CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #19

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  • #881
Can you expand a little on this? I'm definitely interested but not entirely sure what you mean. I know a lot of charismatic people who do that. But I was approached by a strange guy in a thrift store very recently who tried to engage me in a long and random conversation about language, of all things. I was mostly bemused, and eventually just kind of cut him off, but all along it was obvious that he was trying to get me to 'follow' his conversational 'lead' and was impatient when I extemporized or went off what was obviously his internal script. ("Yes, actually, I do know what 'romance language' means and that it doesn't have anything to do with romance novels".)

Sorry, should have clarified. I'm speaking to remarks concerning intimidation of the listener or potential victim, or remarks about actual criminal behavior. I understand what you're saying, but mere charismatic people don't have stories of victimizing others to tell.
 
  • #882
Off topic but once back in the 80's there was a guy driving up and down W.23rd where I lived, now that's not unusual given where I lived and it was the 80's. But something about the way he drove and the way he would pull over and stare at people come and go, then swiftly drive off. One day I was outside with a camera another artist gave me in the building, I had seen this guy and I walked behind his car and took a photo of the license plate. Man I had guts because I think I would be too scared of retaliation now. It was with a polaroid camera, and I took it up to my apt and showed my mom. I convinced her he was weird and something wasn't right. She called the DMV and the LE. We later found out that this guy was picking up the prostitutes that were still in that area and killing them. I don't know what his name was coined, it was the 80's and NYC but I'm sure someone can find it. It was a white car, white man probably about late 20's or early 30's. He reminded me of what I knew then as a "speed freak". I could never do that now though, I would be frightened to be attacked.

I have to say I get a lil' weirded out when I read how anyone that's an introvert (oh and this isn't directed towards anything you said btw) is seen as "weird". My youngest child is high functioning and no one would know unless I told them but he has Aspergers. He has socializing issues, plays minecraft and has a good time, he's great in school but has 1 friend. He's a sweet awesome kid but he just doesn't bode well with people. He likes to read and be by himself. He's a helper and likes to do environmental and animal rights things but people just bug him out. And I end up mumbling to myself all the time, lol I think it's a mom thing because we are so used to no one listening to us anyway ;)

Thanks AstroKitty. These smart phones these days and the amount of time I'm on mine, I'm sure no one would notice. Lol a Polaroid is pretty gutsy! Good for you :)
 
  • #883
I don't know about his connection to Anime but my teenager loves Anime. He is also considered weird, different and quiet to his peers. He really doesn't have many friends, either. And he is a huge gamer...
I guess it is frustrating to me to read the post about AS being a loner and outsider who liked gaming so that must be why he turned into a killer because that means there is something terribly wrong with him. It makes me think people are going to look at my kid a little funny for now on.
My son has Asperger's which accounts for some of his quirky behaviors but there is a lot of other kids out there who are described in that way and they don't harm anyone.
I know it's silly for me to be bothered by it but I can't help it.
That sounds like you could be describing my son. I was told that he met the criteria for both high functioning autism and asperger's, but whatever you call it, he has a PDD. He has very few friends, and those he has have been in his life since about 2nd or 3rd grade (he's almost 30 now).

I haven't really commented much on the anime gamer aspect of this case because to me its not a factor in what made AS do what he's done. I, and those posters who are discussing it, don't hold the opinion that his liking of anime or gaming are indicators of a disturbed or murderous psyche. Rather they see them as indicators of his aloneness, his distancing himself from others and simply additional indicators for this individual.

Anime, gaming, violent movies,music,tc do not ceate monsters, they simply allow an already disturbed individual to hide within fantasy and avoid th real life rlationships and consequences that come with being a part od reality.

Great escapism for most, but for an already disturbed,disjointed mind they could hold a dfiferent apeal and affect.

Autism and asperbergers specifically, are much beter understood nowadays than in the past. I don't think you need worry about anyone labelling your son as a future killer, or weird or creepy.
I hope you're right. My son went through it when he was in school, and people still say it about him now. He knows he's different, and it really bothers him. He doesn't really know what other people expect of him, so he has a severe social phobia.

I have to say that I think AS has been another big loss to the world because of what he's done. It's not as bad as the loss of Jessica, but this young man could have done so much in life with his brains, I feel bad about that loss too. He does sound to me like someone with Asperger's Syndrome, but luckily not a typical person with it. The isolation/aloofness, high intelligence with low social skills, obsession with interests, even the stare. It's almost impossible for my son to make eye contact most of the time (especially with strangers), but there are times when he ends up staring at a person without even realizing he's doing it. It is a rather "piercing" stare because he isn't really looking at the person, they just happen to be in line with where his eyes are pointed, if that makes any sense.
 
  • #884
Absolutely agree. Nothing at this point indicates that he is a "collector", into "necrophilia" or anything else that suggests that this was anything but a very sick kid who acted on impulse and tried to cover up his actions.

Well, what is your operational definition of 'indicates'? There really is data about the profession of necrophiliacs, and mortuary science is a prime one. We know that this kid -- who dismembered a young girl and kept some of her remains at his house after the disposal of the rest of them -- wanted to be a mortuary scientist in a few years.

Of all the possible necrophiliacs in the world (there are many peaceful ones), I'd expect a mortuary science student who murdered, mutilated and kept a girl's body to top my list of possible fits :D
 
  • #885
I was running late today. On my way out of my car and into a client's apartment, I broke the bottom of my disposable cup and iced tea began to go everywhere. Instead of dumping it, I put the cup under my tire to come back and get it later when I had time to find a garbage. I looked around to make sure no one was watching to think I was littering. I saw no one.

When I came back, my cup was on my windshield. Someone saw me.

How did this guy abduct Jessica, do what he did with her, dispose of her parts, her backpack, and go about life with no one seeing him. Or his car. No one. How does that even happen?
 
  • #886
"I've read a few news articles about the arrest and they say, " He will be charged with two counts of first-degree murder as well as kidnapping charges. His first court appearance will be Thursday at 8 a.m. MT (10 a.m. ET)."

Is this a misprint or is he being charged for another murder?

Also, if it wasn't for his mother turning him in, was he even on the police radar as a suspect?
 
  • #887
My heart aches for Jessica's mom and all that she has, is and will be going through. I've come to the conclusion, that grieving the death of a child is a life long sentence itself. I lost my daughter very suddenly and very tragically, but if I had to heap on top of all that the cruelty of what this young man has done to this little girl - who had her WHOLE life ahead of her, I honestly don't know that I could handle it.

When I think back shock was a blessing in disguise. I'll always remember the church bells ringing during the presser..... may God comfort all those who mourn.
 
  • #888
He's being charged as an adult. Colorado law allows for this under certain circumstances, which include consideration of the type of offense and the extent of any prior criminal history. The law intends this allowance for a reason.

Being 17 didn't hinder him from being fully prepared to commit an organized brutal murder that involved dismemberment of his victim and the hauling of the victim's torso to one area, the hiding of other remains in the same home in which his mother and sibling reside, some serious clean-up somewhere along the way, and the neat depositing of the victim's personal belongings. Whether he's telling the truth about how and when he actually killed this child or not, he made a series of decisions over a period of time that, from where I'm sitting, are not a product of off the cuff adolescent reasoning.

He spent time on this crime. He found ways to not only find and abduct a victim, subdue her, tie her (this means he had a means to do so at his immediate disposal), dismember her body, separate parts he wanted to dispose of from parts he wanted to keep in his close proximity, he folded articles of clothing, placed them in the victim's pack, and left it upright on a residential sidewalk where it was sure to be noticed. Note, he didn't toss her backpack with items she had in it, as the pack existed when he encountered her - rather, he controlled what LE found in that pack and how it appeared when found. Putting clothing only he could have removed from the victim in the pack that was part of the LE description of what the public should be on alert for is, in my opinion, a thoughtfully considered behavior. A profiler, whose remarks were in MSM news articles, said it sent the message, 'I did this, I'm the one you're looking for.'

He's been described in the MSM by a friend as being "arrogant" and he was also described as "brilliant." He confessed to his mother, then confessed again to LE in some detail, yet, in my view, either told a tale that isn't entirely plausible, or, the police aren't filling in all the blanks just yet. It makes no sense to me that he simply grabbed a kid, quick hog-tied her in the car, then immediately strangled her, then transported the torso (where's the part about how she ended up "not intact"?) to the dump site, dropped off the backpack on a sidewalk, standing it up, then went home and hid the rest of her remains in the crawlspace. Just like that? Boom?

And if he did kill her that quickly, in my view, it was because he ultimately wanted a body to control and perform further acts of brutality on for his own enjoyment, and that requires goal setting and a highly organized skill set.
Respectfully shortened and bbm.
It makes sense if he has a paraphilia (and most will have more than one paraphilia). He might not have been "interested" in a live victim. He might also be delusional and obsessed with dismembering someone.
 
  • #889
I really expect to find that there is a history of animal dismemberment by AS...

And possibly even arson...

But animal cruelty... 99.99999%

JMO

This is what I've been thinking, that a history of animal abuse will be exposed. I suspect this is his first human kill. Just because of his age, but I could be wrong. I bet they find lots of animal bones around his home though.
 
  • #890
Colorado doubles up because one is the murder and the other is the intent to cause harm or something. Someone already explained this regarding James Holmes.
 
  • #891
  • #892
Anime was mentioned earlier. Does anyone know anymore on that? There is a seriously dark side to Anime.

I'm more referring to the child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 side of anime, that is definitely out there.

I don't know about his connection to Anime but my teenager loves Anime. He is also considered weird, different and quiet to his peers. He really doesn't have many friends, either. And he is a huge gamer...

I guess it is frustrating to me to read the post about AS being a loner and outsider who liked gaming so that must be why he turned into a killer because that means there is something terribly wrong with him. It makes me think people are going to look at my kid a little funny for now on.

My son has Asperger's which accounts for some of his quirky behaviors but there is a lot of other kids out there who are described in that way and they don't harm anyone.

I know it's silly for me to be bothered by it but I can't help it.

I feel I can see both perspectives here as my teenage son is a total zombie killing gamer as well as loves anime.. But yet I dont get at all offended(imo mainly due to the fact that the questions and comments re:gaming and anime are not imo intended to be offensive, judgemental, etc) the fact is whether people like it or not there is some pretty bad chit in both violent games and really bad chit in the dark side of anime..those are facts, period they are not judgements about any of of our children that are big time gamers or lovers of anime..the fact exists that there is a reason for concern imo... No one is saying or indicating that our children who are big time gamers or lovers of anime need to kept an eye on cuz they may turn into a sick, deviant individual like ARS...thats not being even implied or alluded to in the least..

I fully agree with katydid's opinion on the desensitizing that occurs from the excessively violent games that many kids are exposed to..imo some may not want to believe that but imo its the Gods honest truth..now neither katy nor I are prudish, over bearing individuals who freak out about games, movies, etc..but rather are just aware of what the extreme violence of games and such POTENTIALLY CAN DO TO IMPRESSIONABLE YOUNG MINDS.. For me I believe that as a parent its my job to limit my childs gaming of the zombie killing that if allowed to my child would play 24/7.. There sadly are children who are allowed to play 24/7, along with completely immersed in the extreme violence of movies and unsupervised internet access..this without a doubt will absolutely desensitize even the best of kids if allowed the total immersion into these types media that a child without guidelines, boundaries, and supervision are very likely to do.. Does it mean your child will be a serial killer?..no, but regardless imo the child does suffer negative impacts from it..

These are not offensive judgements that are being made here wrt to gaming, anime, etc.. They are honest discussions about the very real dangers and negative effects that any impressionable young person is going to unfortunately have with unhealthy immersion into these medias..

As far as what sarx is speaking about imo she is not talking about the mostly benign anime that the majority of our teenagers love..but rather the very dark and very real existence of anime 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 including pedophilia, incest, and beastiality just to name a couple.. For any who do not believe or doubt or even think that what im speaking of is exaggerated I suggest you simply one time go to your google search box(WITHOUT THE SAFE SEARCH SETTINGS ON) and simply type into that search box just the word "ANIME" .. I can promise you within those very first google results you will have a link to ANIME 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 THAT INCLUDES PEDOPHILIA, INCEST, BEASTIALITY..its very much there and its very much dark and poses a danger to our impressionable youth..

I informed my son of it before he got introduced to it by his peers..sadly that type chit exists and is all around our childrens peers and I wanted him to know ahead of time what type dark perversion that existed in the anime world..

These extremely negative facets of what is our children's entertainment outlets very much exists and when there is an adolescent such as ASR that is already predispositioned to many different factors due to possibly genetics, due to a violent, unstable environment within which he was raised...when adding to that these extremely dark, violent, perversions that are very much alive and well in media such as gaming and anime.. The negative impacts imo are absolutely explosive..

It is this that is the basis for which these topics are broached here at ws in a case such as this.. It is absolutely NOT brought up to judge or point fingers at those of us whose kids happen to love gaming and anime.. Thats just not what is going on here.. The media exists..imo its absolutely a relevant topic in this case with an adolescent brutal murderer and for it to be taken as offensive or judgemental just is not what is at all meant by those who have broached these subjects..

All jmo from a momma whose teenage son is an avid gamer of killing zombies and a huge fan of anime...
 
  • #893
ITA, I don't care what's in his psyche. He needs to be put down like the evil dog he is. If people could have visual of what he did to that poor little girl, see it for how it happened, they would expect no less. I'm so tired of victims getting left behind, because they can't be seen anymore. The killer is seen and people want to feel sorry for him, he doesn't deserve pity. If we wouldn't want to have him in our homes ten years from now, around us or our children, why would anyone want him back out to do this to someone else?

I do have some sort of pity for people like him. But, that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't pay dearly for his crime.
 
  • #894
She, and all of his friends, should be given time to properly journey through the stages of grief. I agree, counseling would be a benefit as she travels this road.

I think the girlfriend is an ex girlfriend. She dated him back in 8th, 9th grade, he was her first kiss, etc. she said she had not seen him in 2 years. She met him at a place for Christian teenagers.

I don't think the girl is in denial, I think she is just shocked that he changed so much. But a lot can happen to someone between 14-17.

I think if anyone thought back to the first boy/girl they first kissed that person is always special to you. And then to find out they did this, I think her reaction is entirely appropriate.

The pictures on Instagram show a girl. I am not sure if that is a current girlfriend or what. But the girl in the news article on 9 news was the ex girlfriend from 2 years ago
 
  • #895
"I've read a few news articles about the arrest and they say, " He will be charged with two counts of first-degree murder as well as kidnapping charges. His first court appearance will be Thursday at 8 a.m. MT (10 a.m. ET)."

Is this a misprint or is he being charged for another murder?

Also, if it wasn't for his mother turning him in, was he even on the police radar as a suspect?
I have read that on several sites too. It makes me wonder what LE found in the crawl space.
 
  • #896
I think this was brought up earlier, but wasn't there a news report that he used to play capture the flag and games with the neighborhood kids? This isn't antisocial behavior, IMHO this was absolutely planned, I just can't wrap my head around the 22 y/o and a little girl. I also believe he did worse to her than what he admits. He obviously cannot be trusted so why would we just take him at his word of the accounts that happened. I think he took more time than he is admitting with her, and did unspeakable things. The look in his eye, I've seen that look before, it scares me. JMO though.
 
  • #897
Thanks AstroKitty. These smart phones these days and the amount of time I'm on mine, I'm sure no one would notice. Lol a Polaroid is pretty gutsy! Good for you :)

Gutsy are stupid, not too sure lol. No idea if helped solved the case or anything but they did come take the photograph from me. I'll have to ask my mum about it, I'm sure she remembers.
 
  • #898
In this article...AS waived his rights... and made a confession...

Could this be reversed in the future.. on grounds that he was "having a bad hair day", or whatever other excuses perps use when they lawyer up?

TIA for any legal info you sleuthers can provide...

I must admit I have issues with this....

Unfortunately he could still plead not guilty, or NG for reason of insanity (if they have that in CO). Confessing doesn't mean he can't decide to plead not guilty and take his chances. Hoping he won't put the family through this, not to mention the huge expenses involved in this kind of a trial.
 
  • #899
Colorado doubles up because one is the murder and the other is the intent to cause harm or something. Someone already explained this regarding James Holmes.
Thank you.

Sigg was also charged with two criminal attempts, one for kidnapping and one for murder. An attempt = a murder charge.
 
  • #900
He's being charged as an adult. Colorado law allows for this under certain circumstances, which include consideration of the type of offense and the extent of any prior criminal history. The law intends this allowance for a reason.

Being 17 didn't hinder him from being fully prepared to commit an organized brutal murder that involved dismemberment of his victim and the hauling of the victim's torso to one area, the hiding of other remains in the same home in which his mother and sibling reside, some serious clean-up somewhere along the way, and the neat depositing of the victim's personal belongings. Whether he's telling the truth about how and when he actually killed this child or not, he made a series of decisions over a period of time that, from where I'm sitting, are not a product of off the cuff adolescent reasoning.

He spent time on this crime. He found ways to not only find and abduct a victim, subdue her, tie her (this means he had a means to do so at his immediate disposal), dismember her body, separate parts he wanted to dispose of from parts he wanted to keep in his close proximity, he folded articles of clothing, placed them in the victim's pack, and left it upright on a residential sidewalk where it was sure to be noticed. Note, he didn't toss her backpack with items she had in it, as the pack existed when he encountered her - rather, he controlled what LE found in that pack and how it appeared when found. Putting clothing only he could have removed from the victim in the pack that was part of the LE description of what the public should be on alert for is, in my opinion, a thoughtfully considered behavior. A profiler, whose remarks were in MSM news articles, said it sent the message, 'I did this, I'm the one you're looking for.'

He's been described in the MSM by a friend as being "arrogant" and he was also described as "brilliant." He confessed to his mother, then confessed again to LE in some detail, yet, in my view, either told a tale that isn't entirely plausible, or, the police aren't filling in all the blanks just yet. It makes no sense to me that he simply grabbed a kid, quick hog-tied her in the car, then immediately strangled her, then transported the torso (where's the part about how she ended up "not intact"?) to the dump site, dropped off the backpack on a sidewalk, standing it up, then went home and hid the rest of her remains in the crawlspace. Just like that? Boom?

And if he did kill her that quickly, in my view, it was because he ultimately wanted a body to control and perform further acts of brutality on for his own enjoyment, and that requires goal setting and a highly organized skill set.

I worked with some scary people while doing casework in a non-profit social services environment, and what linked the sociopaths together and separated them from the rest of my clients, was the desire to talk about things that interested them in a manner that manipulated the listener and drove the conversation in a direction that was satisfying to the storyteller. On the surface, it appears this individual gave it all up because he was essentially already caught, and that may be so, but at another level, I don't buy that he's finished with exerting his control over what LE does and believes about him. He may be telling most of the truth, but I suspect he is enjoying feeling some measure of control over the disclosure of some of the details of what he's done. Frankly, his remark about "distracting" LE says to me he's been closely watching the coverage since its been theorized in the media that the backpack could be a distraction. His claim sounds like a manipulative parroting of that. Just my opinion.

For a predator, it's not just about the killing. It's about the savoring of the entire crime and re-living it, and conveying information in a controlled manner that is always about drawing attention to the perpetrator and his 'power' or skill. It's never about the victim or the families or anyone else. Victims are simply pawns in a predator's endgame.

He may only be 17, but what we know so far about him strikes me as someone who's proud of his accomplishments. He was described as "cooperative" with the police after he turned himself in at his home.

This individual also had the nerve to try and overcome an adult woman with a chemical soaked rag and he wasn't deterred by his failure. He simply sorted out a weaker victim in his culling of the herd.

In my view, he's no less cunning or tactically shrewd than any other predator simply because he happens to be in an adolescent body.

I think your post should be in the prosecution's closing statement to the jury in the event there is a trial which I don't know because he confessed to police.
 
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