CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[Savmom]

Either auto sent or it was done for PF once they found the phone and he requested their help

Might have missed this somewhere but has it ever been confirmed the texts were actually sent from her phone?

I know they said the phone pinged in ID but I cannot find any reference that clearly states they believe 100% the texts originated from her phone.

Just curious, sorry if this has been discussed previously (playing nurse to 3 sick family members since Christmas Eve)

 

[justpeachy22]

But why not get rid of the rolls?! If he went back?!

Maybe I’m off the mark here, but I don’t think a guy, or anyone for that matter, is thinking ‘Ok now that I’ve finished with all of that, I should get rid of her cooking on the stove here.’ I don’t think the rolls will present any dna as some have suggested, I think the dna is on that Sheetrock that they cut out and took with them

 

[otto]

Oh I think Oedipus complex is all over this! He is thirty years old! I have this feeling they met online and she didn't know about mamma on the ranch until she arrived to find her living in the home she thought was his! Now that's scary. I wonder if he killed for the mother.

We know that they met online. That has been widely published. This odd obsession that he has some sort of abnormal thing about his mother is a bit over the top.

She moved to Colorado because she was in love. She found her own place to live, got a job, and when she discovered that she was pregnant, she had the child and bought a home. PF's mother, by all accounts, has done nothing more than assist PF with child care.

 

[NanZDrew]

Susi

PF is a narcissist. There are many varieties. Yes, he needed to hurt her. Likely because she began to see through his lies and realized the relationship was going nowhere fast. He was dragging his feet on making a solid commitment to KB. She was maintaining the status quo until she could figure things out. Narcs lie, a lot. When the relationship is "fresh" they "love bomb" you. Hard to resist. You put them on a pedestal which is their "supply", in essence YOUR love is their supply. Your love is their life blood. They are vampires. Truly. They will suck the life right out of you even if they don't kill you. Kelsey "woke up" and realized her knight in shining armour was a fraud. This process takes a while, and when PF began to feel she was going off him, or perhaps even told him she'd had enough, she wanted more from the relationship, that's when it all went south. A narc needs supply and she wasn't interested in enabling him like his momma. She's a self made woman. A pilot with her commercial licence, no less. No small feat. When a narc feels rejected that's when things get really ugly. I think PF is the brooding type, more than the fly of the handle narc, but both can be equally as dangerous. He needed someone to put him back on a pedestal. Maybe he found his next victim at a rodeo in Idaho, stud that he thinks he is. Starts love bombing her and there he is, back on someone's pedestal getting his "supply", full of hate and resentment for the one who "found him out." And then there's control and that's where baby K comes in and the motive to take KB out of the picture.

Like you, my heart aches for little K because no matter how wonderful her life will be with her her mother's family, she has to grow up knowing her father did this heinous act to someone she needed.

Susi, I see you've known a Narc or two. Great description. When they realize you see beneath the mask, they despise you. Because she was so successful and goal oriented and he was a dud, I think he felt belittled in her sight which made him hate her even more.

 

[MassGuy]

Might have missed this somewhere but has it ever been confirmed the texts were actually sent from her phone?

I know they said the phone pinged in ID but I cannot find any reference that clearly states they believe 100% the texts originated from her phone.

Just curious, sorry if this has been discussed previously (playing nurse to 3 sick family members since Christmas Eve)

Yeah, the implication has always been that her cellphone sent those text messages.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...-moms-cell-phone-days-after-she-went-missing/

 

[katydid23]

ITA.

- no body
- a consumptive DNA test
- two competing theories of murder
- had to enter KB townhome 3 separate times
- delaying tactics, eg, won't unseal probable cause AW

I smell Swiss cheese.

-no body:

That won't be a problem with the jury if they can prove there was a murder, and explain where the body is.

There is speculation that the body was put in an incinerator. If that is true, then the fact there is no body will not be a problem at trial.

- a consumptive DNA test:

I don't see why that is considered a problem. That happens quite often, when a crime scene was cleaned, but tiny fragments of forensic evidence is found in cracks and crevices.

That is a good thing, not a bad thing, imo. If it is brain matter, it may negate the need to show a dead body to prove there was a murder, for example.

- two competing theories of murder:

They are not really 'competing.' They are very similar, in that it involves the same killer and same victim, involved in the same killing, in the same place and same time.

- had to enter KB townhome 3 separate times:

And? How many times would one expect the detectives and forensics teams to visit the crime scene? I'd expect at least 3, if not more.

As they investigate and interview witnesses, more questions and ideas emerge. That's a natural process.

- delaying tactics, eg, won't unseal probable cause AW:

I don't think it is all that unusual, in cases where others may be involved as accomplices or involved witnesses.


I don't see Swiss Cheese. I see a soufflé, still being cooked, not ready to be revealed yet...

 

[NanZDrew]

Along those lines @CMo3...

PF would have begun thinking about something before 9/1, months before, IMO.

KB moved to the townhouse in May of this year, correct?

She would have had a year-round job at Doss I'm assuming. She may have taken maternity leave, returning to work in January 2018 (baby is born in October 2017).

PF's job(s) were seasonal? Maybe busier in warmer months?

How would they have exchanged the baby? Florissant is 40 min round trip, out of the way from her route to Doss. There must have been a routine. He picks up the baby to take to his mother? From May 2018, on.

What could have given him the idea, in those months, to set her up, take something from her, kill her? IMO his wheels had to have been turning for weeks before 9/1. What got him 'thinking'??

This is what I'm trying to figure out, as well as what the heck "BBM" stands for...

I have wondered if there was significance in the townhome. Perhaps it was a symbol of "I'm moving on. Done waiting on you to make a commitment...done waiting on you to grow up!

 

[otto]

-no body:

That won't be a problem with the jury if they can prove there was a murder, and explain where the body is.

There is speculation that the body was put in an incinerator. If that is true, then the fact there is no body will not be a problem at trial.

- a consumptive DNA test:

I don't see why that is considered a problem. That happens quite often, when a crime scene was cleaned, but tiny fragments of forensic evidence is found in cracks and crevices.

That is a good thing, not a bad thing, imo. If it is brain matter, it may negate the need to show a dead body to prove there was a murder, for example.

- two competing theories of murder:

They are not really 'competing.' They are very similar, in that it involves the same killer and same victim, involved in the same killing, in the same place and same time.

- had to enter KB townhome 3 separate times:

And? How many times would one expect the detectives and forensics teams to visit the crime scene? I'd expect at least 3, if not more.

As they investigate and interview witnesses, more questions and ideas emerge. That's a natural process.

- delaying tactics, eg, won't unseal probable cause AW:

I don't think it is all that unusual, in cases where others may be involved as accomplices or involved witnesses.


I don't see Swiss Cheese. I see a soufflé, still being cooked, not ready to be revealed yet...

Acreages and hobby farms do have burning barrels and incinerators. Teeth sometimes survive the high heat.

 

[GordianKnot]

I've never been so dumbfounded by a case. Usually, info starts rolling in...esp once there's an arrest. I'm having so much trouble with this one!

tt, if you think this one is dumbfounding, you should go have a look at the WS forum on the recent Closs murders/disappearance (parents murdered, 13-year old missing). Now, that one truly is a riddle wrapped up in an enigma.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Yes, it is a root of consumer. I believe what they mean is that the evidence, any tissue, is in such a small amount that it would require all of the evidence be used up in the testing. There would be no evidence left for future testing or storage.

It does not necessarily apply to the amount of the material. Thus, it might be a tiny speck of dry blood or a saliva spot, usually on some cloth, from which you have to lift off DNA. The DNA obtained in this case occasionally, allows for only partial analysis, such as mitochondrial haplotype. However, it might be a badly charred bone, unfit for any other tests but maybe mito DNA. And the researchers are lucky to get even that.

I am less concerned that the material would be destroyed in the result of the testing and more that the DNA they will obtain might be unfit for testing.

 

[MassGuy]

-no body:

That won't be a problem with the jury if they can prove there was a murder, and explain where the body is.

There is speculation that the body was put in an incinerator. If that is true, then the fact there is no body will not be a problem at trial.

- a consumptive DNA test:

I don't see why that is considered a problem. That happens quite often, when a crime scene was cleaned, but tiny fragments of forensic evidence is found in cracks and crevices.

That is a good thing, not a bad thing, imo. If it is brain matter, it may negate the need to show a dead body to prove there was a murder, for example.

- two competing theories of murder:

They are not really 'competing.' They are very similar, in that it involves the same killer and same victim, involved in the same killing, in the same place and same time.

- had to enter KB townhome 3 separate times:

And? How many times would one expect the detectives and forensics teams to visit the crime scene? I'd expect at least 3, if not more.

As they investigate and interview witnesses, more questions and ideas emerge. That's a natural process.

- delaying tactics, eg, won't unseal probable cause AW:

I don't think it is all that unusual, in cases where others may be involved as accomplices or involved witnesses.


I don't see Swiss Cheese. I see a soufflé, still being cooked, not ready to be revealed yet...

Yeah, I’m fully with you on this.

The fact that they have already made an arrest, without even having a body, tells me that they are confident in what they have thus far.

This is highly unusual from what I have seen in similar cases, even ones involving the FBI.

Arrests usually take time, if they ever occur.

I see nothing but strength here, even though we are privy to so little.

He had to have made huge mistakes here, to include solicitation, cell phone information, and forensic evidence.

They feel like they’ve got him, and I get the same impression.

 

[MassGuy]

tt, if you think this one is dumbfounding, you should go have a look at the WS forum on the recent Closs murders/disappearance (parents murdered, 13-year old missing). Now, that one truly is a riddle wrapped up in an enigma.

Yes. That case is the most confounding one I’ve ever seen.

There isn’t a comparison.

 

[otto]

.It does not necessarily apply to the amount of the material. Thus, it might be a tiny speck of dry blood or a saliva spot, usually on some cloth, from which you have to lift off DNA. The DNA obtained in this case occasionally, allows for only partial analysis, such as mitochondrial haplotype. However, it might be a badly charred bone, unfit for any other tests but maybe mito DNA. And the researchers are lucky to get even that.

I am less concerned that the material would be destroyed in the result of the testing and more that the DNA they will obtain might be unfit for testing.

DNA is just circumstantial evidence alongside all the other circumstantial evidence. Some cases are made on DNA evidence alone, and others are common sense based on the rest of the circumstantial evidence.

 

[jewelsmac]

Excellent question. Typically, no.

Except for some exceptions under federal law, one is generally not required to report knowledge of a crime before it takes place. The only exception to this would be if you were aiding an abetting, in which case that would be the charge. For that to happen, though, the person would need to know of the plan, know it's illegal, and encourage the plan with the intention that the crime take place. So in your hypo, Bob would not have done any of these things.

It seems so sad to say it, because in that situation, Bob could potentially have prevented the murder. But he has no legal duty to do so.

Really? Even if you know your friend is going to kill someone, and you say nothing, and it happens. Legally you did not have to tell anyone? How very depressing

 

[jewelsmac]

I have to say, even at this late hour, mindnumbing amount of facts and documents and legal questions. It looks to me like LE and DA are doing an outstanding job. I’m impressed with how thorough they seem to be. Of course we would all like more details to come out, but I like that they’re keeping some things quiet so that it goes well. As someone who watches far too much dateline and ID channel, It seems very often that these cases get bungled in the beginning. These folks seem to be doing it right.

 

[MassGuy]

I have to say, even at this late hour, mindnumbing amount of facts and documents and legal questions. It looks to me like LE and DA are doing an outstanding job. I’m impressed with how thorough they seem to be. Of course we would all like more details to come out, but I like that they’re keeping some things quiet so that it goes well. As someone who watches far too much dateline and ID channel, It seems very often that these cases get bungled in the beginning. These folks seem to be doing it right.

Exactly. When a local law enforcement agency tries to go it alone, especially in a case this (apparently) complex, mistakes are often made.

They reached out for help right away, and we’ve seen the effectiveness of the CBI in the recent Watts Case.

 

[NanZDrew]

Welcome, didyouhearme!

Re: the ring, you make some great points. Apparently, PF did claim that he and KB broke up on Thanksgiving....IMO, if PF does have her ring, perhaps he intended to use the break-up story as the explanation for the fact that the ring was back in his possession? Food for thought, for sure.

Where was the ring picture? I missed it!

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes. That case is the most confusing one I’ve ever seen.

There isn’t a comparison.

MG, THANK YOU for saying that! I am so happy to hear that I'm not the only person who feels that way about that case! I usually am pretty good at sizing situations up, but that one has me pretty bumfuzzled. Hoping LE knows a WHOLE lot more than they're saying in that one!!!!!

 

[cluciano63]

All in the same place, of all over the country?

No connection...all over...just sad.

 

[NanZDrew]

Oedipus?

Lol. The Twitter and social media sites regarding ID.