CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 8

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  • #221
Question regarding the sanity defense: If the gunman knows it is legally wrong but truly believes it to be right for themselves in this instance, are they considered sane or insane?


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I don't think it's going to absolve him legally as to being guilty of mass murder....However, it may lead a juror or two to NOT apply death penalty..as it is obvious..he isn't safe to live in the world ever again..Far to dangerous and quite capable of a repeat crime due to his inability to conform to society rules and has absolutely no understanding nor capability of self controls. He says he wanted to be stopped..but next he says...could avoid certain things to avoid being stopped...Incongruent reasoning IMO :thinking:
 
  • #222
I don't think it's going to absolve him legally as to being guilty of mass murder....However, it may lead a juror or two to NOT apply death penalty..as it is obvious..he isn't safe to live in the world ever again..Far to dangerous and quite capable of a repeat crime due to his inability to conform to society rules and has absolutely no understanding nor capability of self controls. He says he wanted to be stopped..but next he says...could avoid certain things to avoid being stopped...Incongruent reasoning IMO :thinking:

And he has spent his whole life hiding his true feelings....how can anyone "treat" him and then say he is improved or cured. This seems like something for which there is no medicine
 
  • #223
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  • #225
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Juror 901 came in. Says someone brought up about being from Florida on the right side of court room

-Marshall Zelinger ‏@7Marshall · 48s48 seconds ago
#TheaterShooting issue: Juror tells judge someone who was sitting on the side the media sits on spoke to her during lunch (1/2)

-The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

The person spoke to her during lunch

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Cathy ‏@courtchatter · 1m1 minute ago
Juror #901 was outside at lunch , she was fanning herself and member of gallery was out there and spoke to her. #theatershooting
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Cathy ‏@courtchatter · 1m1 minute ago
Juror doesn't believe that person in gallery knew she was a juror. (they are supposed to have badges on at all times) #theatershooting
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Marshall Zelinger ‏@7Marshall · 1m1 minute ago
#TheaterShooting issue: Juror was fanning herself b/c she was hot. Person in gallery said something abt being from Florida. That's it. (2/2
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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Juror says the person who spoke to her isn’t in court room at the moment

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 51s52 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Juror was fanning herself during lunch. Someone mentioned about being from Florida
 
  • #226
what was the deal? some one asked if she was from Florida?
 
  • #227
At the end of the last thread someone asked why I didn't believe JH showed symptoms of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

I immediately ruled out bipolar because my mother suffers from of it & I've seen more manic episodes that led to psychosis than I care to remember. In addition, because I want to know as much about the disorder as possible so I know what signs to look for that might indicate she's not taking her medication or her meds need adjusting, I've read a ton of books and memoirs on the subject.

When most people with bipolar disorder experience mania, their thoughts are flying through their brain at a rate so fast that they don't have the capacity to latch onto one specific thing. I realize that the disorder manifests itself in different ways for every patient but many bipolar patients have some type of grandiose delusion--not like JH displaying a grandiose personality--but actually believe they ARE a spiritual being like God or world leader. Or they believe they've been chosen to do something of great importance by one. (For example, my mom once came into my room in the middle of the night and turned my TV on and switched to a channel with static. She told me that God was about to send her a message thru the TV and it was her sole duty to share it with the rest of the world.) I haven't heard anything about JH having actual delusions or hallucinations either... which is pretty much a requirement for a schizophrenia diagnosis. He's held false beliefs but those aren't the same as delusions.

Also, many bipolar and schizophrenic patients exhibit very unorganized thought patterns... they'll use made up words, create loose associations like "that clock looks like it has a headache" etc. Another example: when my mom worked on arts and crafts while she was in the hospital, she wrote all the letters upside down. She tried to write the words down the same way she did in the hospital after she was back to her normal self & she couldn't do it. The brain just goes haywire with these illnesses and I haven't seen any evidence that JH's brain was processing thoughts that way.

ETA: I also wanted to mention that the paranoid thoughts characteristic of schizophrenia tend to be very specific in nature ("That man is going to kill me with a machete!") and JH uses really vague examples when talking about being paranoid. If he truly suffered from schizophrenia, instead of saying "I thought people were always talking about me or wanted to harm me", he might say something like... "I thought my classmates were plotting to kidnap me and send me to Mars on the Destroyer".
IMO

I think it is true that the disorder manifests itself in many different ways. Those with bipolar disorder do not necessarily present with psychotic symptoms like some do. I am familiar with a lot of the delusions, ideas of reference, echolalia, pressured speech, and paranoia that often go on with mania and schizophrenia. I don't think that you have to actually believe you are a higher being to have the disorders, especially schizophrenia. It is just one of the criteria listed. Although it is definitely something I have witnessed myself interviewing schizophrenic/bipolar patients in a mental health institute. They did say that he experienced ideas of reference, however, in thinking President Obama was communicating to him through nods and winks on tv while he was in prison. They also said that he told guards he did not know whether or not they were real. This was supposedly before he was placed on antipsychotics. Some will suggest malingering for that, but I haven't seen or read about any doctor's interpretations that that is what they thought was going on.

I believe he knew right from wrong, but I believe he was definitely experiencing psychotic symptoms before the shootings. I have never really suspected bipolar disorder for him, but schizoaffective disorder does seem like a possibility with mood disorders he experienced tied into it. To me, the symbols he drew in his notebook and nonsensical equations are very synonymous of drawings I have seen done by patients with schizophrenia.
 
  • #228
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 2m2 minutes ago
#theatershooting

Judge will ask juror to ID person if she sees them

--]
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 2m2 minutes ago
#theatershooting

Pros. says next segment is 2:38 - only will see video until 7EST bbm
 
  • #229
Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
We are back with more video of Dr Reid and JH #theatershooting #theatertrial

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  • #230
And....video isn't working....
 
  • #231
Cathy ‏@courtchatter · 1m1 minute ago
Next video segment is over 2 1/2 hours. Judge will stop court at 5pm MDT & finish tomorrow. #theatershooting
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 43s44 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Video - August 1, 2014 9:18 AM
 
  • #232
<modsnip>

He's getting under my skin too. Although we are getting to the really interesting part right now....so I can't seem to walk away! I want to know what it would take to get him "angry" He seems to be able to suppress any need to yell or scream .....

ETA: "Nope" and "Yup" are making me want to punch him
 
  • #233
  • #234
He's getting under my skin too. Although we are getting to the really interesting part right now....so I can't seem to walk away! I want to know what it would take to get him "angry" He seems to be able to suppress any need to yell or scream .....

I'm the same way--problem is I have a very upset Bunny over my neighbors roofing and I get her....and Dandy bites....yikes
 
  • #235
He's getting under my skin too. Although we are getting to the really interesting part right now....so I can't seem to walk away! I want to know what it would take to get him "angry" He seems to be able to suppress any need to yell or scream .....

I know right! Wish the doc would ask him about a time he was really angry.


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  • #236
Hate the way he says "Nope"
 
  • #237
The Gold Patrol&#8482; &#8207;@thegoldpatrol · 34s34 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Reid: Do you see any difference in the way I am dressed?

JH - Same bowtie/jacket. Cowboy boots yesterday, same pin
 
  • #238
  • #239
yikes..video problems finally fixed!! Will finish by 7 PM EDT...then I assume resume tomorrow!!
 
  • #240
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