CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[Elley Mae]

I completely agree. I think the fact that his mother provided care for the baby is a bigger factor than is being discussed.

Eta yeah big red flag.

Been thinking it since it came out she babysat & that he lived w/mom.

 

[enelram]

Have we seen any confirmation of how attached his mom or PF
was to the baby? We can all project how we'd feel about losing
control of the baby but maybe it wasn't that way. Could it be
they took care of baby because it was expected but really felt
put out and considered having a little one around a PITA.
Round the clock care, dirty ,wet diapers and crying baby can
wear on a person's nerves if they aren't emotionally bonded.
I just question if we aren't projecting too much. Thoughts?

 

[Charlot123]

Have we seen any confirmation of how attached his mom or PF
was to the baby? We can all project how we'd feel about losing
control of the baby but maybe it wasn't that way. Could it be
they took care of baby because it was expected but really felt
put out and considered having a little one around a PITA.
Round the clock care, dirty ,wet diapers and crying baby can
wear on a person's nerves if they aren't emotionally bonded.
I just question if we aren't projecting too much. Thoughts?

I think we shall find it our. Grandma SF looks not as much old to me as hard and strong-willed. The square jaw. She looks like a person who wore the pants in the family and had an uneasy life. JMO. Her kids have achieved, the younger one stays with her, but it is dull on a farm, and she has arthritis, or so it seems. But she raised kids, she has maternal instinct, and suddenly, a grandkid comes. Yes, diapers (big deal). But feeding the baby is a bonding thing. But the baby is totally helpless without her. And when the babies start smiling, all caretakers usually bond. Especially an old woman.

I may be wrong but I feel she did. Her relationship with Patrick is another thing, and I suspect whatever psychopathology there is, exists between the mom and the son (he depends on her, she probably pesters him). But the baby gets her love.

 

[Charlot123]

It just hit me. We have discussed Kelsey’s life insurance, and no one asked about grandma F’s will. Whom did she leave her farms to?

There might be very interesting variants here.

I never thought that PF would kill to avoid child support, but he’d strangle for his farm. What did he say to journalists? Get off my property?

 

[The Farm]

A little off topic but there are a lot of criminals spending their first Christmas Eve in prison or jail tonight...just imagine what memories they are dealing with. This brings me some solace.

Reading over what I have missed last night and saw this, was thinking the same thing.

Off Topic/ what is CW thinking this morning, no kids gleefully opening their presents as happy as could be running all over the place, playing with their new toys all excited, SW loving every minute of it,no big feast on the table, no nothing except a prison cell.

PF same thing, he will not see his adorable daughter as he sits in his holding cell wondering his demise.

What are they thinking this Christmas morning?

 

[Charlot123]

Reading over what I have missed last night and saw this, was thinking the same thing.

Off Topic/ what is CW thinking this morning, no kids gleefully opening their presents as happy as could be running all over the place, playing with their new toys all excited, SW loving every minute of it,no big feast on the table, no nothing except a prison cell.

PF same thing, he will not see his adorable daughter as he sits in his holding cell wondering his demise.

What are they thinking this Christmas morning?

CW does not think about Xmas gifts. He is thinking about empanadas and if he feels guilty, it is because he spoiled the life of “poor NK”. But jail is a closed system, perhaps he merely thinks of surviving there.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Uh....how could he possibly plead insanity as long as he doesn't want anything to do with medical doctors or mental health personnel? And the wish for a polygraph with our favorite polygrapher? That ain't gonna happen.
This guy is as strange as CW. There are just some people who can do total silence. I have a brother like that. CW on the other hand....during his porch interview, I just kept saying to the TV (there I go talking to the TV again) shut up, shut UP, SHUT UP!!!

Those documents are being misinterpreted. It is a Notice that he is not going to waive his right to privacy of any of his past medical records and he does NOT consent to them obtaining his past medical or psychiatric records.

 

[Charlot123]

Those documents are being misinterpreted. It is a Notice that he is not going to waive his right to privacy of any of his past medical records and he does NOT consent to them obtaining his past medical or psychiatric records.

So maybe he was examined, before, but refused to take his meds? It happens.

 

[Esma]

Praying for Kelsey’s baby and family. What a terrible nightmare for them. May their faith support them thru this and justice for their beautiful Kelsey be served.

 

[NanZDrew]

I think we shall find it our. Grandma SF looks not as much old to me as hard and strong-willed. The square jaw. She looks like a person who wore the pants in the family and had an uneasy life. JMO. Her kids have achieved, the younger one stays with her, but it is dull on a farm, and she has arthritis, or so it seems. But she raised kids, she has maternal instinct, and suddenly, a grandkid comes. Yes, diapers (big deal). But feeding the baby is a bonding thing. But the baby is totally helpless without her. And when the babies start smiling, all caretakers usually bond. Especially an old woman.

I may be wrong but I feel she did. Her relationship with Patrick is another thing, and I suspect whatever psychopathology there is, is between mom and son (he depends on her, she probably pesters him). But the baby gets her love.

I thought she might have had a back injury. Lots of nurses injure their backs from lifting heavy patients.

 

[Charlot123]

I thought she might have had a back injury. Lots of nurses injure their backs from lifting heavy patients.

You are probably right, and if she has, it is a serious one. She has a real trouble walking, it seems.

 

[InvSmith]

Well, I got caught posting in the middle of a thread move........ I think those dogs "hit on something" where LE dug that big hole near the Frazee family's parking areas....MOO

Does the ground freeze in CO this time of year? I get the impression KB was killed at her home transported to his mom's ranch and moved again to Idaho. I do not think the police seized a horse trailer but that was a good point raised last thread.

 

[Charlot123]

Praying for Kelsey’s baby and family. What a terrible nightmare for them. May their faith support them thru this and justice for their beautiful Kelsey be served.

I merely wish that she is found. That there is closure for her family. Because PF is, in a way, crazier than CW, he won’t tell. But there is a method to his craziness, and I wish the police and FBI find it.

 

[Charlot123]

Does the ground freeze in CO this time of year? I get the impression KB was killed at her home transported to his mom's ranch and moved again to Idaho. I do not think the police seized a horse trailer but that was a good point raised last thread.

Fall Average Frost and Freeze Dates

Theoretically, it may. However, given that even permafrost is melting these days, not sure how it was in CO this year. Judging by the Safeway film, she was dressed lightly, so the weather probably was warm.

 

[1mtroyal]

I see two scenarios as to where the phone is. If the phone calls are meant to be a diversion, the person with the phone would keep the phone to make more "diversion calls" in the future. PF needs one now badly, but he was arrested now and cannot talk to the individual who has Kelsey's phone. The other scenario is that the phone was ditched since it is incriminating evidence. I assume law enforcement is working on Christmas day (today). Since NBC says there are search warrants going on in Idaho, they would be on private property since search warrants are not needed on public land such as barrow pits. IMO

 

[scdiv]

I think so too, and I thought that was a possibility or that she wrecked off the road in an area where she could not been seen.

But I could not get past both her cars being home. If she had gone off with someone else, then they had to be missing too.

That is the glaring mistake in this -- IMO.

If he could have driven one of her vehicles into a remote mountainous area and rolled it off the side of the mountain somewhere he would have been in much better shape.

BUT he would have been forced to hike back home, and the time necessary prob. created its own set of problems.

To me, the biggest problem was her cars being home.

Yea, these genius guys keep forgetting the whole, "My wife/fiance/girlfriend went to visit a friend/her family" doesn't work so well when their cars are LEFT IN THE DRIVEWAY.

Have we seen any confirmation of how attached his mom or PF
was to the baby? We can all project how we'd feel about losing
control of the baby but maybe it wasn't that way. Could it be
they took care of baby because it was expected but really felt
put out and considered having a little one around a PITA.
Round the clock care, dirty ,wet diapers and crying baby can
wear on a person's nerves if they aren't emotionally bonded.
I just question if we aren't projecting too much. Thoughts?

Hmmm. I just think if the baby is seen as such a burden and nuisance, then why kill the baby's mother and become a single parent? Ditch the kid on the mother and leave her to find alternate child care if that's the issue. Unless the guy pulls a CW and annihilates the entire family, then he's still left with the child, all the child care, and the entire financial burden all on his own, with no one taking weekends or contributing to expenses in any way. So if he doesn't have emotions and finds the child a pain, I don't see how he would "win" in this situation to kill off the mother. Just pawn the child off on the mother and be a deadbeat dad.

But it's so hard for me to speculate his motive without having any sense of their true relationship or how he feels about being a father. Was it simply to have control? Did he think KB was leaving town and he really cared about her taking the baby? Was it child support fears if she took full custody? It just makes no sense.

 

[K9Enzo]

Have we seen any confirmation of how attached his mom or PF
was to the baby? We can all project how we'd feel about losing
control of the baby but maybe it wasn't that way. Could it be
they took care of baby because it was expected but really felt
put out and considered having a little one around a PITA.
Round the clock care, dirty ,wet diapers and crying baby can
wear on a person's nerves if they aren't emotionally bonded.
I just question if we aren't projecting too much. Thoughts?

You make a good point about the projecting part.

To be honest, some of the comments in these threads, about this case, are so odd to me.

There is an enormous amount of romanticizing the life of the poor victim. The core of who she was will be forever lost. I’m not sure how she would feel about the neat box she’s been put into here.

The non stop talk about the small child in this case, I find incredibly off putting.

PF, well he deserves whatever speculation comes his way about who he is. The rational are trying to figure out the mind of the irrational.

Although, there’s a underlying degree of men bashing going on here by some. That makes me feel kind of bad for the guys in this group. I’m a woman and noticed it’s starting to gain more traction here.

I hope for KB to be recovered and returned to her family. For them to find peace, one day. KB certainly did not deserve this.....

 

[bestill]

She wants to look like an old lady who needs someone to care for her IMO.

Needy?

 

[enelram]

I thought she might have had a back injury. Lots of nurses injure their backs from lifting heavy patients.

Yes, she does have trouble walking and just getting around. This
is another reason I question how much she really enjoyed taking care of a rambunctious toddler. 64 yrs. old, physical limitations
and a 15 mo. old = lotta effort for a person her age and condition.

 

[susiQ]

I definitely can see that!! This makes a lot of sense to me.

Agree. Only thing I doubt is that he told them the child wasn't his, given he didn't harm her.