a poor attempt to make it look as if you (the suspect) was unaware anything happened. Jodi Arias comes to my mind as one. MOO

 

[La Louve]

So temps in the 40s and no precipitation. I'm thinking about ways to hide a body (and no, this doesn't mean I've given up hope on welcoming a live Dylan home, just being pragmatic). The ground would have been very hard to dig and the snows would not have come yet. If not the lake, then somewhere in the surrounding mountain area. If so, the snow would have come and covered everything about three weeks later. As the snow melts, evidence could be scattered and carried all over the wilderness. Remains would be skeletal at this point, right? So other good evidence to be looking for would include clothes and backpack which might withstand the snow and snowmelt.

Anyone know how much snow is left on those mountains?

I was just researching ski areas near Bayfield/Durango and Durango Mountain Resort reports 191 inches for the season, but not how much is remaining. The pass elevation there is over 10,000 feet so I would imagine there is still snow on slopes that are protected.

I drove around Mt. Hood a couple weekends ago and I was surprised how much snow was still on the ground, even alongside the highway in places.

 

[La Louve]

I'm wondering if MR had to give or willingly gave his phone to LE on Monday night. It would be interesting to see the number of calls and text messages sent from MR to Dylan on Monday.

Just thinking about the number of suspect that call a victim after the fact, it's a poor attempt to make it look as if you (the suspect) was unaware anything happened. Jodi Arias comes to my mind as one. MOO

I was also wondering about any answering machines that LE may have taken.

 

[Emma Ems]

Hi Tonto!

I don't believe taking a nap is evil at all. I just have a problem connecting the dots because I do not see where Mark's actions and his words mesh. Here is an example from the MB interview.


Mark Redwine:
Well, we had talked about a couple things … he was here for such a short time, we didn’t have anything nailed down, you know, I anticipated and was correct in assuming he wanted to spend time with his friends, so that Monday, Tuesday… Wednesday was kind of up in the air because that was the day we could either travel to Colorado ….err not Colorado Springs but Castle Rock where my brother lives, ‘cos he had made mention about wanting to go over there, …or he could hang out with his friends and come up here, you know… just the two of us would spend Thanksgiving and then he could focus on spending the rest of the time he was here with his friends.. you know... I mean… I just wanted him to be happy. So, when he wants to spend time with his friends I get that – I understand that. I have no problem with that.

All I need to know is that he’s safe and where he’s at, and how to get a hold of him, and it’s likely I’ll pop in on him -- Check to make sure he’s at where he says he’s at. Those things were important to me. You know… when he’s with me – it’s me and him, with the exception of his friends. You know… I know those are important to him, but … you know… I monitor what he does, where he’s at. You know… it’s just me and him. There’s not people coming and going in my life ‘cos everything I focus on is him and us being together spending that time.

This was the biggest point I was trying to make yesterday with ER answering that question about Dylan's texting habits. To me it really is like BOTH ER and MR were pretty lax parents in regards to Dylan and his whereabouts. People can tell me all day long that ER meant when he was with his dad, but that's not the question NG asked. NG was trying to get an understanding of how Dylan was usually in every day life. NG is not one of my favorite people in the world, but when she thinks something is off or something she tends to hammer("Let me get this straight") ER's first answer was like D had to text her EVERY time she texted, and NG pressed and then it went into that "landed for the night." My point was if I read that the way it looked, it looked bad. I don't think that's what it was at all. What I really think is going on is that neither of these parents want to be criticized for being too laxed with D, or to think that their parenting style could have played a role(which I don't think they should be self blaming or questioning themselves) so they both started off describing their parenting as "strict" but everything else tends to contradict that, with their lack of alarm that he didn't text back Sun(for ER) and Mon(Both MR and ER) or that he wasn't home when he came back from running errands(MR.) It gives me the impression that they both trust D not to do anything "stupid" and that he usually turned up and maybe they never felt they had to worry about something like this. You find in a lot of cases that most parents of missing children say something along the lines of, "I never thought something like this would happen to us."

I just wanted to point out that if I just took their words or descriptions at face value, then(no need to cover MR's cause it's been covered in that discussion line earlier) ER's was alarming too as it does read at face value, that D could have spent the night somewhere and not asked permission and checked in the next morning. Instead of that though, I took that in addition to other interviews and looked at how their actions contradicted what they said or were inline. My personal opinion is that NG is intimidating and I wouldn't want to endure her scrutiny. I did not get the impression at all(because further in the interview she spoke about how texting went with D when he was visiting his dad) that she was speaking of D when he was with his friends while visiting his dad, but when he lived in Bayfield and spent the night with his friends. I don't think she was as lax as her wording made it look, but that Dylan would go to a friend's and maybe if he didn't come home from that friend's he would check in, but she generally knew he was with his friend initially.

This entire post is MOO.

 

[Lordeebee]

This might have been brought up in a previous thread but I also wonder if there any old mines up in the nearby mountains.

LaLouve, isn't that where the perp took the body in our local case -- up past a gate where there was no vehicle access?

 

[Lordeebee]

I got the definite impression that Elaine was referring to when Dylan was visiting his father, just by the context surrounding the sentence. (I wont post it again since it was already posted several times). But I really don't see what it matters in relation to finding Dylan anyway.

 

[La Louve]

LaLouve, isn't that where the perp took the body in our local case -- up past a gate where there was no vehicle access?

Hi Lordeebee, was that up on Larch Mountain where Holt disposed of Whitney Heichel's body? I seem to recall that being the case with the gate.

 

[krussell1970]

So temps in the 40s and no precipitation. I'm thinking about ways to hide a body (and no, this doesn't mean I've given up hope on welcoming a live Dylan home, just being pragmatic). The ground would have been very hard to dig and the snows would not have come yet. If not the lake, then somewhere in the surrounding mountain area. If so, the snow would have come and covered everything about three weeks later. As the snow melts, evidence could be scattered and carried all over the wilderness. Remains would be skeletal at this point, right? So other good evidence to be looking for would include clothes and backpack which might withstand the snow and snowmelt.

Anyone know how much snow is left on those mountains?

I was just in the area last week. I didn't see any snow at all, but I'm willing to bet there might be a bit in really shady spots at really high elevations. Hope that helps!

 

[Lordeebee]

Hi Lordeebee, was that up on Larch Mountain where Holt disposed of Whitney Heichel's body? I seem to recall that being the case with the gate.

Yeah I think he took Whitney past the gate, I'm assuming in an attempt to delay the discovery of her body.

 

[Lordeebee]

This might have been brought up in a previous thread but I also wonder if there any old mines up in the nearby mountains.

Would the locals have a map or knowledge of where all the abandoned mines are? If so, maybe its not such a stretch to check them all out (if they haven't already?). Also where there is logging activity, past and present sites.

 

[ColdHands]

I believe that knowing what belongings (backpack contents, clothing, etc) were with him is very important because they'll last the elements for a while. Could also be scattered by animals so even if the body is hard to find, something like a backpack could still turn up. So I hope there are plenty of signs posted for hikers/recreational people so they know what to keep an eye out for. I wonder if there are posters at the campgrounds, cabins, marina and the RV park?

I also think that heading up Vallecito Creek makes a ton of sense. It seems that it is more difficult to find bodies in creeks/rivers than I thought - based on some of the recent cases discussed in WS. Plus would that help explain hits on the lake? If the scent (or perhaps some small samples of remains) were brought down from higher upstream?

This is another area that I hope was discussed with the friends, especially T - are there any areas upcreek that Dylan would have gone fishing? or was that only at the lake?

Oh and the mines too - maybe there's one or two well-known locations that should be, and could easily be, checked?

 

[rebeccaeee]

Yeah I think he took Whitney past the gate, I'm assuming in an attempt to delay the discovery of her body.

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, that's what I was thinking-- that access behind/beyond the gate might have been easy to get in November but not since then. Same with the campground areas around the lake. Gates have been closed from Dec to Memorial Day but most have opened up since then. You can delay finding evidence of a crime but I really believe summer searches will yield information. Call me crazy but I do.

 

[Lordeebee]

I believe that knowing what belongings (backpack contents, clothing, etc) were with him is very important because they'll last the elements for a while. Could also be scattered by animals so even if the body is hard to find, something like a backpack could still turn up. So I hope there are plenty of signs posted for hikers/recreational people so they know what to keep an eye out for. I wonder if there are posters at the campgrounds, cabins, marina and the RV park?

I also think that heading up Vallecito Creek makes a ton of sense. It seems that it is more difficult to find bodies in creeks/rivers than I thought - based on some of the recent cases discussed in WS. Plus would that help explain hits on the lake? If the scent (or perhaps some small samples of remains) were brought down from higher upstream?

This is another area that I hope was discussed with the friends, especially T - are there any areas upcreek that Dylan would have gone fishing? or was that only at the lake?

Oh and the mines too - maybe there's one or two well-known locations that should be,
and could easily be, checked?

The question about HRD hits on the lake that originated up one of the river/creek feeds--i asked twice back when we had the expert and I would swear that particular question was not answered.

 

[ColdHands]

Hm. If the creek is flowing down from a wilderness area, what are the access points above the campground? Is there a hiking/ATV trail? Is there anywhere upstream with vehicle access?

I've got to take off for a bit, but I can spend some time this evening researching access to Vallecito Creek above the campground. I'm assuming the campground area was pretty thoroughly searched, probably multiple times.

 

[La Louve]

I believe that knowing what belongings (backpack contents, clothing, etc) were with him is very important because they'll last the elements for a while. Could also be scattered by animals so even if the body is hard to find, something like a backpack could still turn up. So I hope there are plenty of signs posted for hikers/recreational people so they know what to keep an eye out for. I wonder if there are posters at the campgrounds, cabins, marina and the RV park?

I also think that heading up Vallecito Creek makes a ton of sense. It seems that it is more difficult to find bodies in creeks/rivers than I thought - based on some of the recent cases discussed in WS. Plus would that help explain hits on the lake? If the scent (or perhaps some small samples of remains) were brought down from higher upstream?

This is another area that I hope was discussed with the friends, especially T - are there any areas upcreek that Dylan would have gone fishing? or was that only at the lake?

Oh and the mines too - maybe there's one or two well-known locations that should be, and could easily be, checked?

BBM And less well-known ones too. For instance I just googled "Mining deeds la plata county CO" and this was the first hit: http://swcenter.fortlewis.edu/finding_aids/mining_records.shtml. Doesn't look like the actual records are available to view online, but I imagine there are other records available as well. Gold and coal mining seem to be the main types of mining that occurred in La Plata County. There could be a number of old mine shafts in the area that someone could somehow find themselves at the bottom of

ETA this link looks promising as it maps the mine locations: http://colorado.hometownlocator.com/features/cultural,class,mine,scfips,08067.cfm. 207 records found.

Silver Reef Group Mine, looks to be less than 20 miles south of the south end of the Vallecito Reservoir. http://colorado.hometownlocator.com/maps/feature-map,ftc,2,fid,1734996,n,silver reef group mine.cfm

 

[ColdHands]

I'm bringing this over from the radio thread because I'm thoroughly confused by having two threads open, and this feels more "general." I'm probably wrong though.

If we were to branch out where would we go next? The RSO's? The inner circle? Close friends and family? I think about this. IF MR knows he didn't do it, what person should he suspect? People think that in his past interviews he was crazy for suspecting ER or saying anything about ER having any involvement, but, I ask this: Where would your mind go, if you were being accused, but you know you didn't do it? Would it be to someone who is open and loudly pointing their finger at you? I am really trying to understand his mindset.

When I think of this as a series of concentric circles, this is what I see. Which is interesting, because I didn't see it like this when I was looking at it more linearly.

1) MR at the center
2) Next ring out - People who knew Dylan was going to be there
3) Next ring out from there - People that Dylan may have met up with while there

Each of those rings can be divided into subsets, which eliminates some people and includes others and of course most of the possibilities are unknown entities. Interesting picture.

Thinking in terms of rings, could you have two based on what could have happened. Like, premeditation then a non premeditation type conclusion. Just thinking of your second ring out. Like his friends knew he was coming too. A bad accident could have occurred or (Lord Forbid) a jealous or angered friend planned something like the Skylar Neece case? It would be so much easier if I could draw a flow chart to show what I am saying.

I walk around with a flow chart for this in my head already. Branching possibilities, only a few of which I've been able to cross off. That's why I thought it was so interesting when I looked at it as circles. There are probably other ways to view the story as well, that I am not aware of.

That's why I'm glad that everyone doesn't always agree with everything I say - challenges me to think harder, ask different questions. (I don't know that I ask better questions, but different ones)

For instance, I've worked through this two different ways: 1) I believe everything MR says, without question. Just accept it and go. That takes me to some interesting possibilities. 2) Question everything MR says, that also takes me, surprisingly, to more than one possibility also.

 

[Emma Ems]

I'm bringing this over from the radio thread because I'm thoroughly confused by having two threads open, and this feels more "general." I'm probably wrong though.







I walk around with a flow chart for this in my head already. Branching possibilities, only a few of which I've been able to cross off. That's why I thought it was so interesting when I looked at it as circles. There are probably other ways to view the story as well, that I am not aware of.

That's why I'm glad that everyone doesn't always agree with everything I say - challenges me to think harder, ask different questions. (I don't know that I ask better questions, but different ones)

For instance, I've worked through this two different ways: 1) I believe everything MR says, without question. Just accept it and go. That takes me to some interesting possibilities. 2) Question everything MR says, that also takes me, surprisingly, to more than one possibility also.

I don't believe everything he says, nor do I believe everything ER says. It's hard for me to explain my process but I take them in, but I weigh them with their actions, and other words. Like how I explained the earlier statement. Or like I mentioned too, independent verification, from someone outside the familial circle. Like when MR said in that MB interview Dylan never met a stranger, and MB saying, "That's funny because R said the same thing." I would like to hear how Dylan's friends would describe Dylan's relationship with each parent.