CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 4

[cujenn81]

Q: Did you ever try to engage in conversation with him?
A: I remember at least once making a comment about doing bad on a pop quiz and he would just respond that he did okay and then stop the conversation.
Q: What made you think he wasn't interested in having conversation with you?
A: She said he appeared to leave class early to avoid talking to her or would rush to get on the elevator if she was headed that way to avoid conversation. (It was a small lab - only a four or five people in it)
Q: Would you see him on a daily basis?
A: Yes
Q: Any concerns about his attendance or being on time, etc?
A: He always left early and didn't seem engaged in lab.
Q: What's benchwork?
A: You're literally at a bench doing lab experiments.
Q: What would you see JH doing at his desk?
A: He'd lean back, always had headphones on, and didn't seem to be doing too much scientific research.

 

[corundogs]

WOAH! Jessica just mentioned his "pupils being blown out". I was reading something else, so wasn't fully paying attention - but that jumped out at me!

This witness is doing a really good job portraying him. Better than his professors, who had limited interactions with him.

 

[bexlex]

Labs are probably really tedious.....like trying to make a perfect soufflé over the course of several weeks....one little mistake and you've lost weeks work and have to start over..too much like hard work for him

 

[cujenn81]

Q: What other observations did you notice?
A: On more than one occasion, and he never made eye contact with me, but sometimes I would notice on multiple occasions where his pupils were blown out.
Q: Did you see his final presentation?
A: He again looked awkward and almost annoyed giving the presentation. The content was good but he didn't have much data to present because he didn't do much lab work.
Q: If you had to describe his motivation?
A: Unmotivated.
Q: How would you describe his initiative?
A: Lacking.
Q: Was he able to do what was asked of him by Dr. Freed?
A: Yes
Q: Did he ever seem detached from reality?
A: No

Defense will cross-examine

 

[Hatfield]

Asked about the defendant's presentation in class.
A: He looked incredibly nervous and awkward giving presentation.
Took a neurobiology class with JH - started around Christmas & ended mid-March.
He joined the lab rotation with her at the end of January.
Q: How did he present in class?
A: He didn't seem engaged and didn't seem to pay attention in class. It was a discussion based class and he never volunteered anything. But he always answered questions correctly. Doesn't remember JH ever taking notes or even opening a book.

He sounds like he is one of the rare ones that has a photographic memory of everything he reads. I've never known anyone personally like that but have heard of people that could read a book once and not have to study anymore. They basically could recall it from memory after reading it just once.

Wondering if he was like that. He sure didnt seem to need to participate much to do well.

 

[corundogs]

He sounds like he is one of the rare ones that has a photographic memory of everything he reads. I've never known anyone personally like that but have heard of people that could read a book once and not have to study anymore. They basically could recall it from memory after reading it just once.

Wondering if he was like that. He sure didnt seem to need to participate much to do well.

I used to have that. As I have gotten older, it has waned some. Friends got mad at me that I would just sit in class, never do homework or study, and get better grades on tests than them. Of course, since homework is part of your grade, my grades weren't great. I heard every single year - and it infuriated my parents - "corundogs doesn't apply herself". LOL!!

 

[cujenn81]

Shown an exhibit and confirmed what their lab looked like.

Q: Some things you noticed was that he appeared to be quiet?
A: Yes.
Q: Socially awkward?
A: Yes.
Q: What was the impression you got about his ability to socialize with other people?
A: He certainly didn't socialize with other people but I just assumed he didn't want to because he never made eye contact?
Q: Were you trying to engage him?
A: At first, yes, I'd make small chat waiting for class but then I just kind of stopped.
Q: It was your impression that he could not make small talk with you?
A: Or didn't want to.
Q: When you watched him do first lab rotation presentation what made it so awkward?
A: He kind of changed his voice during presentation that came off sarcastic and would look at presentation the whole time and not the audience. He seemed to want to get thru it as quickly as possible. If people asked questions, he'd say he didn't know or give quick answers.
Q: You said he was completely silent unless spoken to, correct?
A: Yes
Q: You described that he would stare thru the desk. Can you describe what you mean by that?
A: He always had his eyebrows raised and seemed dazed out with big eyes.
Q: When called upon, he would snap out of it?
A: Yes, he'd answer the question and then go back into the same kind of dazed mode.
Q: Did you ever see him make strange facial expressions?
A: No, just the raised eyebrows.
Q: Any awkward mannerisms?
A: Not really, no.
Q: Did he ever include awkward jokes that made things uncomfortable.
A: In the first one, there was a silly joke that nobody thought was funny but I can't remember any in the 3rd presentation.
Q: Did he ever dress strangely or have his hair colored anything but brown?
A: No.
Q: Did he ever get a reputation with other students about his lab presentations?
A: Don't remember ever talking to other students about him.

 

[LyndyLoo]

He sounds like he is one of the rare ones that has a photographic memory of everything he reads. I've never known anyone personally like that but have heard of people that could read a book once and not have to study anymore. They basically could recall it from memory after reading it just once.

Wondering if he was like that. He sure didnt seem to need to participate much to do well.

Yeah..Kind of like Spencer, from "Criminal Minds" who could also read a book cover to cover in minutes...LOL

JH also seemed to be able to just listen/hear ( block out extraneous noise) file it inside some cabinet in his brain & had total recall as well...Now that would be a coveted talent I'm sure!!!!

 

[corundogs]

Ms. Brady just is so ineffective! I don't get it...I really wish she could say "OK, here is my point of all of this..."

 

[Hatfield]

I used to have that. As I have gotten older, it has waned some. Friends got mad at me that I would just sit in class, never do homework or study, and get better grades on tests than them. Of course, since homework is part of your grade, my grades weren't great. I heard every single year - and it infuriated my parents - "corundogs doesn't apply herself". LOL!!

Thats a nice "gift" to have.

JH seems like he must have had a similar gift because all his teachers and fellow students keep saying the same thing about him that they did not see him put much effort and yet he did great on tests and answering questions.

 

[corundogs]

Shown an exhibit and confirmed what their lab looked like.

Q: Some things you noticed was that he appeared to be quiet?
A: Yes.
Q: Socially awkward?
A: Yes.
Q: What was the impression you got about his ability to socialize with other people?
A: He certainly didn't socialize with other people but I just assumed he didn't want to because he never made eye contact?
Q: Were you trying to engage him?
A: At first, yes, I'd make small chat waiting for class but then I just kind of stopped.
Q: It was your impression that he could not make small talk with you?
A: Or didn't want to.
Q: When you watched him do first lab rotation presentation what made it so awkward?
A: He kind of changed his voice during presentation that came off sarcastic and would look at presentation the whole time and not the audience. He seemed to want to get thru it as quickly as possible. If people asked questions, he'd say he didn't know or give quick answers.
Q: You said he was completely silent unless spoken to, correct?
A: Yes
Q: You described that he would stare thru the desk. Can you describe what you mean by that?
A: He always had his eyebrows raised and seemed dazed out with big eyes.
Q: When called upon, he would snap out of it?
A: Yes, he'd answer the question and then go back into the same kind of dazed mode.
Q: Did you ever see him make strange facial expressions?
A: No, just the raised eyebrows.
Q: Any awkward mannerisms?
A: Not really, no.
Q: Did he ever include awkward jokes that made things uncomfortable.
A: In the first one, there was a silly joke that nobody thought was funny but I can't remember any in the 3rd presentation.
Q: Did he ever dress strangely or have his hair colored anything but brown?
A: No.
Q: Did he ever get a reputation with other students about his lab presentations?
A: Don't remember ever talking to other students about him.

Your second job must be a transcriber, right?

 

[cujenn81]

Q: Did you ever see the zoned out look he had in class during lab too?
A: Yes.

Re-direct by Pros.
Confirmed that the awkwardness he presented in class is often seen in other first year students.
No jury questions.
Witness released from subpoena.

 

[corundogs]

Love this court! Nope, we aren't cutting short - we are going long!

 

[corundogs]

Don't know why but it makes me chuckle every time someone mentions going to the concessions.

Nope! They did NOT sneak in their own food! LOL!!

 

[cujenn81]

Next witness - asked jury to stay 10 mins after.

Carey Ian Rottman - was at theater night of shooting

Q: What do you remember about the day prior?
A: Typical day, friend Pierce and I planned to go to movie together. Met Pierce thru a co-worker and eventually married he and his wife.
Q: When did you buy tickets?
A: That day, early evening on Fandango.
Got to theater 11:45-11:50ish range.
Q: How did you choose your seats?
A: Let Pierce lead the way and just chose 2 seats together. We sat towards back of theater about half way up in the first two seats with me closest to the aisle.

Entered exhibit with his drawing of their seats in theater.

 

[corundogs]

Carey Rottman - survivor

GSW to upper leg, at theater with friend Pierce O’Farrill, was 27 yrs old at time of shooting.
Count 57: Attempted Murder in the 1st degree after deliberation
Count 115: Attempted Murder in the 1st degree extreme indifference

 

[Hatfield]

Yeah..Kind of like Spencer, from "Criminal Minds" who could also read a book cover to cover in minutes...LOL

JH also seemed to be able to just listen/hear ( block out extraneous noise) file it inside some cabinet in his brain & had total recall as well...Now that would be a coveted talent I'm sure!!!!

Agree. I bet that contributed to his lackluster and out of touch with other people.

If things came super easy for him and not for others, then that alone always put him in a "special group of 1". I could see where over years and years through all his schooling that he would begin to get sick of it and end up with the personality that he had.

Since he knew inside he was "special", it was much easier for him to just keep quiet about it and not share with others about his gift of being somewhat of a prodigy.

I would love to interview his grade school classmates to see if he ever tried to open up with others about it and maybe had a tough time with other kids making fun of him being so smart or something like that.

I bet over time his weird personality was his way of coping with his gift of being able to recall everything he heard and read.

It sure would explain a lot of what we see now as is personality.

 

[cujenn81]

Q: What did you do while waiting for movie to begin?
A: Typical stuff. Small talk. My brother was at movie in Chicago and were texting.
Q: Did something happen during movie?
A: Yeah, started typical. About 5-10 mins in after previews saw something launched in our direction in our vicinity.
Q: Did you see mid-air?
A: Yeah... I saw a big object kind of float in front of the screen. It came from front right to the middle of the stadium seating.
Q: What happened after that?
A: Heard some hissing. Very close after that there was fire open.
Q: What do you mean?
A: Gun shots started firing from front right of theater. Pierce got down right away. I've never been around guns so I was like what guy is lighting off firecrackers. I could see flashes of gunfire and silhouette behind a gun.
Q: What area did you see the silhouette?
A: Front right towards the exit.
Q: What did you do next?
A: When Pierce got down it registered for me to get down. From there, we ducked for cover. I could hear a very very consistent rapid gunfire at the time. I had lower half of my legs in the aisle. Shortly after, crying and a very frantic, chaotic scene at that point. I could hear Pierce praying. He was hanging on to my legs and I was hanging on to his legs. The consistency of gunfire slowed down for a second and at that point I was pushing Pierce and whoever was next to him in so I could cover my legs. Then you could slower rapid gunfire again. While trying to get cover, I got shot in my leg.

 

[corundogs]

Agree. I bet that contributed to his lackluster and out of touch with other people.

If things came super easy for him and not for others, then that alone always put him in a "special group of 1". I could see where over years and years through all his schooling that he would begin to get sick of it and end up with the personality that he had.

Since he knew inside he was "special", it was much easier for him to just keep quiet about it and not share with others about his gift of being somewhat of a prodigy.

I would love to interview his grade school classmates to see if he ever tried to open up with others about it and maybe had a tough time with other kids making fun of him being so smart or something like that.

I bet over time his weird personality was his way of coping with his gift of being able to recall everything he heard and read.

It sure would explain a lot of what we see now as is personality.

I read a report just today about one. Now this is not really an indication of much...

But it said he was always picked first to be on a team because he ran fast.

Now most kids who are thought of as weird - fast runner or not - are not first picks for anything! So I would say he wasn't necessarily the "weird one" in his early years. If that makes sense. I can try to find that article if you want.

 

[cujenn81]

Q: What happened next?
A: I told Pierce I had been hit and he said he had too. Instinctively, I got up and took a couple grabs at Pierce's shirt but he wasn't responding to me and wasn't able to leave with me.
Q: What did you think had happened to him?
A: I thought he had passed at that point because he didn't respond.
Q: What did you do after he didn't respond?
A: I just turned around, with my hand over the wound, limped down and out of theater.

Showing jury where they were seated on theater model and where he first saw gunfire.