Identified! CO - Gunnison Nat’l Forest, 3 Decomposed Bodies, long term camping near Gold Creek Campground, July 2023 - Rebecca & Christine Vance & Boy, 14

[RedHaus]

Colorado Springs-based campers found dead in Gunnison County were trying to live 'off the grid'

The three former Colorado Springs residents found dead at a Gunnison County campsite were attempting to live “off the grid” — namely, to get as far from civilization as possible,

gazette.com

"Jara was concerned that her sisters and nephew were courting danger, particularly because they had no outdoor survival experience."

What a very sad story with a tragic ending. My thoughts are with the friends and family of these three people, especially the Jaras who did all they could to dissuade Rebecca and Christine.

 

[iamnotagolem]

So they left early August 2022, did they take any food with them? If they died of starvation based on the pics, I’d assume the child died first? After watching Alone, I’m assuming the larger women could have survived a few months with no food. Why not go for help when the kiddo started failing?

We’re there some mental health issues at play? It seemed one sister was in charge and declined the use of the stepsisters property & camper despite the other deceased sister wanting to utilize it. What was she trying to save her son from?

What a sad, tragic story with so much suffering for the poor kiddo that had no say in the matter.

 

[branmuffin]

I think LE knew the identities of the deceased very early on. Even living off-grid you don't throw away your identification so LE not only needed to inform next of kin, but sought a reason why they were in such a remote location.

Based on the interview with the relatives LE were trying to discover whether they weren't trying to escape a dangerous home life or family situation since charges could be brought if that was at play. It's very sad that someone's mental health can be so damaged by circumstances outside of their control they can influence others to join them.

Could the sisters be twins; they look very much alike. Although, I've known sisters who were close in age to have the kind of relationship that twins have. One can be the dominant personality. It's unfortunate the son was caught up in the tragedy. I wonder if it it was his body they found outside of the campground trying to find help. Many times when people become stranded for whatever reason: a stalled vehicle, wrong directions, caught in major storm, etc., one sets out to seek help and perishes.

Surely when you go off grid, you still maintain contact with others, especially if a minor is involved. You still need to get supplies even if it's at a bare-bones supply depot. The four basic requirements for living off-grid are shelter, power, water and food. It doesn't sound like they had even that. If they died of malnutrition then that suggests they had meagre supplies or had no experience in tapping the resources in the general area, eg, trapping, snaring, hunting, knowing edible plants, etc.

Very sad outcome indeed. It reminds me of the Kim family who became lost in the Oregon woods and the father perished seeking help. MOO, IMO

 

[RedHaus]

So they left early August 2022, did they take any food with them? If they died of starvation based on the pics, I’d assume the child died first? After watching Alone, I’m assuming the larger women could have survived a few months with no food. Why not go for help when the kiddo started failing?

RS&BBM

Surely when you go off grid, you still maintain contact with others, especially if a minor is involved. You still need to get supplies even if it's at a bare-bones supply depot. The four basic requirements for living off-grid are shelter, power, water and food. It doesn't sound like they had even that. If they died of malnutrition then that suggests they had meagre supplies or had no experience in tapping the resources in the general area, eg, trapping, snaring, hunting, knowing edible plants, etc.

RS&BBM

Indeed, those are the questions / observations that trouble me the most with this case. Why didn't they go for help at the first signs of trouble?. Surely they would have known far in advance of food depletion that they didn't have enough left to survive. And it sounds like from what little we know these weren't experienced hunter and gatherers.

As I pointed out ^^^ there are two towns with some emergency resources just 2-4 hours downhill walking distance from Gold Creek Campground. Surely that could have been an option before snow pack sealed them in. That just troubles me so.

And how did this small family unit get to where they were in the first place? IIRC, LE has not yet confirmed whether or not a vehicle was found in the area, or back in Ohio City or Pitkin (the two nearest towns). But it is hard for me to imagine the three of them hiked with their supplies (all up hill, I believe) from either of the two towns. Did someone drop them at the campground?

I am not sure we'll hear much more from LE, but it would be helpful for the public's edification at the least, for a full report on how and why this tragedy unfolded. Like you suggested, @iamnotagolem, mental health issues may have been at play. As I am no expert in these matters, I wonder if a legal or enforcement intervention was an option here?

All IMO.

ETA to add a bit of clarity

 

[Cedars]

Surely they would have known far in advance of food depletion that they didn't have enough left to survive. And it sounds like from what little we know these weren't experienced hunter and gatherers.

RSBM

The step sister mentioned YT: I suppose it's possible very inexperienced people might be convinced by some (false and misleading) videos that they could survive in the wilderness? And when they utterly failed, potentially a dominant person would be too proud/paranoid to go back and admit failure?

I've seen a few cases recently of two or more people dying together because of apparently paranoid delusions, perhaps worsened by Covid isolation.

IMO, no one can survive in the wilderness by staying in one place and hunting and gathering. The experts in this, the indigeneous groups, were nomadic. They, or some of them, would walk long distances througout the year, going to specific places at specific times in order to harvest something. They knew how to preserve food for the winter , and moved warmer valleys for the cold months.

I am no longer amazed by how some people in our modern world have no concept of the realities our ancestors faced daily.

JMO

 

[RedHaus]

I am no longer amazed by how some people in our modern world have no concept of the realities our ancestors faced daily.

RSBM
Well stated. Completely agree.

So why did the sister(s) pick this location at 10K altitude, an forgiving environment near tree line (11.5K) in Colorado? They had previously lived in Colorado Springs at 6K. The altitude shift, 6K to 10K, alone, would have taken a toll on them for some time unless they had recently lived or spent a lot of time at higher altitudes.

Further, they likely didn't hike from Colorado Springs to Gold Creek Campground, 170 miles. So they would have driven or gotten / hitched a ride, IMO. If they had access to such transportation, then why not seek a place to live off the grid that is far more temperate and hospitable in AZ, NM or TX? Unless, they were seeking cool temps last July, not considering winter.

And you're right, to live off the grid in the Rocky Mountains, realistically, should only be a summer month endeavor. With a second camping location in an appropriate climate for fall, winter and spring. If that was their initial plan, something backfired or impeded their ability to shift locations in the fall. IMO.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I didn’t think we would have to wait long for an ID, and we didn’t. No mystery as to why they didn’t go down to civilization and get food: they were paranoid and wanted to avoid civilization.
I am not without sympathy, I also think the world is spinning out of control. But it’s best to make sure you have adequate provisions and equipment before bugging out.

Mental illness is a terrible thing. This case is heartbreaking, because friends tried to talk them out of it without success, and one victim was 14.

 

[Susikatze]

RSBM

The step sister mentioned YT: I suppose it's possible very inexperienced people might be convinced by some (false and misleading) videos that they could survive in the wilderness? And when they utterly failed, potentially a dominant person would be too proud/paranoid to go back and admit failure?

I've seen a few cases recently of two or more people dying together because of apparently paranoid delusions, perhaps worsened by Covid isolation.

IMO, no one can survive in the wilderness by staying in one place and hunting and gathering. The experts in this, the indigeneous groups, were nomadic. They, or some of them, would walk long distances througout the year, going to specific places at specific times in order to harvest something. They knew how to preserve food for the winter , and moved warmer valleys for the cold months.

I am no longer amazed by how some people in our modern world have no concept of the realities our ancestors faced daily.

JMO

The two sisters appear if they could indeed have some Native ancestry. But not sure, there is not much information. And even if they indeed were Native, it does not mean they know survival off grid - most nowadays are detached from tradition.

 

[vls12345]

They ventured into the Rockies in Colorado to live off the grid. It ended badly

The remains of the family members were found after a hiker discovered a remote campsite in the area of Gold Creek Campground.

www.latimes.com

Evidence suggested the family was trying to live off the grid and likely died because of malnutrition or exposure to the elements, said Michael Barnes, the Gunnison County coroner. The autopsy reports are not yet complete, and Barnes said the office is waiting on a toxicology report. He added that carbon monoxide poisoning was also a concern because evidence suggested the family tried to stay warm by burning materials, including vegetation in soup cans, inside their tent.

and

According to Barnes, the family settled about 9,500 feet in elevation in the national forest, an hour outside of Gunnison, a town in western Colorado. Empty cans and refuse suggested the family had been there for an extended time, Barnes said. But they appeared to struggle to survive against the snow and bitter cold, which he said crept up quickly and lasted through spring.

Near the campsite authorities found a “lean-to” — a type of crude shelter — made with logs held together by some cordage, a sign that the group was probably trying to find refuge from the weather. There were empty soup cans and other garbage found around the site, including signs the family built fires to stay warm in the tent.

The area where the family would go to the bathroom was just a few feet away from the tent, which Barnes said also indicated the family likely struggled with the winter conditions. “They didn’t want to venture far to use the restroom.”

 

[LadyL]

well
I'm pretty angry at the adults here
that the 14 year-old boy died from starvation is unconscionable
his mother and his aunt had a responsibility to ensure that didn't happen

 

[Susikatze]

well
I'm pretty angry at the adults here
that the 14 year-old boy died from starvation is unconscionable
his mother and his aunt had a responsibility to ensure that didn't happen

I agree. But it is not clear yet whether they starved to death. Why would they all starve to death in a tent? Even if the adults were adamant at not getting food from the closest village, i doubt they would all starve to death the same time. Once the first person dies, i dont think the other two would just lie down beside him/her and wait until they eventually starve to death as well.
LE suspects carbonmonoxide poisoning or some ingestion of toxic plants. The carbonmonoxide poisoning would make the most sense since they burnt things in their tent and carbonmonoxide is impossible to smell and incapacitates you quicky.

 

[LadyL]

I agree. But it is not clear yet whether they starved to death. Why would they all starve to death in a tent? Even if the adults were adamant at not getting food from the closest village, i doubt they would all starve to death the same time. Once the first person dies, i dont think the other two would just lie down beside him/her and wait until they eventually starve to death as well.
LE suspects carbonmonoxide poisoning or some ingestion of toxic plants. The carbonmonoxide poisoning would make the most sense since they burnt things in their tent and carbonmonoxide is impossible to smell and incapacitates you quicky.

I was relying on the sister having accurate info when she said they died of starvation. But you have a good point about the others not going for help. I assumed they died when the weather made it impossible to travel to the nearest town, especially if they didn't have proper clothing and gear. They said one of the bodies was outside the tent too I think, which is strange. But regardless of why they died, the 14 year-old was failed by the two adults he should've been able to rely on. Very sad.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm glad they were identified, but what a horrible, needless tragedy.

 

[vls12345]

I wondered if by the time one died (of starvation) the others may have been pretty weak at that point too. I would assume your thinking processes are probably altered too (because your brain has also been starved). Maybe the one found outside the tent was trapped, either by weather or the lack of knowledge of which way to go for help?

It's heartbreaking. And I am also angry on behalf of the 14 year old.

Imo.

 

[Cedars]

I wondered if by the time one died (of starvation) the others may have been pretty weak at that point too. I would assume your thinking processes are probably altered too (because your brain has also been starved). Maybe the one found outside the tent was trapped, either by weather or the lack of knowledge of which way to go for help?

It's heartbreaking. And I am also angry on behalf of the 14 year old.

Imo.

I was thinking that too. Too weak, plus too cold and snowy to want to try to make the trip unequipped and alone.

Also, did LE find cash?

It is tragic to be born to an unfit mother. I know family loyalty runs deep, but a quiet call to police to come remove the boy before they left would actually have been in order. But, again, family don't do that to each other, and a mother is considered to be the owner of her child, who else would take care of him?

In most of the world, people live in extended families, not all these isolated individuals quietly going insane.

JMO

 

[Dhighsmith]

well
I'm pretty angry at the adults here
that the 14 year-old boy died from starvation is unconscionable
his mother and his aunt had a responsibility to ensure that didn't happen

From comments by stepsister there seems to have been mental health issues. Issues further complicated by Covid pandemic and lockdown, suspect probably deteriorated even more by off grid living conditions. <modsnip - diagnosing> Another factor as pointed out was appearance of limited provisions, description of empty canned food containers raising suspicion for lack of proper diet and absence of adequate nutrients required to support a healthy physical body but even more so key factors to maintain balance in mental health as we as being critical in cognitive skills and neurological function- conditions plagued by inability to recognize failure of/lack of effective decision making process.

 

[RedHaus]

LE suspects carbonmonoxide poisoning or some ingestion of toxic plants. The carbonmonoxide poisoning would make the most sense since they burnt things in their tent and carbonmonoxide is impossible to smell and incapacitates you quicky.

RSBM

I am considering CO poisoning again since a high level of CO is a silent, quick and indiscriminate killer. Meaning, all three could have succumbed at around the same time and without warning.

The fact they had fires inside the tent, per LE, is very telling to me. If this occurred, perhaps the person who died outside the tent crawled out just before he/she died. LE has reported that person was in front of the tent opening. Perhaps he/she crawled out, lost consciousness, and died from hypothermia. The same could have happened to the two inside the tent if the only source of warmth went out because they had fallen into unconsciousness. They would likely then die from hypothermia.

The thing that bothers me about starvation alone, is, in theory, it would have been a preventable death long before weakness presented and cognitive skills waned. Unless they were trapped by early snowpack before they realized their food supplies were not adequate. Or..., as others have opined, the mental illness that likely got them up that mountain, could have prevented them from seeking help before their lives were at risk.

Lastly, I am still VERY curious how they got up there with supplies? And how did all the tin cans of food get there? Had they been making regular trips to Ohio City or Pitkin? Or.... had someone been delivering supplies to them? I sure hope LE is solving those questions. Depending on the answers, a 4th person may have been aware of their location and situation. Unlikely but possible.

All IMHO.

ET clarify 2nd para.

 

[Betty P]

I'm shocked that they would try to camp for the entire winter at 9,500 ft in that part of the Rockies. Those would be brutal conditions with cold, snowy weather beginning very early in fall and lasting until summer. Lots of wind, too. I don't think anyone does that, not even the experts.

 

[Dhighsmith]

The stepsister mentioned in interview of valuable lessons for those considering to live off the grid but I think also reminder of the need to plan and follow up on family and friends in high risk situations. The sisters refused to share exact location of destination for living off the grid but agreed to send post card upon arrival, which didn’t happen. So, in situations as this maybe research and invest in hidden device for tracking their location, allowing for at least possibility of a welfare check when as was the case here they fail to contact family. No word for a year, no doubt family was worried but no means to locate.

 

[RedHaus]

A few more shocking details per 7/28/2023 DM:

"...At the campsite alongside the bodies were empty food cans, books and a restroom area, [Gunnison Co Coroner] Barnes said. The only food found at their shelter was a single package of ramen.

It appeared they had begun to build a 'lean-to' type shelter but not finished by the time last year's harsh winter began, he added.

'I wonder if winter came on quickly and suddenly they were just in survival mode in the tent,' Barnes said. 'They had a lot of literature with them about outdoor survival and foraging and stuff like that.

But it looked like they supplied at a grocery store.'"

ETA: The last bit is not surprising, but it is shocking, IMO, as it meant they likely went back and forth to Pitkin and/or Ohio City. But they stopped getting provisions at some point; likely they got trapped by heavy snow pack and had not anticipated that obvious risk to their lives at 9.5K-10K feet elevation in CO in late fall / early winter.

Off-the-grid family found dead on mountain used YOUTUBE to prepare

A family who died while trying to live 'off grid' used YouTube to prepare for their new life 'away from everything' - even as their family begged them to reconsider.

www.dailymail.co.uk