CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[katydid23]

With all due respect, don't see that the public supports criminal acts. Some just feel not all criminals need to be shot during a criminal act.

Of course not all criminals need to be shot doing a criminal act. What percentage of ALL criminals do you think are being shot? Is it anywhere close to 'ALL'?

Cops do not shoot someone for doing a criminal act. They shoot them for threatening the safety of others. This teen was not shot for stealing a car. She was shot for reusing to STOP the car is it drove towards an officer, pinned against a fence. Big Difference.

 

[katydid23]

Sometimes a teen with a set of perfectly wonderful parents goes completely off the rails. It's heart wrenching for parents.

That is absolutely true. And it is heart wrenching. But it seems unfair for this mom to blame the cops for failing to control a teen that Mom and Dad could not control either. She had just been released from jail, accused of stealing a car. And so she goes right out, steals another, driving on suspended, joyriding with a group of friends. Her parents couldn't keep her off the streets and under control but they blame the cops when they have to do so.

 

[CoolJ]

That is absolutely true. And it is heart wrenching. But it seems unfair for this mom to blame the cops for failing to control a teen that Mom and Dad could not control either. She had just been released from jail, accused of stealing a car. And so she goes right out, steals another, driving on suspended, joyriding with a group of friends. Her parents couldn't keep her off the streets and under control but they blame the cops when they have to do so.

Have you seen a quote or something that gives you reason to believe she was blaming the cops for anything?

 

[katydid23]

Have you seen a quote or something that gives you reason to believe she was blaming the cops for anything?

I assume she blames them, considering the possible lawsuit she is bringing against them:

In a statement released in English and Spanish, Hernandez's parents said they want the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate her death, and for U.S. Attorney John Walsh in Colorado to oversee the criminal investigation of the officers involved.

The family said it doesn't trust Denver police to conduct a fair and timely investigation, and that the department has a history of exonerating its officers.

The statement came after the parents retained lawyer Qusair Mohamedbhai, who has been involved in a number of other high-profile civil rights cases against Denver police and sheriff's deputies.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-30-16-59-06

 

[Woodland]

Of course not all criminals need to be shot doing a criminal act. What percentage of ALL criminals do you think are being shot? Is it anywhere close to 'ALL'?

Cops do not shoot someone for doing a criminal act. They shoot them for threatening the safety of others. This teen was not shot for stealing a car. She was shot for reusing to STOP the car is it drove towards an officer, pinned against a fence. Big Difference.

The Denver Chief of Police has clarified, they he does not know how the officer was injured. He first said the car drove at the officer then shots were fired, but now he is saying he doesn't know what the sequence of events were.

A teen in the vehicle said the officer was hurt with the car after the shooting, as the car was out of control.

We don't know the sequence of events, yet.

 

[Elley Mae]

The Denver Chief of Police has clarified, they he does not know how the officer was injured. He first said the car drove at the officer then shots were fired, but now he is saying he doesn't know what the sequence of events were.

A teen in the vehicle said the officer was hurt with the car after the shooting, as the car was out of control.

We don't know the sequence of events, yet.

bbm, No we don't but I am putting my money on the cop being in the right.jmo idk

 

[Elley Mae]

Have you seen a quote or something that gives you reason to believe she was blaming the cops for anything?

bbm, This head line is proof for me, I would think with the doj being asked to look into something means you got a problem with what happened, that's pretty much laying blame.

Family of Jessica Hernandez asks DOJ to conduct civil rights investigation into her death

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...uct-civil-rights-investigation-into-her-death

 

[katydid23]

The Denver Chief of Police has clarified, they he does not know how the officer was injured. He first said the car drove at the officer then shots were fired, but now he is saying he doesn't know what the sequence of events were.

A teen in the vehicle said the officer was hurt with the car after the shooting, as the car was out of control.

We don't know the sequence of events, yet.

I don't think it matters whether the shots came before or after the cop was run over. EITHER WAY, the car was headed in the cops direction. JMO:moo:

 

[katydid23]

The Denver Chief of Police has clarified, they he does not know how the officer was injured. He first said the car drove at the officer then shots were fired, but now he is saying he doesn't know what the sequence of events were.

A teen in the vehicle said the officer was hurt with the car after the shooting, as the car was out of control.

We don't know the sequence of events, yet.

BBM

I don't think he has said he does not know how he was injured. They know he was run into by the car. The question is whether the shots came before or after. The whole thing was just split seconds in duration. And I don't think it matters what came first. Because the car had to be headed in the cops direction, to it would never have hit him , even if she was shot first.

 

[al66pine]

With all due respect, don't see that the public supports criminal acts.
Some just feel notall criminals need to be shot during a criminal act.

bbm

^bbm = a point I agree with, and I bet many others here also agree. No 1800s wild west.

Can you or anyone provide evidence (not just anecdotes) supporting implication that LEOs shoot all criminals during their criminal acts?
If so, let's start a thread elsewhere to discuss that. This thread is about this Denver shooting and those involved, the topic for discussion,
not general unsupported hyperboles.
JM2cts.

 

[Yoda]

Curious- If a criminal is fleeing the scene, a stubborn citizen is in the path and does not move, the criminal tries to avoid the citizen, wrecks, becomes incapacitated immediately, but the car is still in motion and strikes the citizen, whose fault is it? Is it the citizen's, because if he moved out of the way the criminal wouldn't have become incapacitated ?

haha what timing al66pine- I just saw your post above mine.

 

[Woodland]

It is clear the officer was struck by the vehicle. How and when is what people want to know.

Both officers fired their weapons according to the Denver Police Chief and he has not changed that statement - we have seen the bullet holes through the drivers side window. If the driver aimed the car at the officer, putting him in front of the car, I would expect to see a bullet hole or two through the windshield.

There will likely only be one version of events that can stand up to scrutiny. Jmo.

 

[katydid23]

It is clear the officer was struck by the vehicle. How and when is what people want to know.

Both officers fired their weapons according to the Denver Police Chief and he has not changed that statement - we have seen the bullet holes through the drivers side window. If the driver aimed the car at the officer, putting him in front of the car, I would expect to see a bullet hole or two through the windshield.

There will likely only be one version of events that can stand up to scrutiny. Jmo.

BBM
Not necessarily. Maybe he did not fire until she was right up on him, and in that case, the bullet could be on the side of the car.

I am not sure what you think happened. Are you thinking the cops just walked up to a car full of kids and shot one girl in the head, for no reason?

 

[CoolJ]

bbm, This head line is proof for me, I would think with the doj being asked to look into something means you got a problem with what happened, that's pretty much laying blame.

Family of Jessica Hernandez asks DOJ to conduct civil rights investigation into her death

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...uct-civil-rights-investigation-into-her-death

I don't see it that way at all. Right now, I see a parent who's child was killed and she wants to know what happened. There is no blame yet. Asking for an investigation isn't the same as blaming. It is about finding the truth. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. If she was asking for charges and for those officers arrested, I would agree with you. There is nothing wrong with what the parents are doing.

 

[al66pine]

Curious- If a criminal is fleeing the scene, a stubborn citizen is in the path and does not move, the criminal tries to avoid the citizen, wrecks, becomes incapacitated immediately, but the car is still in motion and strikes the citizen, whose fault is it? Is it the citizen's, because if he moved out of the way the criminal wouldn't have become incapacitated ?....

sbm bbm

Criminal responsibility and charges? Or civil negligence & tort issues?
AFAICT, hypo^ has no claim of LEO excessive use of force issue like Denver shooting, but we can start a thread on ^hypo elsewhere, if you'd like.

BTW, you posted some great pix, esp. wrecked car in alley, one w blue evidence marker. Anyone figure out what blue number was marking?

 

[katydid23]

I don't see it that way at all. Right now, I see a parent who's child was killed and she wants to know what happened. There is no blame yet. Asking for an investigation isn't the same as blaming. It is about finding the truth. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. If she was asking for charges and for those officers arrested, I would agree with you. There is nothing wrong with what the parents are doing.

The attorney she hired is known for bringing huge lawsuits against Law Enforcement. I think we all know where this is heading.

ETA:


http://denver.cbslocal.com/tag/qusair-mohamedbhai/
Denver City Council Approves Record Settlement
The City Council on Monday approved the largest settlement in Denver history for a former jail inmate who accused sheriff’s deputies of abusing him and looking the other way as other inmates attacked him.
08/05/2014



City Reaches Settlement With 4 Women In Denver Diner Police Incident
The city of Denver on Monday approved a big payout to four women who were roughed up by police four years ago.
09/24/2013

 

[CoolJ]

BBM

I don't think he has said he does not know how he was injured. They know he was run into by the car. The question is whether the shots came before or after. The whole thing was just split seconds in duration. And I don't think it matters what came first. Because the car had to be headed in the cops direction, to it would never have hit him , even if she was shot first.

I agree that it doesn't really matter what came first. What matters is why the cops started shooting. If this were my daughter you better believe I would want a full independent investigation to find the answer to that. And I don't feel I would be blaming anyone of anything by asking for that. IMO

 

[katydid23]

I agree that it doesn't really matter what came first. What matters is why the cops started shooting. If this were my daughter you better believe I would want a full independent investigation to find the answer to that. And I don't feel I would be blaming anyone of anything by asking for that. IMO

If my teen girl had stolen a car, AGAIN, and was driving it around on her suspended license, and tried to run from the cops when they caught up to her---I would not be blaming the cops, I would be blaming myself. Why was she even out driving around after just being released for a previous stolen car and losing her driving privileges? Mine would have been IN OUR HOUSE, no excuses given.

The parents could not control her erratic behavior, but now they plan to sue the city government for millions, because the cops couldn't control her either.

 

[nrdsb4]

I agree that it doesn't really matter what came first. What matters is why the cops started shooting. If this were my daughter you better believe I would want a full independent investigation to find the answer to that. And I don't feel I would be blaming anyone of anything by asking for that. IMO

Have you seen a quote or something that gives you reason to believe she was blaming the cops for anything?

Yes, CoolJ, I have. Not addressing whether or not this shooting was justified or criminal, just responding to the comments above. It's clear from this quote that the mother "blames" the cops for criminal wrong doing.

"Now we are going to start to mobilize because I don't want the death of my daughter to go without punishment," said Rosales in Spanish.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/01/28/jessie-hernandez-shooting-criminal-record/22496651/

You don't want someone "punished" if you don't blame them for what happened.

 

[Woodland]

BBM
Not necessarily. Maybe he did not fire until she was right up on him, and in that case, the bullet could be on the side of the car.

I am not sure what you think happened. Are you thinking the cops just walked up to a car full of kids and shot one girl in the head, for no reason?

Bullets go in straight lines, if I'm not mistaken.

Fwiw, beginning to think this teen was given the opportunity to flee, took it and was shot - the chances that LE knew who was at the wheel are pretty good, since one of her friends lived in one of the houses accessible from the alley where the incident occurred and the drive was known to police. Another issue is, imo, there is no mention by LE or the witness in the car that a police vehicle was approaching from the front, blocking her path. Imo, the police vehicle in the pic shown parked in front of the car inside the police tape, arrived after the shooting - it's off to one side. Looks placed after the fact to me.

This is my opinion based on pics, what has been said and what has been retracted. Others of course can view the scene differently.